Can't connect Bassa to Guzzidiag.

[docc]

 

So I have successfully saved my ECU map and see a procedure for resetting the TPS using Guzzidiag. It states that it should be done when writing a map to the ECU. If I use the reset function with my current map would it correct values based on readings of current values? Would it make sense to do this?

Unless I'm missing something.. the TPS is reset manually on that model.

 

I thought so, too. But I don't know how to tune a Bassa. The ECU is 15M?

[nealwp]

Yes, a 15M.

[docc]

Yes, a 15M.

So, I was thinking the ECU model is what drives the CO setting and the TPS procedure?

 

CO Fuel Trim is set with guzzidiag (or Meinolf's method directly in the EEPROM).

 

And that the TPS cannot be set in the ECU like, say, a 1200 Sport? Which translates to setting the TPS manually with a voltmeter?

 

But, again, I don't know how the Bassa is configured, but just thinking it must be very similar to a 2000 V11 Sport . . .

[Meinolf]

Hi gentlemen,

 

looking at the last posts it seems there are some misunderstandings about the TPS reset. 

 

The TPS reset is not dependent on the ECU type.

 

It is only required if the TPS position can not be physically adjusted to match the (completely) closed position of the throttle valve with a pre-determined voltage value. In case of the BINs used in V11 and other Guzzi models the voltage is 157mV, not 150mV. The 150mV value is wrong and based on a faulty calculation of the TPS ADC look-up table. The difference might seem small, but why use an erroneous value if it can be avoided.

 

Why is the TPS reset or adjustment required, one might ask. Because all things mechanical, such as the throttle shaft bearings or the contact area of the butterfly valve against the throttle body, will wear over time.

 

Why would this minor wear be important, one might ask. Because the inlet area (equivalent to air mass moving through the throttle body) is a cosine function of the throttle shaft and attached butterfly valve. The inital small openings of the butterfly valve  result in (% increase of inlet area) the same values than the latter steps which move from, for example, 40° to 50°. Which is why the TPS breakpoints are clustered up to ~20° and get less dense afterwards. At ~75% of total opening (or WOT -25%) the free inlet area will no longer increase because the throttle shaft area is bigger than the area of the rotated butterfly valve.

 

The program in the ECU (part of the BIN) uses fuel maps (and others) indexed by rpm and TPS. The fuel map values in low load areas differ greatly (> 50% in some areas) from one breakpoint to the next. If the TPS is not set properly, the fuel values will not fit to the air mass flowing into the cylinder, hence the engine will not run as well as it could.

 

For those models which use a non-adjustable TPS, typically the models equipped with a 15RC and lambda sensor supporting closed loop operation, the program code offers the possibility to reset TPS values. These values are learned values and the reset will be to default values, both for throttle closed and WOT.

 

Why is it recommended to reset TPS after uploading a new BIN, one might ask. Because the BIN has parameters which are the default min./max. TPS values which the code uses to start the TPS learning procedure. If these default values are different from the ones used in the previous BIN and applied to the learned values stored in the flash memory, the re-learning procedure will take longer.

 

Or, in case of closed loop operation, might even contribute to a downward spiral of the LTFT- and STFT values, though this would be a rare occurence.

 

Quite coincidentally I've just found and am now exploring the TPS learning sub in the 5AM code used in Guzzi 4V and 8V Carc models. The basic mechanism is probably quite similar to the one used in the 15xx BIN, so have a look at this thread https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=93758.0 if interest so dictates.

 

Cheers

Meinolf

[Meinolf]

Hi Al,

 

So that then raises the question of how one would tune a 15M with Guzzidiag alone (no PCIII) to accommodate those modifications if you don't have a dyno, lambda probe, etc.

 

simply put, you can't do any tuning without at least hooking up a decent wideband AFR logger. And investing tons of time, the learning curve is long and steep.

 

If you should decide to go this way my recommendation would be to focus on getting the AFRs of both cylinders sync'ed first. This alone will assure a MUCH better drivability and improve the fuel consumption. Every thing else is just cream on top.

 

Cheers

Meinolf

[stewgnu]

The ecu in my v11 is labelled bassa. Are they the same unit then?

[footgoose]

The ecu in my v11 is labelled bassa. Are they the same unit then?

 

just to piggyback this, if I may, just curious. My '03 LeMans came with a 15M.C7 labeled V11 LM MY '02 (uninstalled) The unit installed on the bike is a 15M.C3  and lableled California S. I don't know the tune history, but the bike was equipped with Xover and Ti cans. So, either the Cal S works with the new "flow", or that was just a re-mapped (I suspect) unit. The bike ran beautifully.

[antmanbee]

Use the Guzzi diag reader to pull the map and then load it in Tuner pro and you can see everything.

[Paul Minnaert]

15m.c7 is newer then c3. And will behave different, but you might not find the difference, it can be irrelevant.

 

 

For tps reset, the linear tps types like pf1c use tps reset. It has nothing to do with lambda. The bellagio with 5am has pf3c and not tps reset. The v7 has pf1c and tps reset and 15rc.

 

15rc is used when a lambda is used, the v11 was made with 15m and 15rc at the same time, depending on country where they were made for. Same loom. This from 2003

 

 

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[docc]

[i've moved my thread hijack about TPS to its own discussion based upon my results today:]

 

TPS Setting, Importance & Sensitivity