Breva 1100 starting problem

[RussCo]

Hello hello, Moto Guzzi newbie here. For some odd reason I bought a Breva 1100 ('05) while in the UK for some touring. It has got us around Europe (and back thankfully) but probably 70% of the time when trying to start it, I just get a click and then a few seconds later a 2nd click. I have found that after paddling the gearbox up and down through 1st, neutral, 2nd and back to neutral a few times (sometimes many times) it will then start. Driving me kinda crazy! Is this related to my furious gear lever activities (neutral switch somewhere?) or just a fluke and you guys know what the real problem is?

Thanks, the bike is slowly gaining my love, but this is really a pain.

[Kiwi_Roy]

Hello hello, Moto Guzzi newbie here. For some odd reason I bought a Breva 1100 ('05) while in the UK for some touring. It has got us around Europe (and back thankfully) but probably 70% of the time when trying to start it, I just get a click and then a few seconds later a 2nd click. I have found that after paddling the gearbox up and down through 1st, neutral, 2nd and back to neutral a few times (sometimes many times) it will then start. Driving me kinda crazy! Is this related to my furious gear lever activities (neutral switch somewhere?) or just a fluke and you guys know what the real problem is?

Thanks, the bike is slowly gaining my love, but this is really a pain.

 

I don't know the Breva but I took a look at Carl Alisons drawing, it shows a starter relay (3) that energizes the solenoid in the starter.

The first thing I would do is find the wire from the Relay to the starter and hang a test light or meter from that to ground. This will tell you if it's the starter or the relay. If the relay and the wire is OK the light will go on when you try to start, If it doesn't then you check back the other way. Relay bases have been a problem on the earlier bike.

I assume you have checked the main connections, if not pull the main cables off the battery and give the terminals a scrape, sometimes an oxide layer prevents the current getting through, coat them with petroleum jelly (vaseline) to avoid this.

 

http://guzzitech.com/guzzi007/schematics/2005_Breva_1100.gif

Hope this helps

Roy

[antonio carroccio]

Hello,

 

i have got the same problem with my 1200sport.

I have changed the battery and cleaned the starter and changed the relais and have told this to TLM (Guzzi store in Nijmegen NL) and looks like Moto Guzzi recon this problem. So the mother factory comes with a "condensator" and a diode to connet it at the starter and give him some extra power during the start of engine.

This "condensator" 's still on the way from Italy. I will keep posting.

[RussCo]

Hello hello, Moto Guzzi newbie here. For some odd reason I bought a Breva 1100 ('05) while in the UK for some touring. It has got us around Europe (and back thankfully) but probably 70% of the time when trying to start it, I just get a click and then a few seconds later a 2nd click. I have found that after paddling the gearbox up and down through 1st, neutral, 2nd and back to neutral a few times (sometimes many times) it will then start. Driving me kinda crazy! Is this related to my furious gear lever activities (neutral switch somewhere?) or just a fluke and you guys know what the real problem is?

Thanks, the bike is slowly gaining my love, but this is really a pain.

 

I don't know the Breva but I took a look at Carl Alisons drawing, it shows a starter relay (3) that energizes the solenoid in the starter.

The first thing I would do is find the wire from the Relay to the starter and hang a test light or meter from that to ground. This will tell you if it's the starter or the relay. If the relay and the wire is OK the light will go on when you try to start, If it doesn't then you check back the other way. Relay bases have been a problem on the earlier bike.

I assume you have checked the main connections, if not pull the main cables off the battery and give the terminals a scrape, sometimes an oxide layer prevents the current getting through, coat them with petroleum jelly (vaseline) to avoid this.

 

http://guzzitech.com/guzzi007/schematics/2005_Breva_1100.gif

Hope this helps

Roy

 

Thanks Kiwi Roy

Your assumption that I checked the battery is correct. I initially thought that it must be a battery problem and checked and cleaned the termonals. The selling dealer agreed that this seemed logical and supplied a new one under the used bike 3 month warranty. The problem did not then reappear for 2 days. When it does crank and start it seems perfectly fine.

[RussCo]

Hello,

 

i have got the same problem with my 1200sport.

I have changed the battery and cleaned the starter and changed the relais and have told this to TLM (Guzzi store in Nijmegen NL) and looks like Moto Guzzi recon this problem. So the mother factory comes with a "condensator" and a diode to connet it at the starter and give him some extra power during the start of engine.

This "condensator" 's still on the way from Italy. I will keep posting.

