!Update 10/15/11! Shifting still bad .Almost killed me !

[mznyc]

I've been working on this for a month or so and after a couple of uneventful(ie:no shifting problems) but spirited rides ,yesterday the false neutrals returned after bike warmed up ,about an 1.5 hrs into the ride.This makes me lose confidence big time every time I'm coming into a hot corner or stop.Just wait and cringe for the oncoming crunch of gears. Also neutral light sometimes comes on in other gears,sometimes faintly,sometimes brightly,no consistency ,but works in neutral .

About a week ago I slowed down on a 2 lane highway to take a right turn,turn signal on for about a hundred yards while braking,rear brake light works,and I hear the squealing of tires from behind me,I check mirror and get a glimpse of a car,fishtailing,I cant go anywhere as Im in a false neutral! FMe!By the grace of God she passed me on the right in the breakdown lane,while fishtailing and just scoots around me and on to whatever dream she was in.Lucky there was a car wide shoulder otherwise I'd be a grease spot.If I had been in the requested gear I would have accelerated away from her,but as it was I was a sitting duck

What Ive done so far to try to fix this,

 

Replaced fluid front and rear with Shockproof

Inspected spring,not broken

Lubed shift linkage

Adjusted eccentric adjuster,every subsequent ride that showed symptoms I made small adjustments to this on the road and it helped but problems always reoccurred on subsequent rides.

 

What I think possible causes are,

 

The PO replaced to pawl spring 2-3 times and boss arm( the main reason he sold the bike,got sick of this problem).In the box of parts he gave me there was a Racecraft spring,don't know if that's whats in there or an improved MG one.Dont know if the boss arm is the correct size.Wrong spring ,arm?

 

Play in the shift linkage,dont know what is too much play .Where and with what(washers?)do you shim it?

 

I have been leaving the Acorn lock nut off the adjuster till this is sorted,maybe that is loosening the adjust nut,but I have been making sure it's snug before I go for a ride.

 

Maybe in reinstalling the trans cover I didn't align the pre selector wheels correctly? Indents were aligned and neutral switch aligned to indent.Would it work 95% correctly if I didn't put those back in correctly?

 

 

Maybe it's just me and my style of riding,I don't miss shifts on my other bikes.The shifter peg sits about inch + above my foot which is not where I like it.I like it to sit just above the top of my foot almost touching.

 

When I started researching this I found a post where someone suggested not aligning the rear wheel when re-installing after a removal would cause shifting problems.Couldn't find that thread again and found no mention of this in either the shop or owners manual.Was this guy talking out of his arse? Does seem like the shifting got worse after I removed the wheel to do a tire change two seasons ago.I may have timeline wrong and can't prove this.

 

Any thoughts and suggestions are welcome,

Michael

[docc]

Simplest thing could be your shift lever is striking the sideplate ("pork chop") on the up shift.

 

Second simplest is to be certain your clutch action is complete: fresh fluid and no excessive play at the lever (indicating a broken master cylinder spring).

 

Never heard of realigning the wheel after removal. Well, ok, after removal of the swingarm, sure.

[mznyc]

Simplest thing could be your shift lever is striking the sideplate ("pork chop") on the up shift.

 

Second simplest is to be certain your clutch action is complete: fresh fluid and no excessive play at the lever (indicating a broken master cylinder spring).

 

Never heard of realigning the wheel after removal. Well, ok, after removal of the swingarm, sure.

Thanks docc believe I'm clear of the Pork Chop,clutch has no excessive play.I forgot to mention that I haven't changed clutch fluid yet,so that may help.Only have about 20k on bike and don't abuse the clutch so as others have suggested before I hope clutch is not worn.

If you apply slight pressure with the top of your foot to the bottom of the shifter right after a gear change you feel pressure slowly build down on the shifter.if you try to change gears before this pressure builds you will almost always hit a FN Don't know if this is normal or matters,..

Michael

[Baldini]

I think the alignment issue you're refering to relates to the driveshaft. Front/back of driveshaft must be aligned so that UJ's are in same plane. There should be paint marks to assist, but these may have gone?

See latter pages of this discussion:

http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=15638

 

However, this sounds like a gearbox or clutch issue.

 

Did the bike used to shift well, even when hot? You mention shift deteriorated after riding a while, was it all good up to that point? Is clutch action good - fully disengaging when hot?

