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Hey I must tell the wife that for this reason I have to get out and ride more. A pity its a long holiday weekend here but rain forecast the whole three days.

I can bring more material and knowledge to the topic; as said before, o'rings have always been at the core of the many failures we had to contend with. The oilfield environment always was a nice playing ground given the slue of effluents and conditions the o'rings had to be submitted to. This is one of the reason my company worked with chemical companies to get the best compound to address said conditions. But for our purpose, Nitrile should suffice to cover the vast majority of our application. The fluid used in brake lines may be incompatible with Nitrile. The color of certain o'rings may be added for compound identification..

That's a good chart. It would seem that most O-rings on motorcycles are Nitrile. But those green ones on the oil line fittings must be Highly Saturated Nitrile. And the seals in brake calipers and pistons must be Ethylene Propylene. What kind of O-ring can seal a rabbit hole?

Those look like cracks to me. I would look at them long and hard before deciding they were sound.

I think it's a good idea to spacer up the rear tank mount to stop the tank rubbing the paint off the side covers. The covers are very prone to cracking around the mount holes and it's a material thats very hard to repair even with plastic welding. The solution is to elongate the holes nicely esp the top one which allows the cover to fit without stressing the thing. I can supply an image if you want to do it. Ciao

I've given up trying to be O-ring efficient and started an O-ring parts bin..right next to the bin containing a myriad of Cu sealing washers. First addition...99 #112'S of the Viton persuasion. Those of unknown pedigree I use in place of those plastic washers generally used where bodywork is involved. Keeping track of those things is worse than trying to find a 10mm socket.....

Ok...bit of a ride to Taupo the other day. Another nice one

Adventure Bike track

Congestion on the road from Mt Aspiring

Well, it’s “Ground Hog Day” here in The States and everyone knows what that means. 💨 Halfway through winter and time to think about riding !

I’ve had 2 sets of pork chops powder coated at a local powder coating shop. They shot blasted the old finish off, and masked the threads with excellent results. Much more durable than the original red paint (these are off red frame bikes), and no issues with longevity. This one was done 2 years ago and it’s pristine

I've had one set powder coated flat black and another candy apple red. I recommend it for durability, looks, and ease of cleaning. The only problem is if they get a little powder in the fine threads for the swingarm pivots. Ask the powder coater to be extra careful with the masking there. If they do get powder on the threads, I found that Rust Oleum's Aircraft Remover will dissolve it. Just dab it in the threads with a Q-tip, wipe out the worst of it, then run one of the pivot pins all the way through from the inside. BTW - that Aircraft Remover is the only chemical that has damaged the epoxy coating on my garage floor.

No Idea what this is, however Texas is spawning in Tennessee... Buc-ee's has turned out to be so popular in Texas that road trips always include a stop in one of their locations. Whoever invented the concept was genius!!! Road Trip Wonderland Buc-ee’s Sevierville, Tennessee Location Will Be the World’s Largest Convenience Store

So first. I LOVE that this is happening in the laundry room. Answers and observations: Side panels usually fit well, but some can be a bit fiddly. They do tuck under the tank, so even if all the screws rattle out, they will not blow away while riding. The back of the tranny and subframe are quite a mess... have fun with that. And while you're at it, check that lower shock mount carefully. It looks like the original Sachs, which is prone to crack the lower mount. That hugger damage is common. My Nero Corsa came with a rear rack that used extra-long bolts and mangled the rear wheel hugger. This would be a good time to install one of those remote clutch bleeder hoses if you feel like spending $70. Otherwise, this is a good time to flush the clutch fluid while you can easily reach the bleeder.

My Scura's did that. Started with a cough. Thought maybe I needed a thottlebody synch but at a closer look... It IS 20 year old rubber... Help up pretty well for be being a bike that spent its life in dry weather its entire life..