 

Thanks Antonio

That is very interesting. I am not convinced that it is a power problem, but of course hopefully MG themselves know better than I. Can you get your bike to start by moving around in the gearbox as I indicated in my first post on this? Here's another couple of observations that lead me to suspect a gearbox connection somewhere:

- Sometimes the bike will start when in gear with the clutch in, sometimes it will not.

- Sometimes when I have selected neutral, the neutral light is not on but the bike will start.

Strange stuff, and I have to think that this problem has presented itself to other owners, so hopefully there's more feedback to come.

[antonio carroccio]

that story of neutral stuff is not available to me.

The only FUKKING problem is that the bike refuse to start when I need it!!!

1st gear or 2nd etc is also not for me.

Today I have cleaned and greased the massa cable, the bold after the bold for the cover of the starter, 1200sport rijders know what I mean.

Tommorow I will give the bike a chance and got to work with him.

If I have to push it, I will stay calm....

[belfastguzzi]

Starting problems with the newer bikes are now well documented. Seems to be a common problem, although your bike is somewhat older.

My Griso suffers too. Actually, it is me who suffers. Push the starter and often nothing at all happens: sometimes it works after a few more prods. Sometimes it takes minutes, 10 minutes, or once it never started and I had to leave the bike. Ridiculous and infuriating.

The best explanation is voltage drop, on the newer bikes anyway.

I haven't checked the schematics but others say that Guzzi are still continuing with their practice of putting the full current up through the start switch. On the newer bikes, a heavier gauge wire down to the starter becomes a lighter thin wire. Significant voltage drop has been measured, as I understand it.

A solution would be to put in or parallel in a new wire of good gauge.

 

It could be the same thing with Antonio's bike.

[belfastguzzi]

I will stay calm....

 

I doubt it

[luhbo]

BelfastGuzzi once posted an interesting link:

 

http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=16004

 

Does anybody know what happened to him (not to the link ofcourse)?

 

Hubert

[Skeeve]

Is this related to my furious gear lever activities (neutral switch somewhere?) or just a fluke and you guys know what the real problem is?

 

Whether the bike is in neutral or not, it should start w/ the clutch in. These sorts of issues tend to be related to the mandated "safety switches" located at the clutch and on the sidestand. Try hitting both with contact cleaner & working them them to see if you can eliminate any dirt or corrosion that might be causing the intermittent open circuit & see if your luck improves. If it does, you'll know where the problem lies.

 

That said, all modern EFI bikes are now held hostage to their state of battery "wellness;" make certain the battery is fully charged and add in a duplicate ground from the battery directly to the engine cases. Also, Guzzis are notorious for expecting the switches on the handlebar to carry full current loads while grounding through a delicate path via handlebars/triple clamps/grease/headstock bearings/grease/painted frame... The wise Guzzisti makes his own ground path to bypass this mess via a small wire going directly from handlebars to nice bare metal on the frame...

[belfastguzzi]

BelfastGuzzi

 

Does anybody know what happened to him (not to the link ofcourse)?

 

Hubert

Well, this morning I went to an important seminar. It was so boring that I left at lunch time, but not before having lunch:

chicken sandwhich

chicken goujons

mini sausage roll

thing on a stick, with chicken in it

more chicken goujons

coffee

and one or two other things.

Walked back to work

and I'm here now.

Would you like a further update?

[belfastguzzi]

Is this related to my furious gear lever activities (neutral switch somewhere?) or just a fluke and you guys know what the real problem is?

That said, all modern EFI bikes are now held hostage to their state of battery "wellness;"

Skeeve, I agree, but I'm sure that the whole rash of starting problems experienced with the newer bikes is not because of the battery charge itself.

Certainly the wellness of the grounding should be checked and additional provision made. I still need to do that myself.

Also, the additional feed, as in the post above (not the chicken goujon one, the other one). Hubert has kindly re-posted the link.

[luhbo]

The given link was only 2 months old. That's what made me wondering. To prove you're the same you could describe a typical day from two months ago.

 

As an aside, does anyone know whether someone's started a V11 blog so far? Twitter?

 

Hubert

[belfastguzzi]

. To prove you're the same you could describe a typical day from two months ago.

I can't even remember 2 minutes ago!

- unless there are chicken goujons involved.

[IainW]

It's nothing to do with the gear box, messing with the lever just gives the battery a little more time to find a bit of umph. I had the same issue with my 05 Breva 1100, and BelfastGuzzi is right. It's all on here...

This way >>>

 

You need to run a wire from pin 3 on the relay to the +ve terminal on the battery and all your troubles will be gone.