Go water-cooled. What! What?What!

[belfastguzzi]

I haven't really been on any Forums for a while. Looking at the Moto Guzzi Club GB forum just now and seeing more of the same old same old that is repeated there endlessly (no-one needs any new models... T3 / Cali is all WE real Guzzisti will ever need...) I found myself impetuously responding to the statement that no Guzzi owner would ever buy an un-necessarily complicated water-cooled MG.

 

I thought I would re-post here, as in fact I'm somewhat surprised that I would now entertain the merits and necessity of a water-cooled Guzzi. Also, I note with interest the other topic about Aprilia sports bikes vs Guzzi sports bike.

 

So here goes.

On MGCGB forum: "Would anyone here ever buy a water-cooled Guzzi?"

 

Me:

No: because my experience of Guzzi-Piaggio's appalling couldn't-care-less attitude to customers and the turning a blind eye to their own factory and dealership inadequacies is so bad that I won't buy anything more from Guzzi.

 

Yes: if they would change their ways and their previous-century business attitude, which is very unlikely. Yes, because it could provide a great bike and a fabulous ride: one that new-to-Guzzi customers might actually want to buy.

Because the Guzzi-Piaggio dealer/service experience has been, and is, so terrible and I'm left with a dog of a damaged and unreliable 8V Griso, I bought a different make, with a watercooled V twin (Aprilia) It goes great. Only a 750 so of course it ultimately doesn't have the grunt of the Griso 8V 1200, but it's a brilliant ride. The 1200 version of Aprilia's V twin should be interesting.

 

I'm a bit surprised to now say it: a water cooled V for MG is the way forward, though maybe Piaggio won't allow it. Certainly if there was to be a Guzzi sports bike (as per Guzzirider's red dream), it would need such a new motor, wouldn't it?

 

As for the added 'complication'... my water-cooled V twin has been way more reliable than any of my air-cooled Guzzi V twins. Hooray, hooray, hooray.

 

– ahem, Pete if you happen to see this, sorry... no slander of Griso intended: I think you know it's the company that I'm fed-up with, not the bike –

 

edit

oh, er... not the company here. The company there, you know...Moto Guzzi Piaggio & Co.

[mznyc]

Yup,

I'd buy a LQ'ed MGS-01 type Guzz.It's really what I want.A slightly rough around the edges V-twin,comfy to ride for a day,less ,albiet slightly more complicated maintenance(no problem for me)and real world power 100hp+.Ala Monster/Duc Classic/RVS.They could offer a Air-cooled and LQ models.problem solved.

Dealer support and reliability would be things that ive always required from my bikes but lack on my Guzzi.If not for the fun factor of riding the V11(when it's not down) ,it wouldn't be in my garage.

[GuzziMoto]

Yeah, not only would I buy a water cooled Guzzi, I would love one. As mentioned, please put it in an MGS 01 style bike. Maybe a liquid cooled V4.... That would be sweet.

Of course I have not had the problems that some have had, but that can and does happen with pretty much every brand.

[docc]

I do love the way air cooled cylinders ring in the cool crisp air of the morning. I would hate to damp(en) them with a jacket of water. Of course, this is the same tune of aging aficionados everywhere.

 

The "corporate" Moto Guzzi experience reminds me a lovely curvaceous thing I dated (briefly) before the Aging Aficionado thing set in:

 

"Of course I'm not giving you any. But you're, like, out with me , right?"

 

Where will MG go from here? My goodness, imagine the blog traffic (that would have been) when MotoGuzzi ditched 46 years of outside flywheel horizontal singles for this new-fangled V-twin thing?

 

If they shift gears now, I can still keep my hottie V11 Sport, even if she doesn't always 'give me any.'

 

Really, I'm looking forward to fueling up one day next some young bucks on those new age Guzzis. "Whoa, fellas, those are some of those spectacular Italian water jacket buggers with the laser-plasma rear drive! Who's your dealer?":oldgit:

[belfastguzzi]

I do love the way air cooled cylinders ring in the cool crisp air of the morning. I would hate to damp(en) them with a jacket of water. Of course, this is the same tune of aging aficionados everywhere.