Let's get some housekeeping out of the way so we can have some fun . . . Weekend after US Labor Day (Sept. 9-11, 2022) Tellico Plains ,TN, USA > Get There. Bring Tools. < While many SpineRiders stay at The Lodge at Tellico, there are other places to stay or camp. It is far better to perform TechSessions in the garage at The Lodge rather than a pull-off on the Cherohala or some remote motorcycle shop down in Georgia. Prep well. "Bring Tools" . . . There is the whole "non-event", and "this ain't the rally you thought you were getting a T-shirt for" thing . . . "It's just an idea" To wit: This is not a rally, event, or function of V11LeMans.com. It is an idea about riding, or meeting interested people. It is an idea only. There is no plan, no registration, no stickers, T-shirts, merchandise, door prizes, meals, poker runs, routes, organization, or support. Just discussion and sharing. There is no affiliation or responsibility, expressed or implied, with or by V11Lemans.com, its owner(s), Administrators, moderators, members, pets, pocket mice, or any other entity. If being at The US Appalachian Divide in September feels like a good idea to you, look forward to sharing ideas. The idea of ideas has been around for a while. I do love George Bernard Shaw's take: "If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchange these apples, then you and I will still each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange these ideas, then each of us will have two ideas."

I have a couple of boxes of nitrile o-rings, but no matter what, I still have to go out to the local seal shop for a specific size that I don't have. I stopped being so picky about buying OEM o-rings after a visit to Moto International in Seattle USA. I asked for seals on the fuel injectors. The parts guy grabbed an old injector from their workshop, then pulled the right size seals from an assortment box. Then I realized that Moto Guzzi would use standard sizes where possible to keep the costs down. As for FKM, yes it can be better (but more expensive) in some applications, but since I see nitrile lasting 20 years, a new nitrile seal should last another 20 years.

O'ring have played a big part in my professional career. We should call them by their real name: tore joints. I remember the space shuttle catastrophe. Cold make o'rings brittle. I would go Nitrile 70 or 80 if really pushed. I was surprised to see the price from Parker. I was expecting something in cents, not 2+ dollars. We could make a table with the size of the mostly used Guzzi o'rings. The oil filter cover one can justify a purchase of 6. I would never reuse an o'ring. I systematically replace them. Not worth the saving. Even if the o'ring looks ok, the temperature changes affect the molecular integrity. I had a leak at that very oil filter cover on my Le Mans.

@Scud The size is normalized. Parker is an o'ring supplier from which we got all our o'rings. There are different Nitriles strength. Viton is more resilient to temperature. Here's a link to the Parker website which will ultimately help you finding whatever o'ring you need: http://solutions.parker.com/ORingSelector

Don't stop now! It just snowed a fourth time here in January. We're counting on you guys to keep our fires kindled! Pay you back in June . . .

I assume so from my calculations but I'm open to being corrected by attributable material. In broad terms it's not a major issue if my actual figures aren't exactly correct it's more about the differential between the various permutations based on the same baseline data I used. Ciao

My V11 Sport is the 2003 model sold as a 2004. It has the 43mm Marzocchi forks & is the KT model. So from your discussion I understand that, for my bike, the head angle is 25*, the offset is 40 mm. Now written in my notes, from where I don’t know, I have a trail of 103mm. Should that be 96mm ? Having the Griso & the V11, I’m trying to educate myself about these details, as the two bikes steer differently & trying to understand the mathematics behind the riding feel. Especially as I change the forks & potentially the geometry.

Good question. I've dealt with orings of various types and materials all my life in aviation and motorcycles and cars. We had at one point issues with leading edge actuators leaking hydraulic fluid on long flights but were fine on shorter flights of sub3 hours. Of course when they did leak in cruise on the longer flights by the time the aircraft got on the ground the leak had disappeared. So long cruise and we had passengers taking images through the cabin windows of hydraulic oil coming off the trailing off the wing and when the aircraft arrived at the next port zero leaks. Quite frustrating to deal with from a certification perspective. The reason? Well the manufacturer had decided to change the actuator oring material to "something better" problem was the "something better" wasn't actually that great at -45 deg C 42,000' foot cruise for more than a few hours. Cold soak set in and so did the leaks. Long descant to warmer air for landing and the problem disappeared. With regards to motorcycles the applications are pretty straight forward and as is the case in situations like this when all the technical intricacies and materials start to get delved into by people I simply go back to what has actually worked in previous practice. Theory and intricate detail on form function and material has it's place of course but apart from the transition to FKM/Viton for engines from Nitrile everything else seems to work acceptably well. The one interesting exception that needs to be considered on modern engines though that catches many mechanics esp home mechanics out is the use now of Flurosilicon seals for cranks and some other areas. Lubricating these when installing actually causes them to leak. They rely on being installed dry and the first rotations of the shaft deposits material from the seal onto the shaft and creates the sealing effect. If you don't read the manual and aren't aware you can have a major job on your hands to do the seal replacement all over again. Ciao

