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I remember one SSR we rode through the park. Once, only. We didn't park. Unless that is how you would describe the pace of the traffic . . .

This is one of those cases where I probably should have not touched the TPS since I didn't have any issues, no cough prior to deciding to check the TPS setting...it was the 1 step I had never done in the Tank Off Checklist...but unfortunately when I set it to the recommended 0.157 at full close, and buttoned everything up again, that's when my cough appeared for the first time. Anyway, hopefully I'll be able to solve it with checking everything again. Last night I checked again some items and I found an interesting item that may have been overlooked before and that was the left hand side spark plug wire wasn't entirely plugged in all of the way to the ignition coil, so I'm wondering if that will help once I get it all buttoned up again.

I will endeavor to take pictures of me with a beer in the company of any Guzzista’s I meet with motorbikes in the background. 👍

I just spent the prior evening reading/re-reading all 56 pages of this thread, and although it has been said many times; Scud and Chuck deserve a huge "thank you" for all the hard work and perseverance to see this project through to the end. So now with a few years in production, and it looks like at least 10s of thousands of miles of real-world use, it appears that we haven't heard of any of the improved springs failing?

Just saw this on WG; parking passes required for Great Smoky Mountains National Park. https://www.nps.gov/grsm/planyourvisit/fees.htm

It won't hurt to make sure it is buttoned up ! Make sure you check the continuity of the entire circuit , like we talked about , too . Measure the resistance of both sides to get a baseline for a proper value .

Just curious. I wonder if there is a mark (or memory) of how far the TPS was moved during the reset and if it could be returned to the original position? Is it possible to set the TPS by ear and to continually adjust it until the cough went away? Perhaps it would be good to make a pen marker when adjusting. My bike has a low rpm power crater and occasional cough when I take off. It was shown on a dyno. I have to be careful sometime because it's right when I get my feet on the pegs and taking off. I have to be vigilant on the throttle. New plugs really help.

Yup. When I removed it to drain oil it had metal fragments attached to it. Not a nice sight

IDK if it has ever been replaced but , it would be a good idea to install a new fuel filter and have that out of the way .

Nothing doing with the V11’s today, I did treat the Griso to a carbon fibre hugger, which I was quite impressed with. Easy to fit, lightweight, looks good. Which reminded me to ask if anything was developing / progressing about the V11 carbon fibre pillion seat humps

it's a great event and perfect venue. See you there!

Do you have a drain bung with a magnet in it? Just in case there is still a few bits in there.

Pick up completed gearbox yesterday. Great service from Vince. 2 weeks earlier than I expected and cheaper Got some painting to do before I re fit. Paint flaking off from top & bottom of gearbox plus some touch ups to swingarm etc

I think I dated a girl in college with a history like this . . .

Re-engineering the Shift Spring

Just talked with the guys at the spring company. It seems their manufacturing tolerances are not quite as tight as Chuck's experience. However, we have sorted it out and they are making a new batch of springs at a 75% discount from the original order. This is based on my assertion that three flaws were their fault, and one flaw was our fault. So we are adding a little to the unit cost of the springs. They can ship to me within 2 weeks. I don't want money from anyone until we verify that we have in-spec springs in-hand. After that, I'll give all the ordering details.

The US missed a great opportunity to go all metric in the 1970s. It's a far better system and easier to work with. Feet, fractional inches, quarts, tablespoons, miles, dozens, pounds, Fahrenheit temperatures... I'd gladly get rid of all of it (especially ounces, where we stupidly use the same word for weight and volume). Just make everything base-ten. End of rant.

Well I grew up with both systems as well as a career working on Boeing and Airbus jets so I'm comfortable in both. For bearing clearances and such I tend to think in imperial but for everything else its metric. Larger dimensions ( I mean over about 0.040") are a pain in the arse in Imperial. 65mm is a hell of a lot easier to deal with than 2 and 9/16" for mine. Ciao

Here is Chuck's drawing. I thought it would be worth having this in the "permanent record."

