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Talking about the frame end? Definitely an issue. When was the last time any of us inspected that? A formula for disaster when neglected. Kudos to your technician finding that. It should be inspected, cleaned, and greased with waterproof grease at every rear tire change . . . https://www.v11lemans.com/forums/topic/22039-torque-reaction-rods/ The torque reaction rod bushings , and its pivots, are a line item in the Wheels Off Maintenance Checklist:

I often go to an Ace hardware in Richmond. The owner is very proud of his hardware selection. He claims it’s the largest selection east of the Mississippi or something like that. It truly is an amazing selection of fasteners and things. I chose a M10 shoulder bolt with the appropriate amount of shoulder and cut the threaded section to length as needed. Metric bolts do come in a range of hardnesses similar to Grade 3,5,8, FYI. It seems Ace Hardware is making a strong comeback and I’m thrilled to see it happening.

Yep that bolt has very a hard job to do. The name torque rod bolt gives a hint as to the stress it endures. Mine sheared off as well, and on a very long solo trip crossing 2 mountain ranges. Fortunately my Grey Goose had mercy on me and with a little luck I limped home where I could replace that very same bolt. It’s easy and simple to inspect or replace at home but would be a challenge out on the road. Im glad you shared this critical issue with the forum.

I'm hesitant to jump in here but... This bolt's job is not to hold your rod in shear. This bolt's job is to clamp the frame tabs onto the bushing spacer hard enough that it doesn't move at all, and the bolt should never be put in a meaningful shear state. Nobody has mentioned the torque spec for this bolt... Secondarily, bolt hardness and tensile strength are not *necessarily* correlated with shear strength. Toughness is (which nobody quantifies on a bolt, it's a characteristic of the material of the bolt) If the bolt doesn't clamp sufficiently, and is tough enough that it never shears, you'll eventually end up with egg-shaped holes in the frame tabs as the weakest link wears. All that said, a harder bolt with higher tensile strength is less subject to relaxing over time and allowing the spacer to bang it every time you roll on/off the throttle. Meh.

I am off the phone with Curtis at Harpermoto in the US (Missouri). He states the the later (hardened) bolt is available in NA and will make an order this afternoon. He confirmed the size is M10 x 1.5 x 59. I have committed to six of them (to replace mine and share), and he will have four left on hand. $2.60US each + S/H. He suggested putting together a kit which includes the lock nut (good idea to fit a fresh one) and the washer and spacer (most expensive part at $4.75US). I suggested we leave it at just the bolt and let folks decide what else to replace. For example, his careful discussion led me to see that I have no "washer" and my "spacer" is on the bolt head side. [edit: this configuration is shown in the Parts Catalog for the "2nd Series" V11 Sport 1999-2001 with the 1.5 thread pitch bolt.] Time to delivery is a hopeful 2+ weeks . . . (certainly in time for the sSSR in Kentucky). A couple take-away from this important thread, so far: Do not neglect cleaning and greasing this critical pivot. And, perhaps the greater discovery: V11 before 2003 (likely including the 2003 "Carryover Sport") do not have a hardened fastener at this pivot and an upgrade to GU01357731 may be worth considering. https://www.harpermoto.com/screw-10mmx59mm-01357731.html

I'm not sure I understand that description. First let's establish that the Voltage Spike happens at the coil side of the relay (low current control circuit), it does not affect the switch side (high current load circuit). When the relay is turned off and the coil is de-energized, the magnetic field collapses, resulting in a voltage surge in the opposite direction. These low current surges can have significantly high voltages, often up to 100 volts, with the potential to destroy a transistor driving a relay. Think of it as a taser, high voltage/low current, it won't kill you but it'll disable you for a while... do it repeatedly or for too long and it'll kill you, same as lightning. A diode(often called a flyback diode) installed in parallel with the coil (pin 85/86) in reverse polarity creates a low resistance loop for that momentary voltage spike to be absorbed/dissipated and protect the controlling electronic circuit while allowing the current to flow directly through the coil when the relay is switched on. So you might think, great, let's use diode protected relays whenever we have a transistor on the control side... well, like everything electronic, it ain't that simple. Although very effective, one drawback to using a flyback diode as a voltage surge suppressor in a relay is that it decays the magnetic field of the coil slower than with no diode, taking longer for the relay to open the contacts and allowing arcing and micro-welds to occur between the contacts which could cause the relay to stick overtime when the contacts become welded together. I believe the built-in diodes found in micro relays are just simple flyback diodes. There are other types of diodes or diode combinations that can be used to alleviate this issue but it's getting a bit more technical that I'm willing to delve into here. Resistors installed across the coil provide similar protection against voltage spikes and are more durable if not as effective. A downside to using a resistor is that it will allow current to flow through it whenever the relay is on and dissipate energy and convert it into heat. The advantage it holds over a diode is that it won't slow down the opening of the contacts and it is not sensitive to polarity. It would be interesting to know what type of relays were spec'd by the Guzzi engineers and whether the ECU has built-in voltage surge protection. The only thing I see on the schematic is a "safety diode" #48 between the ECU relay pin #85 and the ECU, presumably to give it some protection. None of the relays show any suppressor across their coil. Of course, with our bikes being 20+ years old, I doubt there are many original relays left under the seat.