sorry. As you can see it's slotted a fair way to relieve the stress. Best image I have.

My Greenies pork chops, powder coated around a year agp

I've never done my own media blasting or powder coating. I use a local shop. All they ask is that parts are stripped of seals and bearings and totally degreased. They strip the old finish off as part of the service. If you're referring to the deep-looking finish of the candy-apple parts I had done, that was a multi-stage powder coat and more expensive than the flat black. Chemical and mechanical for getting powder coat out of threads - stripper plus run a bolt through the treads with the stripper still in.

FWIW, the cracks in the finish "may" have been caused by the pork chop taking a hit. If it were mine, I'd NDT it. Hard to tell from a picture, of course.

@80CX100 Here's a table that can be used; for your application the fluid should be CO2 Gas; Viton is your best choice. You have to keep in mind that "cycling" ages your o'ring. Not that Kalrez is not good for low temperatures. I am not factoring pressure and differential pressure either.

What is the maximum temperature the exhaust cross over experiences? The most resistant compound to temperature is Kalrez.

Any thread that includes a reference to Malbec and motorcycles is worthy of a gold star! Quite creative way to setup an indoor workshop!

I've been pointing this out for years to people. A fancy solid colour/carbon look tank scratch pad saves the scratches but then you have an issue with paint fade. So you need to buy a spare to replace it in time AND replace it perfectly aligned with the old one. Good luck with that. The best option? A clear scratch pad like I've always used. May look less sexy/trendy but a much smarter option. Make yourself a new solid pad thats slightly larger than the removed one that compensates for the off centre issue. Then you can have a centred pad that covers the fading paint. Ciao

Meanwhile, one thing that bothered me was that the tank grip was put on askew. Not so noticeable in this pic, but fairly obvious from some angles. Pad came off, but discoloration appears permanent. Guess I'll be looking for a slightly larger pad. Will start a new thread on pork chops.

So here's my calculation docc. A std 1100ie Sport 26deg/45mm offset combination has approx trail of 96mm. If someone has the guaranteed actual figure let me know. Working on the same assumptions for fork length and front tyre OD a std V11 Sport with a 25deg/40mm offset triple also has 96mm trail. Now if you use a set of 1100ie Sport triples with 45mm offset on the V11 Sport so you get a 25deg/45mm offset combo you end up with 90mm of trail. A significant difference towards the "sharper steering" end of the spectrum. My 1198 has 30mm offset aftermarket triple clamps down from the std 36mm offset so it steers better on the track and doesn't push the front on corner exit on the throttle. That 6mm on the Ducati makes a lot of difference to the steering so 5mm offset and 6mm trail on the Guzzi V11 is a significant change to the steering and stability. I think this is probably whats happened back on the early bikes. We'll know for certain when I pull the triples on my bike after I get the replacement forks sorted and I can measure the supposed "cant" on my bikes original triples. If you had a std V11 Sport 25/40 set up and canted the triples 1/2 deg you'd go from 96mm to 103mm trail. If you instead opened the head angle to 25.5 you'd go from 96mm to 99mm trail. If you had 1100ie 45mm triples on a V11 sport and you "canted" the triples 1/2 degree you'd end up with 97.5mm trail from 90mm. Seems to me the most likely scenario is they started with 1100ie Sport triples at 45mm offset and then due to customer/journalist feedback increased the trail from 90mm to 96mm by virtue of 40mm offset triple clamps to bring the figures back to the same as a std 1100ie Sport. Ciao

I'm in. And I have a new password!