Thanks Phil. I/we appreciate that. I was going to post last night, but was kind of upset about what I found when I started seriously checking the spring as delivered. The wire diameter is correct. Just kidding.. there is more that is correct. The location of the bend on the long arm is good. I decided to wind another 15 degrees on one.. 2018-01-31_02-35-10 by Charles Stottlemyer, on Flickr You can see how much longer the short arm is than the sample I gave them.. no matter that I screwed up and tagged the wrong place when dimensioning. Installed it on the shifter gizmo, and measured. 2018-02-01_10-28-20 by Charles Stottlemyer, on Flickr You can see that even if they went to the center of the spring, it's at least .100" longer than spec. How about that bend radius? .11" minimum was specified.. 2018-02-01_10-52-54 by Charles Stottlemyer, on Flickr They no doubt just wound it around a commonly available 3/16" pin. This is a 3/32 radius gauge. Let's talk about standard manufacturing tolerances. Angular is normally plus or minus 1/2 degree. 15 degrees?? Hello. Earth calling. Single place decimals, plus or minus 1/32". Two place decimals plus or minus 1/64" inch. Almost every manufacturing job has things that matter and things that don't. Now, what really "matters" on this job? Wire diameter. Check Inside diameter of the spring. .660 to .670 was specified.. it is .682. It's not rocket science to get it right. The angle. It could be plus or minus a couple of degrees. That's easy enough to do. 15-16 degrees out? No Length of the long arm to the bend. Check. That puts it in the right location to ride properly on the boss on the pawl. Length of the short arm. Not really as important, although it is off from what was specified, too. Minimum bend radius. I called for .11" .11-.015 tolerance.. .094. (3/16") Ok, close enough. Picking the fly shi stuff out of the pepper the long arm is crooked as a dawg's hind laig.. 2018-02-01_10-53-41 by Charles Stottlemyer, on Flickr My personal feeling is they just didn't take any pains to get it right on such a small job. Even an amateur spring maker like me can and *will* if they can't. I took the time to make a proper engineering drawing to send to Scud with my phone number if the manufacturer wants to talk to me. I'll get it out today or tomorrow.

Just want to re-acknowledge the fine work you and Chuck are doing here Scudd. This all takes time and communication and checking and re-affermation and its a process. Thanks again chaps. Ciao

Ok, I see the problem. Scud sent me some springs to check. See the red line on the cad drawing and the box at the top left saying length .7? 2018-01-30_10-23-08 by Charles Stottlemyer, on Flickr My bad. I intended to tag the end of the line when dimensioning it, not the center of the spring. That's why when I scaled the spring I'd made for the last time before sending the whole works back to Scud I marked out the .62 dimension and said .7 There is no excuse for that. Sorry. Just the same, it would work ok. It just sits there and doesn't move through the full travel and more. Here is the assembly at coil bind. 2018-01-30_10-25-42 by Charles Stottlemyer, on Flickr However, the angle is way out of spec. We asked for 15 degrees, and you can see it is 31. 2018-01-30_10-24-55 by Charles Stottlemyer, on Flickr That is unacceptable because it will drive the spring past it's "safe travel." My gut feeling is if the manufacturer could wind another 15 degrees on it, they would be ok. Just the same, I'd like to make another run and make everything *right* including the ID of the spring. I asked for .660/.670" and it is .682. Again, that shouldn't hurt anything.. but it's out of the spec that was calculated. It will apply a (very) little less torque. Maybe they will give us a break on another run because of one of the most important specs being out of tolerance? There's a reason for that swing set cartoon..

Swooshdave: "I assume you just provided them the drawing?" No, I sent the drawing and one of the springs that Chuck made. The manufacturer messed up the angle, but we may have messed up the spec on the arm length - or the wrong angle had something to do with the way the length was measured. I'm sending Chuck a few of the new springs and the two parts that the spring fits into. Chuck will figure it out and we will persevere till the springs are right.

Agree. Why not use the total cost for the two runs to calculate the final "retail" for the spring? Hell, we are getting free labor anyway

Chuck (and Scud), I don't believe this community is going to stand for either of you eating the cost of anything.

I fitted one of the newly manufactured springs to the spare pre-selector. It shifts well. The short arm of the spring is noticeably longer than the original, and contacts the stamped steel part further out, by the shoulder (rather than in the curve). Here's pics of how the spring fits.

OK Chuck - I've got 100 3x5x1 inch boxes on the way. I send you five springs to abuse, install, or regift. I'll also send five to Docc to install or use as party-favors at the next spine raid. I should be able to send these out by the weekend. I'll factor those no-charge springs into the unit cost for everybody else. Then I'll know how much the postage is (hoping I can just do this with stamps to make it easy). Then I can give everybody a final price along with ordering instructions. Czakky gets a bonus gift with purchase: a free cupped washer for his steering damper.