I dropped off the Greenie for a new rear tire, brakes, et al., was told the torque rod bolt in the rear suspension was sheared and was holding on by a nub. I don't know if this is common, perhaps it's worth checking. I know I never looked at it. FYI

Yes of course the specs are easy to know, but I meant that nobody has said they either checked it (but docc's wheel off checklist) or verified that it was tight to spec. ...aaaand you may ask if I applied a torque wrench to my own. I have not. But I have given it the ol' grunt test from time to time. This particular mechanism of failure is pretty universal in any device that has connecting rods or stay arms with a captive bushing.

@audiomick Here is a good read if you are interested to go beyond basics. https://www.12voltplanet.co.uk/relay-guide.html

I can get close with Mcmaster-Carr, but the minimum thread length looks like "26mm" and our application appears to be less than 20 of threads. So, the linked 60mm would not have enough clear shaft area. Perhaps buying the bolt longer and trimming it to length leaving the correct amount of the bolt shaft unthreaded . . .

Parts Catalog for GU37357706 ("1st Series") states M10 x 59 (mm long), yet sourcing one with that much shaft area may not be as simple as a stop by the hardware store . . .

It's an old topic, but here's some new information. Wendelmotorräder in Berlin seems to be able to supply an isolation block: https://wendelmotorraeder.de/silentbuchse-kardstrebe-v11_gu01359290-p-1037953.html HMB-Guzzi is now HMB-Moto due to the current "push" by Piaggio to secure all and every "Guzzi" domain in the world. The links to HMB-Guzzi don't work anymore. The isolation block that was linked further up is probably this: https://hmb-moto.de/Silentblock-Reaktionsstange-V11-alle-Modelle I know of one instance directly where the Rossopuro torque arm broke at the frame end. In connection with that, I was informed that they are generally inclined to break. The bloke who told me that is very well informed. Anyone who has one of those installed should keep an eye on it, I think.

No good. If it were only the bend at the gear box, I may have been able to come up with something. Both ends on the new cable were correct, but the side (speedo side) with the flat slit, was a bit too narrow. Even this I could have made work, but after a number of other items too, not worth overcoming. At least I ruled something out for us.

"... V11 before 2003 (likely including the 2003 "Carryover Sport") do not have a hardened fastener at this pivot..." No. I am basing that on it having been stated the part number changed in 2003 and the fact that my early bolt has no headstamp and the replacement does (10.9). Along with the fact the original bolt configuration is NLA from Moto Guzzi (superseded?). AFAIK, there is no torque specification for this fastener in the Guzzi chassis. It is fastened with a lock nut ("NyLoc" type). Whether or not the bushing is intended to be "clamped" has been the subject of debate. I question whether this fastener could suffer from being unnecessarily overtorqued, leading to failure (especially the earlier, unrated, fastener). Also, whether the two fastener failures we have in question are actually best described as "shear" failures. Technically speaking, probably not. This is why I am asking both @LowRyter and @kalev11 to clarify the more exact description of their failures. Both of these examples are 2001 models. Finally, @LowRyter, to clarify: I have no failure, only replacing pre-emptively with what appears (to me) to be a superseded part. Learning from other's experience. Thanks for posting this!

Yes, it is for beginners. Like me. Me too.

I would be interested to know if the original relays were all the same in all positions and if there is any marking on them indicating the presence of a surge suppressor.

Good primer on relays, but no mention of suppressor, diode or resistor, or flyback voltage spikes.

Did Curtis confirm that then?

That would be my guess. Stein Dinse have a picture from a different angle to the one from Wendel. Seems to be a 10.9 https://www.stein-dinse.biz/product_info.php?products_id=4990#prettyPhoto

I go to Ace most of the time. Seems to be better than Fastenall. We have industrial fastener supply on the southside of the City in a little town with all the strip clubs. Minimum purchase is like $20 there. Anyway, I played all those hardness grades with a non load bearing bolt assembling my Duc's pannier bracket that sheared. The new (stronger) one sheared just as the other one. According to the forum, the better fix was to tap it out and go to a larger size. Anyway, I'll see if the works. I'm planning to ride the Duc to MotoGP Austin. Full confession, I did have my bags overloaded according to Ducati. It's actually a Givi designed system with a Ducati badge.

Would you care to measure and report the physical dimensions of the original relay, just for interest's sake? If you can manage inches and millimetres, that would be brilliant...

