Gearchanges

[Richard]

I know that there was a topic about this earlier on, but I can't find it, so......

 

My 2003 Rosso Corsa sometimes has a very clunky up and down shift. Other times it's as sweet as a nut. Has anyone else had issues like this, esp. in the UK? Does anyone know what this could be, (large change in temperatures between cold sitting in my garage and riding?!) and does anyone know of a solution, please?

 

Cheers,

 

Richard

 

Btw, I hope everyone had a great Christmas and New Year, unfortunately Santa didn't bring me that MGS-01 I asked for.... and I'd been such a good boy this year....!!!

[Murray]

When was you gear oild changed more importantly when was your final drive oil last changed. Biggest effect on shift quality is condition of final drive oil with my 1100 sport and the old five speeder. I usally cahnge the final drive oil at least every 5000kms

[Ouiji Veck]

Or linkage..

Even aware of this I rode most of 30 miles to

my friends house thinkin' "Aww crap..whats with the tranny"

Then the light bulb went on..got to his house, hosed the linkage

with some white lithium...zing zang zowwiee...

Yours may need a little wrench attention also.

Keep us posted.

[Guest ratchethack]

Or linkage..

Yeah, wot Weej said.

 

Between my '00 Sport and my Pal's '04 LM, we're 2 f'er 2 with the same experience:

 

1. The shift linkage bolt at the spherical joint on the outboard end of the transmission arm (behind the starter motor) has a nut that backs out gradually, resulting in progressively sloppier shifting. It's so gradual that it'll creep up on you unnoticed. Suddenly, you realize you've begun to miss shifts in a manner completely unlike you ever did before, no matter how deliberately you shift. You can easily check its condition visually by carefully looking under the starter motor and working the shift lever.

 

2. The shift lever pivot shaft itself is DRY from Mandello. It benefits considerably from lube and a proper end-float adjustment. Untended to, it also tends to get loose and sloppy.

 

3. Thorough disassembly of the linkage, cleaning, lubing (boat trailer wheel bearing grease being my fav. for this kinda thing), and re-installation with threadlocker is a small procedure that I'd recommend. Yes, despite appearances, you need to remove the starter motor, and yes, it's a VERY good idea to disconnect the battery first.

 

-- Not a trace of a shifting problem since, in both cases.

[Richard]

All oils were changed about 500 miles ago with the 12000 mile service. I had the side cover off just after the service to replace the pawl return spring, but had no issues with gear changing after that. I have just had a look at the linkage and it does appear to be a little floppy, so I will have a look at that in the morning when I can see it! I will keep you posted......

[Guest Nigelstephens]

I have a Sport I 1997 and understand your problem.

When cold the changes are a dream. When hot (engine 70C plus) and the gearbox is upto temp (over a 30+ minute time) geat changes get worse.

 

My conclusion is that oil viscosity or changes in dimensions within the box are the cause. In the UK we don't have the choise of Yuk fat or any of the alternatives. Its just EP80/90W.

 

The linkage on mine I have greased, tightened and adjusted. On the downward shift it never misses. The pedal movement takes it to within a millimetre of the ali casting that fixes to the frame and engine.

The up shift is problematic when hot. I have to deliberately move the pedal behond what is natural movement for my foot to make sure it goes into gear.

 

Is there a way to adjust the upshift without affecting the downshift by the adjuster is one question that comes to mind. But I dont want to highjack the original thread.

[Guest ratchethack]

Is there a way to adjust the upshift without affecting the downshift by the adjuster is one question that comes to mind. But I dont want to highjack the original thread.

Nige, I don't know if the Sporti's have this, but V-11's have a two-position linkage mount provision at the inboard end of the shift lever, which gives you an option of long or short throw. Since your lever goes to within 1 mm of the pork chop, I reckon you either have a unique ergonomic requirement, or it could be in the long-throw position, if the option is available on your Sporti. The short-throw position works best for me. I don't think anyone I know uses the long-throw position.

 

I've made a custom shifter foot piece with a broad, flat contact point underneath, and a normal-looking contact point on top. This makes for a far more comfortable upshift with shoes with soft uppers. You might consider a larger foot piece replacement. I made mine to accept a short length of black hose for a cover. Works like a Champ.

 

[Richard]

I have a Sport I 1997 and understand your problem.

When cold the changes are a dream. When hot (engine 70C plus) and the gearbox is upto temp (over a 30+ minute time) geat changes get worse.

 

My conclusion is that oil viscosity or changes in dimensions within the box are the cause. In the UK we don't have the choise of Yuk fat or any of the alternatives. Its just EP80/90W.