Ok, that one for fun, but here is the real deal:

Luhbo said I'd say the new Guzzi springs are capable of breaking. Here's the one I installed last summer. It has less than 5000 miles on it. 2018-01-15_12-58-03 by Charles Stottlemyer, on Flickr It was well on it's way to breaking. So, I installed the new home made unbreakable coil spring. caw caw.. But first.. 2018-01-15_12-58-25 by Charles Stottlemyer, on Flickr the diameter is just a smidgen (technical term) over .599". 16mm=.630, 15mm=.5905. Manufacturing tolerances.. the reason I didn't go with the 2mm dia. wire that perfectly fit Scuds selector shaft. Looking back at the reliability lab report.. I decided that would be fine, and put it together. But.. 2018-01-15_01-15-11 by Charles Stottlemyer, on Flickr The bigger radius on this spring rides on the sharp edge of the stamping. It is *most likely ok* to do that, but I'd be remiss if I didn't tell you to take your high speed die grinder.. what?? you don't have one? Ok, maybe your Dremel? No? Jeeeze. How about a file and dress a radius where it rides that matches the radius of the spring. It doesn't have to be perfect.. just do your best.. but striving for perfection is only good craftsmanship. A picture is worth a thousand words again.. 2018-01-15_01-26-33 by Charles Stottlemyer, on Flickr This is a rubber bob. Diamond impregnated rubber. Ooooh....shiny. 2018-01-15_01-33-48 by Charles Stottlemyer, on Flickr Cleaned it up in the solvent tank and compressed air, reinstalled on the Mighty Scura, and am confident I won't have to do this job again. (caw caw)

What an amazing effort and outcome. You guys are the best!

Oh, dear! I came across a pic of Chuck working the Test Bed . . .

True.. but apparently *some* springs don't break. This is probably one of them. I've also tested many variations with my gram scale in the neutral position. *Nothing* is as powerful as the Guzzi spring, but I doubt this much torsion is necessary. After all, the spring only has to hold the pawl against the pin at the start of the upshift. The eccentric will take it from there. I should take that back. The .071 spring with 25 degrees preload is about the same.. 1600 grams. Comma But 25+39 degrees is getting back to the "beyond safe travel" of that spring. Make sense? Even the weakest .071 spring still has positive pressure on the up shift, compared to a stock spring that is sacked. My gut feeling is that the .071 spring with 10 degrees preload is the one we want. It's what I'd put in my bike at this point. Third from the top in this picture. 2017-11-25_05-45-36 by Charles Stottlemyer, on Flickr Testing will continue, just the same. I'm afraid of the .080 spring stock with another active coil. Theoretically, it should be the best, but with tolerance stack up, it *might* not fit all bikes. .080" X3 equals .240". Scud's shifter gizmo measures .240". It works, somehow. If someone else's measures .230" it probably wouldn't. Do I see any eyes glazing over yet? Sorry. I've dealt with manufacturing tolerances all my life, and I'm ruling out the .080 wire with extra coil.

We had company this weekend, but got out there and hit it this afternoon. Found some bearing bronze bushings, I'd already made one for the lever pivot, forgot to take a picture. Made the cam. 2017-11-25_04-52-34 by Charles Stottlemyer, on Flickr 2017-11-25_04-52-52 by Charles Stottlemyer, on Flickr Trial fit up and everything works. Even a blind hog finds an acorn now and then. 2017-11-25_04-52-09 by Charles Stottlemyer, on Flickr Made a coupler out of some ever present Delrin.. no picture again.. and hooked it up. Here are the springs to test. The Guzzi spring is in the center, .080" springs at the bottom, .071 springs at the top. Various amounts of preload. 2017-11-25_05-45-36 by Charles Stottlemyer, on Flickr Merrily clacking away, shifting 8600 times per hour. 2017-11-25_04-51-30 by Charles Stottlemyer, on Flickr Liberally squirted a mix of STP and 15-15 syn on moving stuff. I hope this isn't just a test of my low speed motor or gearbox. It was getting pretty warm after a half hour, so put a box fan on high pointed at the whole works, and now just have to be patient. Any takers on how long the Guzzi spring will go?

I've really not been slackin on this job.. busy. Experimented with a different way of holding the wire. Used the other end of the bending tool lever. Made several springs using this guide in the tool post. It's faster, but maybe not as repeatable. 2017-11-21_06-24-16 by Charles Stottlemyer, on Flickr Supervised Austin making steel mill oiler nozzles.. 2017-11-21_06-24-35 by Charles Stottlemyer, on Flickr I think he's a keeper, btw.. Rewired the motor.. I'ma believer in using what you brung.. I'll be able to use it as a hanger door thingy after this project. 2017-11-21_06-27-20 by Charles Stottlemyer, on Flickr Did *some* testing on various springs with my new scientific fish scale.. 2017-11-21_06-37-03 by Charles Stottlemyer, on Flickr Started on the design for the cam on the spring abuser ™. 2017-11-21_06-28-33 by Charles Stottlemyer, on Flickr Let's see now, 46 rpm X 3 = 138 X 60=8280 shifts per hour. That's 198720 shifts per 24 hours. I'll also make a couple of .080 springs with 2 1/2 active coils. My guess is they'll bind up, though. Still have to make all this stuff and get it working reliably, of course.. but i think we're on the right track. Shouldn't be much longer.

