Relocating Fuel Pump

[al_roethlisberger]

So, with my "ingenious" (ah hem ) pod and air-box removal with side-cover retention thing.... I now have the opportunity to relocate the fuel-pump somewhere, say... on top of the spine, to get it away from the heat of the cylinders.

 

There are some questions though.

 

I am planning on mounting the pump on top of the spine, below the filter, where the airbox used to be. There seems to be plenty of room for this, so placement shouldn't be a problem. Although I do have to fabricate some sort of bracket.

 

I plan to orient the pump with the inlet at the bottom, and the output facing up toward the filter. This also should be a "good thing" as it is the same factory orientation with which the pump was mounted before, and keeps the inlet at about the same or lower level as the petcock, which should allow for proper head pressure, gravity flow, priming, etc.

 

Here's my question though... Since the pump will be directly below the filter, I plan to turn the filter around so that it's input is almost nose-to-nose with the output of the pump. Will the now inverted(inlet bottom, outlet top) orientation of the filter pose any problems with filtering, etc? I wouldn't think it would matter, but I thought I'd ask.

 

As it stands now, the filter's input is on top, and flows "down" before exiting to the injectors, etc. This would be reversed if I flip it over.

 

BTW, as an aside, while removing the pump, I noticed that the inlet has a small screen/filter. I removed it to check it for debris, etc... and while blowing it out did indeed notice several small granules of debris that it caught. Remember that this is before the high-pressure filter, and after whatever screen the petcock has. I wonder if an inline filter between the tank and pump inlet might be a good idea. If so, this could be a cheapo plastic filter, as this link from tank to pump is not pressurized.

 

 

I'm pretty excited about getting rid of the airbox, relocating this pump, and reorganizing some of the harnesses and hoses. I think this will really clean up the area under the tank/spine, and increase air-flow=cooling for the bike With the airbox, and tangle of hoses/wires as delivered, it was quite messy and dense before. I suspect this is not how the original designers envisioned it...

 

I also found a great local source for heat-sheilding fabric "tubes" that can be put over wires, hoses, etc. They are just like the stuff that came OEM on my FJ, and that stuff was great. It's some local "speed shop" that also sells all sorts of neat hardware that may find their way onto the bike.

 

And I went by TAP plastics and got some black poly-something-or-other scraps for free, and made the fender that Mike?... or was it Lex? ..made to sheild the shock, trans breather, etc... from debris.

 

It's a simple triangle, more or less, 10.5 inches across the bottom, 5.5 inches high, with an inch and a half wide length chopped off the apex(so it looks like the Great Pyramid) to clear the shock mount. I'll post a picture later.

 

...now if I can just find somone that sells the AMP Superseal connectors, I'll be set for completing "all current projects" ... ok, well other than the dual-plug saga

 

 

al

[Cliff]

The pump primes fairly easily.

 

I'd have the filter with the inlet at the bottom. This allows any air to be quickly purged from it.

On the Sport it is mainly horizontal with outlet slightly higher. This looked like it would hold air in that upper corner.

I'm sure the first ride after replacing the filter, I was getting occasional misses as some of the trapped air escaped

[al_roethlisberger]

Interesting, as this is opposite from how it's installed on my bike from the factory. As delivered from the factory on my bike, the inlet is on top, with fuel flowing "down" the filter.

 

But your theory sounds reasonable, and is how I would end up mounting it in my new scenario.

 

thx

al

[Guest vkerrigan]

I've been told there is a sensor in the airbox (mass air?) thats needed for proper mixture. If true, is this relocated for the pod installation?

vkerrigan

[Guest vkerrigan]

Nevermind......My question was answered in the other thread...vk

[dlaing]

I like the idea of the fuel flowing upward.

I think having the pump intake as low as possible on the spine will help the priming of the pump. The highest pressure is between the pump and the filter so it is good to keep the line short and straight.

[callison]

The fuel filter may have the input side at the top so that particulate matter doesn't migrate downhill into the pump when the bike is off. Speculation on my part.

