rocker59 Posted March 12, 2007 Posted March 12, 2007 Many of you may remember last July that I had some sort of engine failure one night on while riding my Quota in Northern Virginia. At the time, there was a flury of reporting that oil filters could/would spin off all by themselves on Moto Guzzis. Greg Field has taken lots of flack over the issue, writing that he's seen a good number of them over the past few years. Others speculated that maybe the bypass valves were the cause. At first, I couldn't believe that the oil filter would actually spin off. I thought it must be some other oil system failure. After reading lots of reports on the matter, though, I was brought into Greg's camp. I deduced that my oil filter had, in fact, come loose in the pan. Well, my life has been kinda busy the last six months and I have just had the Quota sitting in the garage awaiting me to drain the oil and drop the pan to investigate. It's 70-degrees and nice here today, so I decided to check it out. No metal bits were on the magnetic drain plug. Good sign. No unusual metal particles in the oil as it drained. Good sign. Then I pulled all the bolts and dropped the pan... WOW !!! If this picture isn't worth a thousand words, I don't know what is. This is exactly what I saw when I dropped the pan: The filter had spun all the way off the threads. I didn't touch it. Unbelievable !!! Looks like the crank knocked it around a bit, huh ?!?!? Nothing too unusual when I looked up inside, but it is locked up: Yes, I ran it for a bit with the oil light on. Yes, I ASS-U-MEd that the oil light was lying. Yes I'm a dumb arse and learned a valuable (and expensive) lesson !!! So Greg, here's another one to add to your list... Sasquatch is sure to turn up next...
Guest ratchethack Posted March 12, 2007 Posted March 12, 2007 YIKES! There's nothing quite like hard evidence. This one goes in the, "Now wot're you gonna believe -- me, or y'er own eyes?" file. Do I recognize the familiar blue stripe of UFI??
rocker59 Posted March 12, 2007 Author Posted March 12, 2007 Yep. It is an OEM UFI filter bought at a dealer... So much for the non-OEM excuses that have been passed around...
raz Posted March 12, 2007 Posted March 12, 2007 Yep. It is an OEM UFI filter bought at a dealer... So much for the non-OEM excuses that have been passed around... So you mounted it yourself? I'm not saying you screwed up, just that this time we have a chance to ask. How was it torqued? By hand, tool, torque wrench, counting threads? I wonder if this is happening with any type of filter or is it just UFI? Maybe a bad batch of them, with bad or wrong gaskets. This is pretty wierd.
rocker59 Posted March 12, 2007 Author Posted March 12, 2007 So you mounted it yourself? I'm not saying you screwed up, just that this time we have a chance to ask. How was it torqued? By hand, tool, torque wrench, counting threads? I wonder if this is happening with any type of filter or is it just UFI? Maybe a bad batch of them, with bad or wrong gaskets. This is pretty wierd. Did the oil change myself. Hand torqued, just like every other filter I've changed over the years... It had been on the bike for about 3,000 miles since the previous oil change...
Guest ratchethack Posted March 12, 2007 Posted March 12, 2007 Seems to me the oil pressure light would have been on for quite some time -- as long as it took the thing to back all the way off the threads -- and this might've taken as long as MINUTES -- or even LONGER?? Inspector Hatchracket's probing inquiry, Part II - How d'you s'pose it could have run for as long as it evidently took to back all the way off without seizing??
Guzzirider Posted March 12, 2007 Posted March 12, 2007 Thanks for sharing Mike! Sorry to hear it ended up this way but as you say, some evidence to prove this can happen. I can't imagine it is a very common occurence otherwise it would have been widely reported, but your unfortunate experience shows it is possible. I had Greg's posts going through my mind when I serviced the Jackal the other day- did not use any clamps but made sure it was very hand tight, without going too far. Guy
rocker59 Posted March 12, 2007 Author Posted March 12, 2007 Seems to me the oil pressure light would have been on for quite some time -- as long as it took the thing to back all the way off the threads -- and this might've taken as long as MINUTES -- or even LONGER?? Inspector Hatchracket's probing inquiry, Part II - How d'you s'pose it could have run for as long as it evidently took to back all the way off without seizing?? Part I: Yes. The oil pressure light was on. I was 2-up going down the road at 50mph and the bike was running fine. It was a bad mistake to ASS-U-ME that the light was faulty. Yes, by my estimation, it ran for about 15-minutes... Part II: I'm estimating it ran for 15-minutes and almost 15-miles. When it started to act funny, I pulled in the clutch and pulled over in a safe place. The motor apparently siezed, as it would not restart, and it will not turn over. I couldn't believe my eyes when I dropped the pan. The dents in the filter are proof that the engine was running while the filter was off... Do I get a bodge point, or something for this stupid mistake. Riding two-up at 9pm on a narrow two-lane road twenty miles from my destination. I just didn't want to believe the oil light... Twenty years of riding. I guess everyone phucks up every now and then...
