clamp on oil filter

[polebridge]

FWIW, on the WildGuzzi site, a guy just posted about his filter coming loose on his Rosso Mandello and his engine siezing. It was not a UFI filter. It was a NAPA Gold (made by Wix, I think) filter.

This is nuts! Now I am really concerned about my last oil change (I used a UFI filter and tightened it with a torque wrench to about 10 ft/lbs.).

 

I wonder how this guy tightened his. By hand? With a wrench? With or without removing the oil pan?

 

Is there any reason why you shouldn't just put some blue loctite on the threads? I have seen this done by Volkswagon dealer mechanics on my wife's car.

[Guest ratchethack]

Is there any reason why you shouldn't just put some blue loctite on the threads? I have seen this done by Volkswagon dealer mechanics on my wife's car.

This may be the simplest, most elegant, and potentially the most effective idea I've seen yet.

 

Now why didn't I think of that?!

 

The only problem I can think of is degradation of chemical bonding from engine temperature oil bath.

 

But wot could it hurt?

[Dan M]

A good friend dropped off his 07 Ducati S2R for installation of exhaust yesterday. While I was at it I noticed a nickel sized drop of oil under it. This bike has 1800 miles and was serviced at the dealer at about 900 miles. I took a look and oil was dripping from the filter. The filter is external but resides in a well and is tough to get a hand on much like a BMW oilhead. I did not remove it and check the brand, I did not measure the seal or test the rubber for resistance to crush or flex strength. No calculations were done for filter stretch under pressure or what direction the oil swirled internally unscrewing the whole works. I just got a wrench on it and easily gave it a half turn. Problem solved. This filter did not loosen, it just was not installed tight enough. This problem can happen to any engine that uses spin on filters. As I wrote before, it is not the brand of filter or engine, it is the INSTALLER. If the threads are wrong then it is still the installer's fault for not noticing. I've seen loose filters many, many times. Almost always, not too long after they are installed they start to drip slowly. The more time that goes by, the more they leak and then have the tendency to loosen. The only problem with the internal filter that we have on the V11 is you don't know if it is leaking. If you tightened it sufficiently there is nothing to worry about. If you doubt your ability to tighten then clamp it.

Spin on oil filters have to be tight. That means turning it 3/4 to 1 full turn after the oiled gasket makes full contact. 10ft-lbs may not be enough. if your gasket has a dry spot, 10ft-lbs will leave your filter quite loose. Sometimes if you can't get a good angle or good hand hold you will not get it tight enough by hand either. If it turns 3/4 to 1 turn quite easily then turn it some more. IT HAS TO BE TIGHT.

 

This may be the simplest, most elegant, and potentially the most effective idea I've seen yet.

 

Now why didn't I think of that?!

 

The only problem I can think of is degradation of chemical bonding from engine temperature oil bath.

 

But wot could it hurt?

 

I don't like it. I have never heard of or read in any factory manual using lock tight on oil filter threads. If it is written I'd like to see it.

 

My only worry is what consistancy of snot does floating locktight turn into in hot oil, be it synthetic or dino, and where will it end up?

[Greg Field]

There's a local guy with a griso who's had his filter come loose enough to leak oil onto the ground three times now. The first time, he tightened it up again himself. It began loosening again, so he brought it in to Moto Intl. Our resident 250-lb gorilla really put the torque to it. It started loosening again after a few days, so we glued it on with loctite, and it's holding so far.

 

I do not believe insufficient tightening is the problem. You're free to draw your own conclusions, though.

 

As to loctite, keep in mind that loctite requires threads clean of oil. To clean a V11's threads, you'll have to take off the lower sump anyway, and then you'll likely have to do the same again to loosen the filter. Given all that, it's easier just to put on a hose clamp.

[Guest Nogbad]

With this repetitive Griso problem, could there be an issue with the tolerances on the spigot thread or the filter? Maybe the cutter was worn when that filter was made. Did you swap the filter out after the problem happened for the second time?

[Greg Field]

Yes, we put on a new filter. And we got a call from another shop today, asking how we keep the filters on our Grisos from loosening. He said every filter on every Griso he'd sold has come loose. Each had been installed with a torque wrench set to the factory recommended 14 lb.-ft. We told him what we do, which is to put them on there as tight as possible before the filter wrench slips. Our service manager figures this is 35-50 lb.-ft.

[Guest Nogbad]

Yes, we put on a new filter. And we got a call from another shop today, asking how we keep the filters on our Grisos from loosening. He said every filter on every Griso he'd sold has come loose. Each had been installed with a torque wrench set to the factory recommended 14 lb.-ft. We told him what we do, which is to put them on there as tight as possible before the filter wrench slips. Our service manager figures this is 35-50 lb.-ft.

 

F**K! Have you looked at the threads? Did Guzzi use a coarser thread for their Griso spigot / filter combination than other manufacturers?

 

I have never heard of this on other bikes, my SV650 had an external spin on, never a leak, and the Buell does too.

[Skeeve]

Has anyone else had a vision of a spring-bail like on old Beetle valve-covers as an end-all solution to this filter-loosening nonsense? Screw it down until you can get the divot in the end of the filter reasonably lined up, flip the bail over it, & no leaks, no loosening, no worries.

 

If life were only that simple..

[Guest Nogbad]

Has anyone else had a vision of a spring-bail like on old Beetle valve-covers as an end-all solution to this filter-loosening nonsense? Screw it down until you can get the divot in the end of the filter reasonably lined up, flip the bail over it, & no leaks, no loosening, no worries.

 

If life were only that simple..

 

It would need the filter manufacturer to put a little welded lug on the casing. Incidentally, how do racers lockwire their filters?

[Guest ratchethack]

I don't like it. I have never heard of or read in any factory manual using lock tight on oil filter threads. If it is written I'd like to see it.

Ah, but there seem to be many ideas of significant merit not written in any factory manual, at least some of which are of fairly compelling nature, n'est-ce pas?

 

1. Threadlocking any part of the Guzzi.

 

2. Lubing driveshaft and rear hub splines, cush drive collar, shifter shaft, shock eyes, etc.

 

3. Various fuel re-mapping strategies.

 

4. Synthetic oils (my factory manual spec's. dino).

 

5. Windage/sloppage/Roper plate.

 

6. Headlight relays.

 

7. Basic suspension set-up -- spring rates, sags, damping.

 

. . . etc.

 

We're all well acquainted with the inherent risks of "bleeding edge" vs. "state of the shelf" as applied to all of the above -- but by all means leave us continue to consider any new and innovative idea of potential merit, not discarding anything merely because the factory manual hasn't evolved as far as WE, this Forum, have brought the state of maintaning the Guzzi as a highly refined science -- er, well, highly refined ART, perhaps!

[scottybee]

I also just posted this on the UFI filter paranoia thread, but I did my first oil change and whoever did the last change installed a UFI filter. It was not tight at all. I think it was still sealed but absolutely 0.0 torque.

 

So I put on the super-tech (wally-world) filter and a hose clamp. Yes I removed the labels from both.

I may switch to a bosch or purolator filter next time.