[al_roethlisberger]

The fuel filter may have the input side at the top so that particulate matter doesn't migrate downhill into the pump when the bike is off. Speculation on my part.

...my concerns too, but then again if there's particulate matter in the filter, it came through the pump And, somehow I don't think MG gave THAT much thought to the placement and orientation of these, especially since the pump has been moved around to three different places in the V11 history so far(not counting the new in-tank solution).

 

Anyway, I've got my first mock-up put together tonight... and there's still TONS of room under the tank where the airbox used to be

 

...maybe I'll have to have a custom tank made one day. I bet I could get another gallon of fuel in there easy.

 

al

[al_roethlisberger]

Here is a photo of the initial mock-up:

[al_roethlisberger]

Well, I've just about got everything all hooked up, groomed, and heat-shielded. After looking at it all, I think I've "overdone" it again

 

But as long as it all behaves, at least I'll feel rest-assured that the fuel-system will no longer get overheated easily

 

I'll post some more photos later, but just let me say this.... for anyone that ever removes the airbox, there is an unbelievable amount of space freed-up under the tank. This may seem like a ...but honestly, even after relocating the fuel-pump under there, I could put every bit of electronics, ECU, PCIII, and then some.. and still have room. Amazing.

 

Someone, someday, should really take advantage of this and make a larger tank.

 

Oh, and btw as an aside, I think making a cross-over tube would be really easy as well. The petcock and fuel-pressure regulator both are screw-in affairs. All one would have to do is add a "T" fitting(post regulator) and a balance tube. I think I'll look into this at a later date.

 

al

[Guest russ]

pics...pics...pics! Also, where did you source the pods and how have hey worked out? What changes to the ecu were necessary.

[al_roethlisberger]

I got the K&Ns from Evoluzione. They had been working on a slightly different pod solution, but have since shelved the project due to "inconsistencies" in MG's placement of components such as the fuel-pump on pre-2003 bikes

 

So I bought the remnants, but I'm sure they can get more filters, or any number of other vendors like Harpers, etc...

 

I don't know how well the pods will run yet, as I have just put them on, and the bike is quite disassembled right now. I'll be making an appt at Hare Racing next week to get the PCIII mapped appropriately, and that's all it should require.

 

If you don't have a PCIII, you'd need your shop to tweak the fueling on the ECU via FIM. It's a minor thing though.

 

The only concern I've got at this point is "head pressure" to the pump. Whereas the pump was about an inch below the petcock in the stock location, it is now about level, maybe 1/2 inch higher than the petcock. This really shouldn't be a problem, but then again... who knows how close the tolerance is. I guess I'll find out when I fire it up in the next day or so.

 

al

[Paul Minnaert]

You shouldn't worry about pump pressure, It will suck the fuel out of the tank if the tank is laying on the ground , I did that, with extended fuel lines, handy when you want the bike to run with the tank off. The pump does:

Delivery: 26.5 gal/hour at 44 psi with 12V power supply. The pump draws about 4.5 amps.

so where you place it, doesn't matter, the push is great enough.

And it pushes most of the gas back in the tank, through a valve, adjusted at 36psi

 

If you want to see how it works, do a google search for efiman.pdf

[al_roethlisberger]

That's good news Paul

 

..I *finally* just tracked down some fittings so I can make the turn from the pump to the petcock a bit easier.

 

At the same time, I think I have figured out how to easily make the "balance" or "x-over" tube. But that will be a later project.

 

Basically, just put a "tee" fitting at the pump inlet, and insert another "tee" between the pressure regulator and it's input into the tank. Then just run a hose from the regulator "tee" to the pump "tee". If I can find some fittings with the correct threading, this should be a very easy modification, and without any cutting or modification to the tank itself. One would probably also want to put a valve on the regulator supply line, another petcock if you will, to ease tank removal though

 

Anyway, I'll tinker with that later.

 

al

[dlaing]

Thanks Paul for the link to the efi manual.

for those too lazy for google....

www.dotnet.com/~dprune/efiman.pdf

Great ideas Al.

My only conern with piping in by the regulator is the piping getting too long. But it may be a non issue....