Swingarm Pivot Bolt Sizes

[al_roethlisberger]

Well, as mentioned briefly in "How To", I was trying to swap out my "pork chop" sideplates with some that I had powder coated a nice new red.

 

This newly finished set came from Joe Camarda, who had picked them up second hand, from a wrecked Sport1100. And from everyone's perspective, and visual inspection, they should have bolted right on.

 

Well, of course, as soon as I had one of the original plates off, and was about to reassemble and mount the new one.... well, they aren't exactly the same

 

Everything matches up dimensionally, but the diameter for the swingarm pivot bolt is a couple mm smaller than the bolt used on the V11 sideplate.

 

So apparently MG changed the size of this bolt to a bit larger sometime between 1996ish and 2002

 

Anyway, I have two options it seems...

 

1) The first option, if workable, obtain some pivot bolts and lock nuts for a Sport1100 and use them instead. The catch here, and my question, other than the threaded portion, is the actual pivot that inserts into the swingarm bearing the same diameter as used on the V11? If so, this would be an easy swap. If not, new bearings would be required, which I don't want to pursue.

 

2) Machine out the hole in the Sport1100 side plates to accomodate the larger V11 pivots. An interesting sidenote is that the holes on the V11 sideplates is not perfectly centered in the area made for this bolt. The factory hole seemed to have been drilled out a little down and forward by a mm or two. I don't know if this was on purpose, or just poor QC from Guzzi

 

 

So, again.... does anyone know if the Sport1100 pivots can be used with the V11 bearings, or should I just get the sideplates drilled/tapped?

 

al

[al_roethlisberger]

Well, unless someone else chimes-in, I just heard from Micha at Moto International:

 

 

Definitely option number two Al,

Cheers,

Micha

 

 

 

....so I'll cart the plates down to Nichols for machining

 

Final "word to the wise".... Sport1100 sideplates are not all going to be a bolt on fit for the V11 Sport. Maybe later ones will, I have no idea, but check first The plates I have are from 1996 I believe.

 

al

[Admin Jaap]

As always Al, you do the hard work and we profit. Thanks

[Paul Minnaert]

they both are 17mm in the bearing. outside thread is m20x1 or m22x1.

 

Or you order steanless ones from daes motec, very nice, no rust anymore. They have them in 20x1, so no machining to do.

[al_roethlisberger]

Paul,

 

Thanks, but I've already dropped the plates off.... although I suppose I could "stop him" as he had to order the 22mm tap, and won't have it until tomorrow.

 

Do you have a link for Daes Motec? I Googled them, but didn't find a link.

 

I wonder how quickly they could ship me the part.... and how much they cost... that would be my determining factor.

 

Also, SS isn't as strong(typically) as high grade steel. I don't know what these pins are made from, but I would assume it's a higher grade CroMo or similar Would SS be a good choice?

 

al

[Paul Minnaert]

http://www.daes-mototec.de/

 

I allways forget a "t" in mototec, look at the right for fahrwerk, und dann Schwingenlagerbolzen.

[al_roethlisberger]

Ahh, just sent you an identical PM as my post above... nevermind

 

 

So, anyone know the answer to my question about the centering(or lack thereof) of the threaded pin hole in the 2002 sideplate, versus the Sport1100 plate, which is perfectly centered?

 

I am having the Sport1100 plates drilled and tapped for the new 22mm size, and the existing bores are perfectly centered in the flat area the lock-nut cinches down to.

 

However, on the 2002 V11 Sport plate(the left one at least, not sure about the right) the hole is a couple mm off-center, a little down and to the front....

 

I just want to make sure this dimensional difference isn't critical, as I am having the machinist enlarge the Sport1100 plates to the 22mm "on center".

 

I suspect this off-center hole on the newer plate was a manufacturing error, as visually(I haven't had the pin out of the right 2002 plate yet) the lock nut looks pretty centered on it's raised mating surface on the right 2002 plate.

 

Any thoughts before they drill my Sport1100 plates?? Should the new holes be centered?

 

al

[al_roethlisberger]

Ok, well to answer my own question... after chatting with Paul via PM, the "on center" question is only critical in relation to location of the bore to the other mounting points on the sideplate, not the relief/surface of the casting.

 

So, if we assume Guzzi "got it right" with the original 20mm bore of the donor plates, drilling them out to 22mm "on center" should be the safest approach by retaining the true location of the pin these plates were made to fit.

 

 

Does this make sense? We are also assuming here as well that Guzzi didn't make any major changes to swingarm and drive-shaft tunnel dimensions between the mid-90s Sport1100 and the V11 Sport, such that a difference of 1-2mm(2002 hole located down and to the front diagonally ~2mm) would cause a problem

 

Or again, maybe my left 2002 plate is just an aberration? Is everyone elses pins/nuts (no pun intended ) centered? My right one seems to be.

 

Maybe I am just "tilting at windmills" here, but I just don't want to install these and have my driveshaft hit the tunnel or some other oddity. I can't imagine 2mm making that much difference(given the location of the pivot, and it's relation to the rest of the swingarm).... but, just thought it's safer to ask.

 

al

[jrt]

I think you answered your own question, Al. Keep the hole on center of the previous hole, not the boss. Although- if you want to be real anal about it, measure the distance on center of the cross-bolt hole to the plate-mount holes on both 'porkchops' and compare.

 

this is a mod that I've been thinking about as well- I wanted to use some early 1100 sport style pork-chops, so I can take advantage of the 'sandwich hole'.

 

Rock on, Al!

J

[Mike Stewart]

Al Anal?

 

Mike

[al_roethlisberger]

this is a mod that I've been thinking about as well- I wanted to use some early 1100 sport style pork-chops, so I can take advantage of the 'sandwich hole'.

 

Rock on, Al!

J

 

 

Sandwich Hole??

 

As far as I can tell, other than the pin size change, they are identical to the V11 Sport plates

 

 

al

[docc]

Then they must be late model 1100 Sport-injected plates. The earlier Spot 1100 - carbed had openings into the cross tube. Not the pretty, graceful castings of the later bikes including the Centauro.

[jrt]

 

Sandwich Hole??

 

 

 

al

It's about the right size to stuff a sandwich in, so I've heard it referred to as the sandwich hole.

Pie is not recommended.

I am rather partial to the older, less graceful, style. Don't know if it would work- lookswise- on the new bikes, but it would be fun to try. Not very high on my priority list, but if I run across a couple for cheap....

 

J

[Paul Minnaert]

for the samdich hole, you need to make 2 spacers from 20mm thick to put between frame and plates. The frame from the older bikesis 20mm wider.

[callison]

Hey Paul, wasn't the swingarm on the earlier models narrower as well? The engine mount points on the timing cover are wider on the earlier bikes though. Something that I discovered to my dismay while putting the V11 Sport back together with a cover from a carb sport. I had to hack saw the mounts .5cm on each side. There isn't enough material there for the engine mounts to survive a lot of riding use, so I've ordered the correct cover. Progress is pretty slow though, as I seem to missing at least one part in every box that I put things in.

 

 

Disturbingly, the 2004 Toyota Prius in the background gets better mileage than the bikes with a lot less hassle. That sort of negates the "advantages" of motorcycles when you're explaining to the missus that you'd like to "pick up just one more bike to add to the collection"...