Interesting... I just had a look at Wendel Motorraeder in Berlin. https://wendelmotorraeder.de/moto-guzzi-ersatzteile-und-zubehoer-fuer-v11-modelle-c-30_3006_300602.html Going by the parts lists there, it looks like the bolt was changed for the models from 2003 onwards. Looking at the Guzzi part numbers listed there ( GU xxxx ) These two actually show two different versions for the bolt https://wendelmotorraeder.de/kardanwelle-v11-sportmandello-99-01-ex-30_3006_300602_30060201_3006020110_300602011009.html https://wendelmotorraeder.de/kardanwelle-v11-02-le-mansskura-ex-30_3006_300602_30060203_3006020310_300602031010.html this one only the "2nd version" https://wendelmotorraeder.de/kardanwelle-v11-nakedle-manns-01-02-ex-30_3006_300602_30060202_3006020210_300602021010.html and these two the part number shown in the links in docc's post https://wendelmotorraeder.de/kardanwelle-v11-03-04-corsa-ex-30_3006_300602_30060204_3006020410_300602041010.html https://wendelmotorraeder.de/kardanwelle-v11-03-05-cafballabio-ex-30_3006_300602_30060205_3006020510_300602051010.html In the second link, V11 Le Mans / Scura '02, there is a note next to the "first version", the bolt is number 12 in the diagramm (the note "1st version" and "2nd version" is only in the diagramm behind the first link....) i.e. " up until frame number KT 111393 [M1] BUT!! the original bolt for the "first" and "second" versions are listed as being unavailable (number crossed out), and an alternative number is listed. This number also appears in the diagramms for the models after 2003, i.e. the last two links, although the Guzzi part number there is not crossed out. That number links to here: 1035121 Without knowing for sure, I would take that to mean that the bolt for the later models will also work in the earlier ones.

According to this French site posted by @p6x, the part looks available, but the part number is different than from my 1999-2001 catalog (GU37357706): https://www.pieces-motoguzzi.com/guzzi-laverda-scarabeo/affectation_pieces_detachees/GU01357731 While MGCycle doesn't bring this number up (nor the number I posted), Harpermoto does show the -7731 part at $1.20US. This does NOT mean they have it! A call to Curtis is the only way to know: https://www.harpermoto.com/screw-10mmx59mm-01357731.html @LowRyter and @kalev11, where did your bolts break: at the head or at the base of the threads?

I spoke with the dealership, and the listing is an error. The Jackal is not "new" (such as NOS in a crate), the mileage is said to be approximately 15k miles.

That's a little bit weird.

The hillbilly harpist.. and one of the worlds first drum machines.

That is good thinking and very possible. I have seen others dismount the relays for clearance. Also, I have sen the bottom of the seat pan "relieved" with a rotary tool (i.e.: Dremel®), and even seen the entire pan material cut away above the relays exposing only the foam material. It is evident when inspecting under the seat when there is seat pan contact with the relays. There are very distinct signs of abrasion and "dusting", dulling, or chafing where there has been contact. Good method to observe the corners and edges of your relays for this and take action to create clearance. (Added to the Underseat Maintenance Checklist )

I've been looking into the subjects of relay, and received a recommendation for a Hella relay for the V11 models. One of the plus points was the low profile of the relay in question. I haven't actually looked at it yet myself, but apparently there is not much room between the seat and the stuff under the seat. Could it be possible that the relays were taped in instead of being mounted to gain a bit of clearance? I don't consider that to be an elegant solution, but I could imagine someone doing that who was in a hurry and not inclined to figure out a "proper" solution.

Looks good on the Dodge

See? Corvettes are meant for sliding sideways. Volvo and V11? Not so much . . .

As long as they are micro relays... the only requisite is that relay #1 (#23 on the schematic) has to be SPDT where all the others are SPST. The physical difference is SPDT has 5 pins and SPST has 4 pins. A SPDT (5 pins) can be fitted in all positions, but a SPST will not function in position #1.

If the Yardbirds doesn't date us, J.C. Whitney certainly does!

Topic closed. If you want info on the bike, please send the OP a pm

Moderator note: The purpose of replies enabled in Classifieds is to assist the seller and prospective buyers, not to debate the seller's listing or pricing. Replies to this thread have been amended once, already, for not complying with this intent. Discussions of our opinions as to value of various V11 models, in various configurations, is a topic for "24/7 V11." Please reserve Classified replies for those directly and seriously interested in the item offered.

The title and formatting in this new thread is subject to refinement. Help me populate these links, please . . .

Apropos vaginas, I don't own one, either, but I have found them quite useful over the years. Lawyers less so, and certainly are less fun -- well, except for one or two that possessed the subject private part, but that was before my Perfect Pillion & Polish Princess , so the less said about that these days, the better. As for lawyers, I understand how folks can think as you do -- and, occasionally, I even share that view. Still, when I hear such statements, I am reminded of the several times over my 50+ years of practice when I picked up such lawyer-bashing folks at the local jail and how happy they were to see me. Bill Member, Kentucky Bar, since 1971

My early bolt has a smooth head, no markings, indicating mild steel/unhardened. Do the later bolt heads (2003-onward) reveal a hardening level (i.e.: 10.9 or 12.9)? Knowing of these failures, it seems prudent to go with a hardened fastener in this location (as well as seeing to the maintenance). I wonder if Moto Guzzi superseded the part thusly . . .

Then I'm not alone here. My bike has 50k miles if that's any guide. Hopefully I've got a stronger bolt. In other news the tech dropped the bike,,,,broke the rt side mirror and brake lever. Scratched the valve cover crash guard. The new brake lever is a different color, another issue............Turning into a project .....not done the dyno tune yet.