"Ground Hog Day" here means the dead of winter and high hopes to ride again. Many thanks to our South'n-Hemi brothers to keep us encouraged!

Can confirm the V11's have 40mm offset docc. If you look at an image of an 1100ie Sport the triples look identical but do in fact measure 45mm offset. Ciao

Tank, sidecovers, airbox ? But not necessarily the swingarm. (Although, it might be a good time to perform all of the swingarm/drivehaft/ U-joint/ clutch bleed maintenance?)

Sport 1100's had 45mm offset triple clamps on a 26deg head angle from what I can see. The V11 Sport has a 25 deg head angle and 40mm offset clamps. If you had 45mm offset triples on a 25 deg frame it would be intrinsically less stable compared to the 45X26 due to the greatly reduced trail not only from the steeper head angle but also the extra offset. If Guzzi originally fitted Sport 1100ie triple clamps at 45mm off set on the 25 deg V11 frame maybe they were a little too twitchy so they went for 40mm offset forks to increase the trail and get some stability back on the later bikes. Ciao

One last disclaimer . . . Apologies to true Rallye Raiders for borrowing this reference for our relatively safe, predictable, and well fed comodo ritrovo. "SpineRaid" is just such a catchy phrase compared to calling this "Another Hopeful Gathering of Dedicated Moto Guzzi V11 Beta Testers in Action." I mean, I can't even make an acronym out of that without sounding like a cat choking on a hairball . . . AHGoDMGV11BTiA (In print, that actually looks like a pretty secure password . . . )

Hold on here, 250F is 121C and some BB engines can see 140 deg C bulk oil temp under some conditions and 100 deg C is common. Nitrile is good to around 100 deg C which is ok for an easy to replace oring like this or on the filter where it's going to be replaced regularly but just about everywhere on an engine a Nitrile oring is at it's limit. This is why Guzzi have been slowly phasing them out for FKM seals which Ducati did years ago as well. Ciao

There is hope . . .

This is exactly what I wanted to avoid - buying a box of assorted for convenience, and not being able to actually use them.

Don't know if this helps, but there is an O-ring specialist in the Czech Republic (Bohemia Seal). They stock an amazing variety of sizes and materials in O-rings and all manner of seals. They sell primarily on eBay. They came to my rescue when I needed a very specific O-ring for a SRAM 9.0 rear derailleur I was modifying. https://www.ebay.com/str/bohemiasealoring/O-ring-inner-dia-from-10-to-20/_i.html?store_cat=25950217018

Let's work with an example; When you change the oil filter on a V11, lets take the oil filter access cover oring. I have that oring on hand, so I can measure it with my vernier caliper; The o'ring cross-section is 3.5mm; which correspond to 3.53mm from the table. Measuring the ID is a bit more difficult, but it is around 95mm; the closest I get is 94.84mm from the table. It corresponds to Parker size 2-240. On a funny note, if I was still in my company, I could use a B-17308 o'ring; which is the reference my company gave to that o'ring size, for our application. Most likely a Viton o'ring because our tools are submitted to high pressures. Nitrile would deform and leak. Let's go to the Parker site; for this o'ring size; I select Nitrile and 70 durometer; the cheapest. Since this o'ring is just sealing one direction and temperature is below 250F, I would not need Viton. I have ran oil field tools in oil wells for 35 years, and changing o'rings after each run. That oring costs 3.64 USD at MG-Cycle currently. So the biggest job, is to find the size of the o'rings you want to stock. Use the Parker sizing tool which is easier than my tables. We had those tables back then, because we did not always have maintenance manuals, so we had to find o'rings using cross references and/or sizes.

Hmm, I’m seeing @Scud’s messaging as available (?) [edit: @FreyZI, click on Scud's username to open his profile. In the banner at the top click on "Message" and see if it opens a messaging window for you . . . ] A spring swap at a SpineRaid…. ……best avert your eyes!

Yep, the "hairline" cracks on the intake rubbers are commonly superficial. Until they are not . . . (Still hoping my months-old Harper backorder will, one day, come through . . . )

Crap............. that would have been good to attend. Still caged up here in Russia. Ciao