I do love the way air cooled cylinders ring in the cool crisp air of the morning. 1

 

That ringing you hear: it's your tinnitus,, brought on by over-exposure to constant clanking, clattering and rattling.

Sure anyway, the current Guzzis are half-way to liquid cooled and they've got the monstrous boxy radiator: might as well continue on the whole way.

 

I do love the way air cooled cylinders ring in the cool crisp air of the morning. 2

 

Ah yes, the familiar ringing sound of a hammer hitting a Guzzi. Start you brute... why won't you go!*%^$?

 

[Guzzirider]

I love that new RSVR V4- sooo small and compact. The reality is I will stick with what I have got. Now that the Jackal cafe racer is finished, when I can afford to do it, I will be sourcing a Daytona or Centauro motor, getting it bored out and tuned, then fitting it to my V11, which I know is possible. I will cover some of the cost by selling my V11 motor. More radical clip ons, deep black gloss paint, single seat unit, Motogadget instruments and custom made exhaust- I want to make an animal of a Guzzi that I can have fun with on the track too.

 

I can do this for less than the cost of a new Nevada (spit) and in the absence of any true sporting Guzzis in the new model range, this is my preferred route.

[pete roper]

 

– ahem, Pete if you happen to see this, sorry... no slander of Griso intended: I think you know it's the company that I'm fed-up with, not the bike –

 

 

Dave. If I was in your position and had experienced what you had I'd be a bit testy too

 

If I may I'd like to tell you a bit of what is happening in my head at the moment.

 

Firstly. I own two 8V Grisos. One here in Oz, (The 'Griso Verde') and one in the USA, (The 'Griso Pinko') Both of them are '08 models, same as yours. Both of them fell within the range of the Cam recall but neither of mine ever had any problems. Certainly the Griso Pinko was got to before it had a chance to lunch its tappets and there certainly seems to have been a very, very high incidence of failure with the early ones. That being the case, why did mine manage to soldier on for almost 30,000Km without going wrong? Perhaps I was lucky. I should really go and get one of my original tappets tested to see if I was just super lucky and got four that were properly hardened. Perhaps though a contributing factor was that because I KNEW it was a new design I grossly over-serviced it and observed what I found right from the get-go. I adjusted the tappets about five or six times in the first 5,000Kms just to find out what was happening in the 'New' top end, so the valves were always kept very close to spec. I also found that the A5 motor cams are very agressive and have VERY short rampings, or at least mine did. That means that clearances are critical. Could it simply be that a HUGE percentage of the problems were down to the so called 'Dealers' and 'Mechanics' who are supposed to work on these bits of shit simply never bothering to do the routine inspections? Probably not, but I'll bet you a blunderbus full of barnacles that it would of been a contributory factor! AT THE END OF THE DAY THOUGH, I DON'T F#CKING KNOW!

 

Very early in the piece I found that the light throttle/low load fuelling was very ordinary. All the data I could get from the factory tooling told me it was tuned correctly. I was, I admit, perplexed. Shortly after I bought the Griso Verde, (Which was then Bianco!) the factory issed a map upgrade but I was tld this was super-hush-hush and very secret as it wasn't approved for 'Road Use' and installing it could leave anyne installing it wide open to having the enviro-nazis camp on their bank ballance. But nowhere in the tooling does it tell you 'Off Road/Track Use' Only. Fuggit! Stick it in. It made things better. A fair bit better, but still not brilliant. About *x* months after that there was another upgrade released, the #68 map. In both the Griso Verde and the Griso Pinko I have this map in bikes that are otherwise bog stock apart from aftermarket pipes. The Verde has the factory Termi, the Pinko has a Mistral Hi-Pipe. Both of them run brilliantly just tuned 'As Per Book'. I'm sure that they can be made to make marginally more power, but a a quite severe cost, for reasons I won't go into here. Just let it be said that I feel no need to use any sort of 'Aftermarket Add On' to either of them.