Guest ratchethack Posted March 12, 2007 Posted March 12, 2007 ...Riding two-up at 9pm on a narrow two-lane road twenty miles from my destination. I just didn't want to believe the oil light... Twenty years of riding. Well, I reckon if there's a lesson to be learned here, it's the same in Shifty Al's case: Years of riding experience doesn't exempt anyone's Guzzi from the laws of Physics. . . Another lesson might be the tremendous durability and strength of the Guzzi donk. Wot other motor would go 20 miles at 50 mph, two up, with no oil pressure?
Guest Nogbad Posted March 12, 2007 Posted March 12, 2007 Do I get a bodge point, or something for this stupid mistake. Riding two-up at 9pm on a narrow two-lane road twenty miles from my destination. I just didn't want to believe the oil light... Twenty years of riding. I guess everyone phucks up every now and then... Well, I wasn't going to award one as enough self punishment seems already to have occurred, but I can give you the optional entitlement to display a bodge point if you want one.
big J Posted March 12, 2007 Posted March 12, 2007 Jeez,that's bad luck.My sympathies. Has anyone figured out a theory WHY a filter could unscrew itself. Assuming it was correctly fitted by Mike,why the hell would it come loose?The O ring should surely have enough friction to keep it tight? Just a thought,could a faulty relief valve cause an overpressure in the filter and cause a deformation of the casing,such that it would lose tension on the retaining thread?
drjim99 Posted March 12, 2007 Posted March 12, 2007 "Did the oil change myself. Hand torqued, just like every other filter I've changed over the years... It had been on the bike for about 3,000 miles since the previous oil change..." Mike - Sorry to hear about your Quota! Sorry to be dense, but when you say the filter was "hand torqued" do you mean 1) You held the filter with your hand and tightened it, or 2) You used a torque wrench and tightened the filter to the recommended torque of 10-12 Nm (app. 7.5 - 9 Ft. lbs.)? Jim
Guest ratchethack Posted March 13, 2007 Posted March 13, 2007 Has anyone figured out a theory WHY a filter could unscrew itself. Assuming it was correctly fitted by Mike,why the hell would it come loose?The O ring should surely have enough friction to keep it tight? ... John was HOT on the trail of wot appeared to be potentially significant early intelligence, which (as I'd suggested at the link below), should it lead to compelling evidence, would no doubt eventually earn him a place of highest honor in the Guzzi Hall of Solutions to Very Serious, yet Admittedly Esoteric Problems: http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?...=9670&st=0# Wot say you, John? Any further developments from the world of Shore A scale on the durometer? In light of Rocker's recent discovery, might this add fuel to the fire?
rocker59 Posted March 13, 2007 Author Posted March 13, 2007 I did save the filter if someone wants to do a post-mortem... The round circle at the top of the filter has scrape marks going at an angle. Is it possible that once is became a little loose, the crank contacted the filter, helping to spin it off the threads ??? Drjim99, I tighten my filters BY HAND. I don't use a torque wrench. The filter was on the bike for something like 3,000 miles before failing. If it had happened just after an oil change, I'd think I didn't tighten it enough. After a few thousand miles, I think something else happened...
Greg Field Posted March 13, 2007 Posted March 13, 2007 If it was causing airplanes to crash, someone would do the work to figure out why it occassionally happens, but it's just Guzzis, so we're left to speculate. I ain't gonna mention what it is, to prevent starting another riot, but there's a simple device that some use as a mechaincal stop to prevent them loosening. Look back at previous threads on the subject if you are interested.
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