 

KB

[mznyc]

I think the alignment issue you're refering to relates to the driveshaft. Front/back of driveshaft must be aligned so that UJ's are in same plane. There should be paint marks to assist, but these may have gone?

See latter pages of this discussion:

http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=15638

 

However, this sounds like a gearbox or clutch issue.

 

Did the bike used to shift well, even when hot? You mention shift deteriorated after riding a while, was it all good up to that point? Is clutch action good - fully disengaging when hot?

 

KB

 

Hi KB,In that thread it definitely referred to rear wheel removal not the shaft ,that's why it stood out to me as I hadn't heard that before.Unfortunately if you do a "transmission" search you get a lot of results and I haven't been able to find it again.Ive never removed the drive shaft.Clutch action feels normal.

On the way home from picking up the bike,4 years ago,after stopping at a toll booth ,it got stuck in 1st gear,pulled over and after a minute or so working the shifter got it shifting again.This has happened a dozen times over the four years no rhyme or reason when it would happen.I would also occasionally hit a false neutral.I chalked this up to Guze quirkiness. Last year it became almost a regular occurrence,stuck gear/FN, almost every ride so I decided to do the fluid change and inspection.

When I did the "transmission/pawl spring" search I found several threads from the PO,(dbdicker) and it was clear that this frustrated him and was one of the reasons he decided to sell it.I don't want this to happen to me.

Thanks,

Michael

[waspp]

Micheal

 

FWIW when I replaced the shift spring at about 15k miles I used a cannon racecraft spring. I did have issues with the shifter sticking and generally not shifting like it should. After removing the cover several times I finally set the cannon spring on top of the broken factory spring and noticed the shape was different so I bent the cannon spring to the shape of the old one and its worked pretty well for several thousand miles.

 

Hal

[mznyc]

Micheal

 

FWIW when I replaced the shift spring at about 15k miles I used a cannon racecraft spring. I did have issues with the shifter sticking and generally not shifting like it should. After removing the cover several times I finally set the cannon spring on top of the broken factory spring and noticed the shape was different so I bent the cannon spring to the shape of the old one and its worked pretty well for several thousand miles.

 

Hal

Thanks Hal.I had seen that some people had the Racecraft's springs fail,including PO.When I had the cover off,I probably should have pulled it and measured it.I have a new MG spring.

If I pull cover again,I would prefer not to do the "roadside" method of getting the cover off as I cant get RDSP locally.Could I dump the new fluid and reuse it?

Thanks,

Michael

[gavo]

I have the same or similar problem except mine only happens when I shift down several gears for eg a tight corner. If I try push it into the lower gear from the false neutral it grinds badly, I can change back up a gear. I've also checked linkages, pawl spring, clutch action to no avail. Sometimes it seems to drop into the lower gear after I've released the clutch giving a very jerky downshift . I thought maybe rider technique although I don't have a problem on any other bike(and I've been riding for 40 yrs) so I made a deliberate effort to make downshift slow and positive and this has helped but not completely fixed the problem. I've convinced myself that this is a clunker gearbox not built for rapid up and down the gearbox work.

[mznyc]

****Update***

I checked to see if shifter was making contact with porkchop and was not the case.While looking for something in shed I found box of spare parts from PO.It had Cannon Racecraft spring in a labeled open package,so don't know if it's an actual Cannon spring.I also ordered a MG spring from MG Cycle a while back in anticipation of opening cover,and don't know if this spring is the more recent MG part.Dont have camera now so cant take a good pic but they are different.Slightly different shape hook,length of arm,and loop.I know PO changed spring a couple times so dont know what was the last one installed was.I know I can measure it I just dont have a tool to get an accurate reading.

Sooo,

I guess I gotta open the cover again,bummer,......

Any thoughts would be more than welcome,

Belfast,Baldini,Greg,,?

Thanks

Michael

[docc]

Do Scuras really have *clutch* issues? Could that be "it?"

[mznyc]

Do Scuras really have *clutch* issues? Could that be "it?"

Sure docc,but PO had the same problems with low mileage as the first owner.Still only has about 20k on it now and I haven't abused it,so I don't think the clutch is spent,maybe design flaw.

I remember reading that many people had problems with the replacement springs.So hoping it's just that,since I have to slightly different springs in hand.Was hoping not to do a clutch job until I had a lot more mileage on her.