 

What has driven me almost to the point of picking up my bat and ball, spitting the dummy and walking off the field is a combination of many factors. For one, despite the fact that I am internationally recognised as somewhat of an authority on Guzzi's products, (I'm not going to indulge in any false modesty here, it's a fact.) I am by no means universally liked in Oz. I'm seen as a pain in the arse and a thorn in the side of many owners and more importantly dealers. why? Because I'm sorry, but I fix stuff. Stuff that other dealers have charged large sums of money for fucking up? I can usually fix in less than a day, sometimes, as in the case of the bloke who FLEW me up to Brisbane last Monday, it takes me a lot less time. I fixed his problem in under an hour! While this is great and it IS very gratifying to find that I am very often right and my fixes usually work, (I'm not a miracle worker, I make mistakes too sometimes.) and my customers are grateful it DOES seem to engender a lot of resentment from idiots and fucktards, especially those who have considered themselves to be the 'Big I Am' in their field for many years.

 

Secondly I am sick and tired of being told I'm wrong by people whose bikes are broken. If they are so bloody smart why are their bikes broken or running like shit while mine run perfectly! It's tiresome and insulting as well as being downright bloody daft!!!!

 

Thirdly, my *reward* for the effort and time I put in fixing @#!#$#-ups from other people is to be told that I can't actually sell the bikes because I don't have a flash showroom. Never mind that most local people who purchase Guzzis usually bring them out to me to have a proper PD done on them! Never mind that I get all the warranty work that pays shit. Never mind the fact that I've bought the tooling, (Not just Navigator, I'm probably the ONLY workshop in Oz, with the possible exception of Mario in Perth, that has all the neccessary tools to do a clutch replacement on an 8V and a correct CARC disassembley.). Navigator itself I only bought because the Axone tool I had been promised was a long term proposition three years ago when I bought it, for $3,000+. Then I was told it would no longer be supported and had to shell out another $3,500 for Navigator. AND I pay a 'Subscription' fee of $500 for access to the Sevicemotoguzzi site, (A joke!) and the upgrades for Navigator, a tool so useless that it doesn't even have the correct codes for reseting the service icons on the dashboards of the new bikes in!!!!!

 

NOT MUCH OF AN INCENTIVE TO KEEP BOTHERING IS THERE?

 

So why do I do it? No doubt people will say that I get discounts on parts at trade and I've bought three motorbikes at dealer cost. Yes, I have. Believe me the 'Savings' I've made don't even come close to the investment I've made! Not even the fact that having the factory tooling makes sense really. Yes, it means I can download maps, (The only thing that VDSTS can't do that Navigator does.) and early in the piece this was important to me because I knew damn well that none of the so-called dealers anywhere around here would be capable of doing it, and if they tried they'd probably insist on 'Servicing' and 'Tuning' my bike for me, (Shudder! Heaven forbid!)

 

Well right now I'm just about at the pint where I'm really feeling 'What's the point?'. And you know the answer? There isn't one. I feel I'm beating my head against a brick wall and stressing myself half to dath about something I simply don't care about any more. as I said. My bikes run fantastically. I can't see why I should try and hold up the crumbling edifice that is Piaggio service. I actually think that our importer here, by world standards, is quite good. And Dan. the tech boy, is a nice lad and is helpfull. Compared to your situation where you got royally reamed by a 'tard and the ONLY reason you eventually got your poor old tart to run half way decently was because some idiot on the other side of the world sent you the factory tooling so you could do it yourself I think it speaks volumes.

 

It doesn't alter tha fact that despite the fact that the current models are superb and the Nuovo Hi-Cam, especially in the Griso, is such a HUGE step forward for the company in terms of performance, build quality and reliability all that will count for nothing, less than nothing, if the dealership network and the factory's information dissemination system remains in the stone age.

 

I'm spending August in the USA. There is a VERY good chance that after I come back I will vanish, from the trade, from the innerneck boards, possibly, if Tony Abbot is elected as our next prime minister from any country that has a telephone system that works, plumbing or even rudimentary housing! There is a cave up on the North Eastern tip of Tasmania near Cape Grim that is looking pretty fucking attractive at the moment. The world, and especially the motorbike world and the people who inhabit it, sucks a lot at the moment. I want out I think.......