 

The linkage on mine I have greased, tightened and adjusted. On the downward shift it never misses. The pedal movement takes it to within a millimetre of the ali casting that fixes to the frame and engine.

The up shift is problematic when hot. I have to deliberately move the pedal behond what is natural movement for my foot to make sure it goes into gear.

 

Is there a way to adjust the upshift without affecting the downshift by the adjuster is one question that comes to mind. But I dont want to highjack the original thread.

My other bike, a 1996 Sport i, is the same as yours - I'm about to try a new oil in it and will let you know if this makes a difference, just need to get the thing back into one piece first!!

[gallo_se]

I'd say all the suggestions you received are good, a little tip that I noticed makes the gearshift a lot smoother is adding Sintoflon gearlube to the oil, it really works. I have it on the california as well, and as soon as I change the final transmission oil I'm going to add it there as well.

[Guest Gary Cheek]

Intermittent clunkies can also have a dragging clutch at the root of the problem.

[Guest Nigelstephens]

Rachetcheck

Would you measure the length from the centre of the pivot bolt to the gear link takeoff?

I dont have a second position on my lever but am thinking of doing my own mod.

[Guest ratchethack]

Rachetcheck

Would you measure the length from the centre of the pivot bolt to the gear link takeoff?

I dont have a second position on my lever but am thinking of doing my own mod.

Nige, I put a caliper on it and got 53 mm center to center in the "short throw" position, the larger radius mounting point of the two options on the Sport.

 

If I were to fab up a custom mounting point, I'd consider going for something around 58 mm for an even shorter throw, but I wouldn't even think about doing this without making a flat contact area on the upshift side of the shifter, as I've done. Just to clarify, I'm referring to the bottom of the rubber "working" end of the lever. I made a piece out of 1" round delrin stock, flattened on one side, using the stock button-head bolt to lock it down tight it so it can't turn. As I mentioned above, I put a piece of black hose over it. The angle of the flat is important for comfort, see photo below. Without this modification, by my experience, going to this short of a throw (using the 58 mm position) would be asking for painfully hard upshifts, unless you always ride with boots with fairly stiff uppers.

 

Let me know how yours works out if you go over 53 mm. I may decide to fab up an extension if you like yours.

[Guest Nigelstephens]

Nige, I put a caliper on it and got 53 mm center to center in the "short throw" position, the larger radius mounting point of the two options on the Sport.

 

If I were to fab up a custom mounting point, I'd consider going for something around 58 mm for an even shorter throw, but I wouldn't even think about doing this without making a flat contact area on the upshift side of the shifter, as I've done. Just to clarify, I'm referring to the bottom of the rubber "working" end of the lever. I made a piece out of 1" round delrin stock, flattened on one side, using the stock button-head bolt to lock it down tight it so it can't turn. As I mentioned above, I put a piece of black hose over it. The angle of the flat is important for comfort, see photo below. Without this modification, by my experience, going to this short of a throw (using the 58 mm position) would be asking for painfully hard upshifts, unless you always ride with boots with fairly stiff uppers.

 

Let me know how yours works out if you go over 53 mm. I may decide to fab up an extension if you like yours.

 

I made a mod to the gear lever. The distance stock was 44 mm between pivot and linkage centres.

The mod was to hacksaw of the gear linkage boss and to file flat. Then to drill and tap 6mm hole in the gear lever.

I turned a short length of ali and drilled two holes through the length. One was tapped to 6mm for the gear linkage and the other made clearance size for a 6mm cap head bolt. I used a crinckle washer (I forgot name) to stop the ali block moving when tight. The final distance I ended up with was 51mm. I tried 54mm but this was too hard to put into gear.

In addition, I moved the gearbox lever on its splines one position downward. This has the affect of increasing the leverage when shifting up and decreasing when shifting down. Up is harder to shift into on mine so this has made quite a difference making it slightly easier after the adjustment.

 

See pick.

 

[Guest ratchethack]

Nicely done Nige. Thanks for the photos. It hadn't occurred to me that the 5-speed box has an entirely different setup, with the shift shaft parallel to the mainshaft, rather than at 90 degrees, as it is with the 6-speed box. It occurs to me that your shift shaft arm may also be shorter. Of course the operating principles are the same. This gives me an idea for an adjustable radius linkage similar to what you've done. Good food f'er thought. Many thanks.

[Greg Field]

Intermittent clunkies can also have a dragging clutch at the root of the problem.

 

I second what Gary said. Especially so on any Guzzi with a four- or five-speed trans. In my experience, clutches that do not drag when cold can drag very much when hot. Heat was mentioned as a symptom in the case of the Sport 1100, so I'd think a look at clutch adjustment is indicated. If that doesn't work, a look at the clutch components.