[docc]

I'm not the Scura clutch expert. But, I do remember some issues with the single plate clutch and its flywheel. Serious enough not to ignore the early warning signs.

 

Sure, could be spring/ boss size stuff, but let's look further into the clutch possibilities.

 

As we say here in the South, "don' wantcha gittin kilt . . ."

 

Even if it means a clutch job . . .

[Baldini]

The problem is that you select occasional false neutrals? Not that it slips out of gear once engaged?

If, when you first get the false neutral, you disengage the clutch again (blipping throttle to get revs right as necessary) & try to get the gear does it engage ok? After making a change sometimes, does lever feel solid - ie not returned?

 

Does problem only occur when motor is hot?

 

I'm no expert, but it seems to me first places to look are gearchange mechanism, clutch action or technique rather than the box itself.

 

I have false neutrals on mine but always felt it's just me being sloppy. I guess, knowing this happens, you adjust to feeling for positive engagement. When slowing on a closed throttle, motor feels very different gear engaged (engine braking), to neutral. I guess you have to ask, is there a problem specific to your bike, or is it a characteristic of the model & if so can it be improved by adjustment of parts?

 

I had a couple of pawl arm springs break & I only noticed any change of action pretty much immediately before failure. Are you in touch w PO - if he didn't replace pawl arm or turn down spring pivot to correct size, it should be done or spring is likely to break anyhow. If I understand correctly, you have not been inside box at all?

 

I have never fiddled with adjuster screw on sideplate (acorn nut) but there has been discussion here re this.

 

There is reams of stuff on here re the Scura clutch. Some flywheels broke up but the clutch, from what I can make out, functioned normally until this point. If this is a clutch related problem it sounds more likely to be related to the activating mechanism. Michael, is your clutch smooth in action & does it fully disengage drive when lever is pulled in?

 

Sorry I can't offer more help, but I'm no mechanic & tend to have to have something in front of me to figure it out.

[Tom M]

****Update***

I checked to see if shifter was making contact with porkchop and was not the case.While looking for something in shed I found box of spare parts from PO.It had Cannon Racecraft spring in a labeled open package,so don't know if it's an actual Cannon spring.I also ordered a MG spring from MG Cycle a while back in anticipation of opening cover,and don't know if this spring is the more recent MG part.Dont have camera now so cant take a good pic but they are different.Slightly different shape hook,length of arm,and loop.I know PO changed spring a couple times so dont know what was the last one installed was.I know I can measure it I just dont have a tool to get an accurate reading.

Sooo,

I guess I gotta open the cover again,bummer,......

Any thoughts would be more than welcome,

Belfast,Baldini,Greg,,?

Thanks

Michael

 

I think you can check the wire diameter to tell the difference between the Cannon Racecraft spring and the Guzzi springs. The Cannon spring that I had was made from thicker wire than either of the Guzzi springs, stock or "improved". From memory I got 15k miles out of the stock spring and 7k out of the Cannon spring. The improved Guzzi spring has about 9k on it now.

 

 

This should be a pic of the broken Cannon spring and the new Guzzi spring. I posted this pic with a description quite a while back but I can't find the thread with the search function. Maybe it's too old

 

[mznyc]

The problem is that you select occasional false neutrals? Yes

Not that it slips out of gear once engaged? Yes

If, when you first get the false neutral, you disengage the clutch again (blipping throttle to get revs right as necessary) & try to get the gear does it engage ok? Yes

After making a change sometimes, does lever feel solid - ie not returned? Yes

 

Does problem only occur when motor is hot? Yes

 

I guess you have to ask, is there a problem specific to your bike, or is it a characteristic of the model & if so can it be improved by adjustment of parts? Yup,that's what I'm asking

 

If I understand correctly, you have not been inside box at all? Just had cover off

Michael, is your clutch smooth in action & does it fully disengage drive when lever is pulled in? Yes

 

 

Thanks Bal

Hopefully my answers help solve the mystery

 

 

 

I think you can check the wire diameter to tell the difference between the Cannon Racecraft spring and the Guzzi springs. The Cannon spring that I had was made from thicker wire than either of the Guzzi springs, stock or "improved". From memory I got 15k miles out of the stock spring and 7k out of the Cannon spring. The improved Guzzi spring has about 9k on it now.

 

Thanks Tom I'll have a look at it when I open it up.Here's some pics of what I know is a new MG spring and what I believe is a Cannon,