 

I'm really sorry your experience with the 8VG has soured you against it. Of course I can understand why. I just wish i could do something other than whinge to rebuild your faith in the marque. The problem is I don't think in all honesty I can......

 

Pete

[jihem]

amazing post, Pete, thanx for opening up !

[Tom M]

I really like my simple air cooled V11 but yes I would be willing to buy a water cooled Guzzi. If Moto Morini were available in the US I would be very interested in one of their 1200 V-twins, especially if they came out with a half faired model.

 

http://www.motomorini.com/web/#?id=moto&

 

I'd love to see Guzzi offer something like the Morini motor with a belt drive like the Buell 1125, and use it a range of bikes including the MGS. It seems that not enough people agree with my taste in motorcycles though given that both Morini and Buell have gone under. How successful could Guzzi be if they built what I want? Answer: they'd probably go broke too.

 

Pete, so sorry you're getting so fed up with Piaggio and their products, but given what you've been through with them I can't blame you for your despair. I hope you have a great time on your vacation over here.

[belfastguzzi]

 

It doesn't alter tha fact that despite the fact that the current models are superb and the Nuovo Hi-Cam, especially in the Griso, is such a HUGE step forward for the company in terms of performance, build quality and reliability all that will count for nothing, less than nothing, if the dealership network and the factory's information dissemination system remains in the stone age.

 

You know I agree with all of that and just to pick out that one sentence above, I've written and said the same so many times now, on forums, to dealers to Piaggio: but somehow, it really doesn't seem to bother people, least of all Piaggio themselves. I can't understand how they maintain this bad business attitude. They have so often said that everything on the web is just lies and rubbish. (That may be because all they look at is the MG site ) Not only is it a fact that many of our bikes wouldn't be running very well or running at all if it wasn't for the incredibly helpful information and help supplied by other enthusiasts around the world; but just from a sensible, selfish business point of view, Guzzi-Piaggio should be monitoring and engaging with what is being said – and so then quickly addressing serious issues that arise. Their opposite approach of showing disdain and contempt for their customers is no use to us – and it is absolutely no help to maintaining a healthy, viable company and brand in 2011, 2012, 2013...

 

If they had half a creative corporate brain, they would be treating people like you as their most treasured ambassadors and backing you to the hilt in every way possible, including ensuring that you become the next PM of AustriaLand, or at least are allowed to sell one or two of their blessed bikes. They really are a monumentally stupid organisation, lost in the Victorian era and preserving a neanderthal outlook on the operations of society and commerce.

Can you change them? Unlikely now, as they don't want to change. Can you work for them / with them? I don't know.

Can the Guzzi 'community' change them? I think they could, they could certainly try. but that's the odd thing: what I have found in the past year is that by and large the glorious community of Guzziheads aren't really bothered. There are clearly exceptions and for example there are people on this forum who have encouraged and supported me and said they would back an international approach being made to Piaggio-Guzzi, but there has been a more overwhelming response/lack of response, of "don't rock the boat"!!! "I've got a good dealer" "my Cali/Nevada is great, what are you complaining about, I'll never need a new bike" and so on and so on. To some degree, maybe the world of Guzzi owners has got the Company that it deserves?

 

My experience and involvement in no way compares to yours, but there is the same bizarre thing in that in a small, tiny way I have gone out of my way to promote Moto Guzziness and Guzzi ownership. I have spent far more money on buying and running the things than I have ever spent on my family cars and I have tried to galvanise Guzzi people through organising meetings, putting stuff on the web etc. I'm now even the Moto Guzzi Club GB, Northern Ireland Branch! Again, you would think that Piaggio Guzzi would realise that people doing these things are a huge help to the Company, are doing a thousand times more promotional work than the factory itself does. You would think that they would want to encourage us actively enthusiastic folk and build on the benefit that we freely create. Instead they are so dim-witted-short-sighted that they would rather discourage us.