Put the lever over the long pin and make the first bend. 2017-11-18_03-49-10 by Charles Stottlemyer, on Flickr That goes in the hole and is clamped by the screw with the wrench in it. 2017-11-18_03-53-19 by Charles Stottlemyer, on Flickr Oh, BTW, the lathe is unplugged from the power source during this operation. Leaving a chuck key, etc. in the chuck is verboten. Lining up the groove in the brass piece 2017-11-18_03-53-36 by Charles Stottlemyer, on Flickr and sliding the plastic on top. The groove is .005" shallow at the end, so clamp pressure is controlled by the front set screw. 2017-11-18_03-53-53 by Charles Stottlemyer, on Flickr Using the chuck wrench as a lever, the chuck is rotated. 2017-11-18_04-05-32 by Charles Stottlemyer, on Flickr The spring has to be over bent. You can see the two dashes on the back of the chuck that I decided was correct. It springs back about 90 degrees. 2017-11-18_04-06-00 by Charles Stottlemyer, on Flickr Here's the new spring on the bending fixture. As predicted by the Machinerys handbook, the ID is perfect. All that is left is to put the lever over the tall pin and bend the 45 degree angle. 2017-11-18_04-07-52 by Charles Stottlemyer, on Flickr Here's the first complete spring. The extra length will be cut off with the fiber wheel. We *know* the Guzzi spring at the bottom breaks, so the new one has a little more active coil. 2017-11-18_04-08-03 by Charles Stottlemyer, on Flickr Ok, let's try our other design with the .071 music wire.. 2017-11-18_04-08-25 by Charles Stottlemyer, on Flickr Using the spring calculator posted previously in this thread, this spring has considerably more "safe travel," and shouldn't break in service. To do it properly, I'll have to turn down the mandrel. The ID of the lighter wire is .030" or so bigger, but tried it anyway. Here it is installed. You can see the extra turn of wire here.. 2017-11-18_04-08-38 by Charles Stottlemyer, on Flickr It works so well if I were just making one for my bike, I'd bolt this preselector on and go with it. However, I'm fully aware that if you have spent some time and/or money on a project, your opinion may very well be colored. Time for testing. The new scientific "fish scale" will be here early next week, and I'll be doodling on some kind of cam arrangement that mimics the spring travel several times per revolution of my low speed motor. Stay tuned.

Ordered this morning. Starting to get some *real* money tied up in this project..

Back in 2003, my gearbox started pitching hissy-fits. I asked after it on the *more usual* place for (US) internet discussion. I was told two things: 1) [and I paraphrase deeply], "Give 'er a good and solid boot. Yer just a Jap-bike weenie and don't have the grit fer a real Guzzi gearbox." . . . and: 2) "Hey, ya know, there's a *new* forum that just popped up and you might get some answers there: V11LeMans.com." Quite quickly, a couple things came to light: 1) The dedicated members and contributors to V11LeMans.com (worldwide) are The Foremost Experts on the V11 and the early 6speeder. 2) The early gearboxes were recalled and we have fussed with the nefarious spring ever-since. (I told y'all my gearbox didn't shift right!) . . . How amazing is it that there are such dedicated enthusiasts to go this deeply into creating solutions and sharing them with the worldwide community?

I ordinarily would not trust calculations hand-written on "notebook paper." but since about a third of the lines are melted off by *some unknown solvent*, I feel really good about this effort. I presume there may be *special tool fluid* involved . . .

Well thats disappointing Chuck. I normally like to give the benifit of the doubt but not much care taken here. Its very common these days and I'm running accross it ALL the time to the point its depressing. A case in point. I have a brand new Focus RS with 1100klms on it and Ford has just issued a "customer satisfaction action" to mine and 27000 other Rs's to have the head gaskets replaced due to them fiting the wrong ones in assembly. I wont even go into that here. Checking the workshop manual this is quite a big job to do insitu. The whole front of the engine needs to come off, engine mount,cam chain cover, cam chain and tensioner, even the oil pump drive, then of course the turbo, the Hi pressure fuel pump, vacuum pump etc etc and then you get to pulling the head itself. Interestingly this engine doesnt have a single keyway on anything, cams front cam chain sprocket, engine pully, it relies on friction to hold it all in place. So I'm thinking with all of this I need to trust my brand new car to a Ford dealer tech to pull the engine half to pieces.Hmmmm..........I'm thinking, looks like I have some work to do. I'm not even going to claim warranty on this, I'd rather eat the cost and know its done right. This spring story just confirms my thoughts on getting things done right these days. Lets hope the spring guy steps up this time and they take the care to get it right. Ciao