 

Weird

 

Number 1 - We should be treated in a reasonable and proficient way as customers. We just should.

Number 2 - The exceptional pride that we owners have in the bikes and in the marque should be seen, prized and used by the Company as a valuable asset.

Number 3 - Just because all other bikes, cars and things have problems too, doesn't justify a complacent attitude (in us, if we are enthusiasts – or in the company) and it doesn't mean that Piaggio Guzzi shouldn't be prioritising improvement, particularly in customer service, with all urgency. It does mean that Piaggio Guzzi have got a golden opportunity to stand out as progressive, competent, caring, responsible, even excellent and innovative producers and partners in enthusiasm – when there is such a sea of crap all around.

 

:!: Warning: motorbikes are SERIOUS fun :!:

[Bogwopit]

Dave. If I was in your position and had experienced what you had I'd be a bit testy too

 

If I may I'd like to tell you a bit of what is happening in my head at the moment.

 

Firstly. I own two 8V Grisos. One here in Oz, (The 'Griso Verde') and one in the USA, (The 'Griso Pinko') Both of them are '08 models, same as yours. Both of them fell within the range of the Cam recall but neither of mine ever had any problems. Certainly the Griso Pinko was got to before it had a chance to lunch its tappets and there certainly seems to have been a very, very high incidence of failure with the early ones. That being the case, why did mine manage to soldier on for almost 30,000Km without going wrong? Perhaps I was lucky. I should really go and get one of my original tappets tested to see if I was just super lucky and got four that were properly hardened. Perhaps though a contributing factor was that because I KNEW it was a new design I grossly over-serviced it and observed what I found right from the get-go. I adjusted the tappets about five or six times in the first 5,000Kms just to find out what was happening in the 'New' top end, so the valves were always kept very close to spec. I also found that the A5 motor cams are very agressive and have VERY short rampings, or at least mine did. That means that clearances are critical. Could it simply be that a HUGE percentage of the problems were down to the so called 'Dealers' and 'Mechanics' who are supposed to work on these bits of shit simply never bothering to do the routine inspections? Probably not, but I'll bet you a blunderbus full of barnacles that it would of been a contributory factor! AT THE END OF THE DAY THOUGH, I DON'T F#CKING KNOW!

 

Very early in the piece I found that the light throttle/low load fuelling was very ordinary. All the data I could get from the factory tooling told me it was tuned correctly. I was, I admit, perplexed. Shortly after I bought the Griso Verde, (Which was then Bianco!) the factory issed a map upgrade but I was tld this was super-hush-hush and very secret as it wasn't approved for 'Road Use' and installing it could leave anyne installing it wide open to having the enviro-nazis camp on their bank ballance. But nowhere in the tooling does it tell you 'Off Road/Track Use' Only. Fuggit! Stick it in. It made things better. A fair bit better, but still not brilliant. About *x* months after that there was another upgrade released, the #68 map. In both the Griso Verde and the Griso Pinko I have this map in bikes that are otherwise bog stock apart from aftermarket pipes. The Verde has the factory Termi, the Pinko has a Mistral Hi-Pipe. Both of them run brilliantly just tuned 'As Per Book'. I'm sure that they can be made to make marginally more power, but a a quite severe cost, for reasons I won't go into here. Just let it be said that I feel no need to use any sort of 'Aftermarket Add On' to either of them.

 

What has driven me almost to the point of picking up my bat and ball, spitting the dummy and walking off the field is a combination of many factors. For one, despite the fact that I am internationally recognised as somewhat of an authority on Guzzi's products, (I'm not going to indulge in any false modesty here, it's a fact.) I am by no means universally liked in Oz. I'm seen as a pain in the arse and a thorn in the side of many owners and more importantly dealers. why? Because I'm sorry, but I fix stuff. Stuff that other dealers have charged large sums of money for fucking up? I can usually fix in less than a day, sometimes, as in the case of the bloke who FLEW me up to Brisbane last Monday, it takes me a lot less time. I fixed his problem in under an hour! While this is great and it IS very gratifying to find that I am very often right and my fixes usually work, (I'm not a miracle worker, I make mistakes too sometimes.) and my customers are grateful it DOES seem to engender a lot of resentment from idiots and fucktards, especially those who have considered themselves to be the 'Big I Am' in their field for many years.

 

Secondly I am sick and tired of being told I'm wrong by people whose bikes are broken. If they are so bloody smart why are their bikes broken or running like shit while mine run perfectly! It's tiresome and insulting as well as being downright bloody daft!!!!

 

Thirdly, my *reward* for the effort and time I put in fixing @#!#$#-ups from other people is to be told that I can't actually sell the bikes because I don't have a flash showroom. Never mind that most local people who purchase Guzzis usually bring them out to me to have a proper PD done on them! Never mind that I get all the warranty work that pays shit. Never mind the fact that I've bought the tooling, (Not just Navigator, I'm probably the ONLY workshop in Oz, with the possible exception of Mario in Perth, that has all the neccessary tools to do a clutch replacement on an 8V and a correct CARC disassembley.). Navigator itself I only bought because the Axone tool I had been promised was a long term proposition three years ago when I bought it, for $3,000+. Then I was told it would no longer be supported and had to shell out another $3,500 for Navigator. AND I pay a 'Subscription' fee of $500 for access to the Sevicemotoguzzi site, (A joke!) and the upgrades for Navigator, a tool so useless that it doesn't even have the correct codes for reseting the service icons on the dashboards of the new bikes in!!!!!

 

NOT MUCH OF AN INCENTIVE TO KEEP BOTHERING IS THERE?

 

So why do I do it? No doubt people will say that I get discounts on parts at trade and I've bought three motorbikes at dealer cost. Yes, I have. Believe me the 'Savings' I've made don't even come close to the investment I've made! Not even the fact that having the factory tooling makes sense really. Yes, it means I can download maps, (The only thing that VDSTS can't do that Navigator does.) and early in the piece this was important to me because I knew damn well that none of the so-called dealers anywhere around here would be capable of doing it, and if they tried they'd probably insist on 'Servicing' and 'Tuning' my bike for me, (Shudder! Heaven forbid!)

 

Well right now I'm just about at the pint where I'm really feeling 'What's the point?'. And you know the answer? There isn't one. I feel I'm beating my head against a brick wall and stressing myself half to dath about something I simply don't care about any more. as I said. My bikes run fantastically. I can't see why I should try and hold up the crumbling edifice that is Piaggio service. I actually think that our importer here, by world standards, is quite good. And Dan. the tech boy, is a nice lad and is helpfull. Compared to your situation where you got royally reamed by a 'tard and the ONLY reason you eventually got your poor old tart to run half way decently was because some idiot on the other side of the world sent you the factory tooling so you could do it yourself I think it speaks volumes.

 

It doesn't alter tha fact that despite the fact that the current models are superb and the Nuovo Hi-Cam, especially in the Griso, is such a HUGE step forward for the company in terms of performance, build quality and reliability all that will count for nothing, less than nothing, if the dealership network and the factory's information dissemination system remains in the stone age.

 

I'm spending August in the USA. There is a VERY good chance that after I come back I will vanish, from the trade, from the innerneck boards, possibly, if Tony Abbot is elected as our next prime minister from any country that has a telephone system that works, plumbing or even rudimentary housing! There is a cave up on the North Eastern tip of Tasmania near Cape Grim that is looking pretty fucking attractive at the moment. The world, and especially the motorbike world and the people who inhabit it, sucks a lot at the moment. I want out I think.......

 

I'm really sorry your experience with the 8VG has soured you against it. Of course I can understand why. I just wish i could do something other than whinge to rebuild your faith in the marque. The problem is I don't think in all honesty I can......

 

Pete

Pete, don't go!!.

You'll just leave us sad retards in the sh@t.

Apart from posting some of the best,most humourous and informative pieces on any of the Guzzi websites you are also the the only fecker who knows what he,s talking about; especially about the later 4v bikes.My God, I,ve got a 1200sport as well as the v11's and if you go I may as well trade the thing now: I've owned it since April and in that time it's only been in my posession for a week.The rest of the time it,s been back at the dealers. I picked it up today, after it's been there 6 weeks waiting for a new fuel pump sender and to cure a persistant misfire and a flat spot as you blip the throttle. Suprise suprise the fuel guage is still not working, it still doesn't pick up cleanly when you blip the throttle and it still feels nothing like my 4v Griso.I was so pissed I went straight back and got a price against a new MV Agusta f4.[not bad,I'll only lose £1100.Quite a good deal considering I've only covered about 150miles on the sport]The salesman[who has a Griso4v]said why did I want to change from Guzzi.He didn't seem to appreciate my honesty especially regarding the

atrocious parts supply and the inability of the dealership to get the thing to run correctly.

You know what, the saddest thing is that I really don't want to trade the pile of shit, even for an MV Agusta.I think this is really the root of the problem. If us customers bought our bikes purely on quality of the product,after sales service etc then we would buy with our heads not our hearts and Guzzi would end up where they deserve to be.OUT OF BUSINESS.

 

 

That feels so much better.

 

It's a shame that no-one really gives a toss, but I have decided to give the 1200sport one last try but if it fails to live up to the expectations of a modern £9000 motorcycle then I will get rid of it for another marque. I will naturally still keep my V11's and Cali.I just won't bother buying a new Guzzi again.

 

Enjoy your time in the U.S.

I don't suppose you'd consider moving back to theU.K. Believe me, we really need you.

 

Andy.

[pete roper]

 

 

It's a shame that no-one really gives a toss, but I have decided to give the 1200sport one last try but if it fails to live up to the expectations of a modern £9000 motorcycle then I will get rid of it for another marque. I will naturally still keep my V11's and Cali.I just won't bother buying a new Guzzi again.

 

 

What made them diagnose a fuel pump problem for a misfire that only occurs just off idle? Kave the plug caps been replaced yet? If not I strongly suggest that you bin them and fit a pair of NGK SB05E caps and see if it makes a difference to the problem.

 

Pete

[DeBenGuzzi]

What made them diagnose a fuel pump problem for a misfire that only occurs just off idle? Kave the plug caps been replaced yet? If not I strongly suggest that you bin them and fit a pair of NGK SB05E caps and see if it makes a difference to the problem.

 

Pete

can we clone you and program that clone with all your knowledge, then sell those clones to each region of the globe, I have what appears to be a good guzzi dealer by me, and by me I mean its over an hour away at 70mph.

[jrt]

Holy bejeebus, that was a he'll of a rant, Pete. Almost as long as the FMKARH (did I get that right?)

Seriously, you need a beer. You still planning on going to the damn Yankee rally? I'll even let you buy.

 

Oh, and my useless opinion is that MG should make a water-cooled bike. And also that every driver should have to exilian the basics of an engine to qualify for a license. Not advanced theory on cam profiles..just a basic working knowledge. That would take care of a large fraction of nonsensical complaints. Then the 'company' should step up to fix the problems that are inevitable in a complex, mass market machine. Ok, I know that's unrealistic. I'm having another glass of wine now.

[luhbo]

... And also that every driver should have to exilian the basics of an engine to qualify for a license...

 

I've been told that some of those infamous Toyota "Racers" lately were followed by a helicopter and given instructions like "Turn the ignition off! It's the key below the wheel! Turn it off now! Just turn it off, don't pull it out!"

 

So, what do you expect!?!

 

Hubert

 

BTW: Would I buy a water cooled Guzzi? Maybe, why not. I usually buy a bike when I like it (and when I have the money and space for it),. This said it's not the case that there must be a Guzzi logo on the tank. What a strange idea! Do you expect just one Laverda aficionado would have bought an example of this strange Aprilia project once featured under the Laverda label? Aprilia folks would have, of course. If this watercooled bike would be as cool as I expect my bikes to be I would buy one, if not then not. I think this question is rather an academic one - just the right stuff for this section of the forum