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Yes, identical loads on each end of the reaction rod, as a single bolt forms a "pin joint". However I think that the forward end of the rod is more exposed to road spray, which explains the number of reports of the forward bolt breaking. Assembly with an anti-corrosion jointing compound like Duralac or Mastinox will reduce rust without encouraging bolt rotation as grease would. Since stress corrosion cracking is more likely on high tensile bolts, I believe that staying with the original spec bolt is a better idea, if you want it to last another 20 years.

I'm hesitant to jump in here but... This bolt's job is not to hold your rod in shear. This bolt's job is to clamp the frame tabs onto the bushing spacer hard enough that it doesn't move at all, and the bolt should never be put in a meaningful shear state. Nobody has mentioned the torque spec for this bolt... Secondarily, bolt hardness and tensile strength are not *necessarily* correlated with shear strength. Toughness is (which nobody quantifies on a bolt, it's a characteristic of the material of the bolt) If the bolt doesn't clamp sufficiently, and is tough enough that it never shears, you'll eventually end up with egg-shaped holes in the frame tabs as the weakest link wears. All that said, a harder bolt with higher tensile strength is less subject to relaxing over time and allowing the spacer to bang it every time you roll on/off the throttle. Meh.

Yours reminds me -- perhaps because I am dealing with someone whose location is listed as "UK (Oz)" and who quoted an American -- of this from a 16th century Englishman: The Lawyer makes no plea but for privat profitte, and buildes goodly houses, and purchaseth whole countries about him . . . . The souldiour serves his countrye for a small stypende, and would be contended with alowance but to buie meate, drinke, and cloath. **** [Lawyers] affect eloquence to maintain bad causes; they are studiously affable to procure new clients; they are devilishly subtle to cloak inconveniences. Seeming to be ministers of light, they hunt after continual darkness, concluding the truth within a golden cloude, making blacke white, and white blacke, darkenyng all things with their distinctions that should give light, so that in all things they seem civil, yet in all things they are most uncivil. Barnaby Riche, 1577 Best wishes, Bill P.S. On the merits, maybe Piaggio is right to grab better control of its name, V100's seem to be selling very well. I am even considering -- while looking carefully to see if Kathi, who is sitting next to me can see this -- getting one! I really dont need one, and a Kubota calls a bit louder, but, of course, none of that is important when dealing with moto-lust.

A very interesting concept. No doubt, each of us should be acutely aware of keeping the needle bearing cage serviced . While destruction of the seal surface of the pinion nose has already been noted as an adverse consequence of neglecting the outboard needle bearing cage of the reardrive, the possibility of it contributing to the forward bolt pivot failure is worth investigating. @LowRyter and @kalev11, take note to have this failure point inspected and serviced . . .

I wonder if that bolt failure is related to the condition of the needle bearing in the RH side of the bevel box? 🤔 Obviously stiffness in this bearing will increase fatigue loads on the reaction rod & bolt during suspension movement.

I really miss @Lucky Phil right now... he would have had a field day

I would rather say "can" and "up to" than must, but yes, the 10.9 can deal with a good bit more torque. I just had a look at the parts lists at Wendel and Stein-Dinse. The nut is a bit confusing. At both of those sites I found the reference you mentioned to "1st series" with 1.25 and "2nd series" with 1.5, but also later models with allegedly 1.25. I also looked at a site showing listings for ISO standard pitch. An M10 *should* have 1.5. I don't know if Guzzi swapped back and forth between a standard and a fine pitch, or if the parts lists are misleading. I would say care needs to be taken in getting the right nut. By the way, it seems that the bolt at the final drive end of the torque rod has a 1.25 pitch.

Docc yes my front torque bolt was sheared off when I discovered it. Only the nut and a short stub of the sheared bolt remained. Lucky for me the pork chop had the nut and bolt stub captured so they could not fall out and that little bit of luck is what got me and the bike home where I could repair the bike.

I've personally seen how devastating the forces can be in these torque arm set ups. One of the VRRA racers I got to know, A.J.Simiana sp? was just starting a fresh build/setup on an older Tonti frame Lemans3? race bike. AJ is an experienced racer and a decent builder within his limited budget. He designed and built a torque arm set up similar in appearance,to the Magni Parallel swing arm setup. I'm not sure what aspect of the build caused the problem,but his very first race,he tore the welded front support completely off the swingarm/frame area. It was a complete catastrophic failure,luckily didn't cause a crash. AJ redid some math calculations,angles etc,redesigned it,rewelded the support and solved the problem,but for sure there's some serious forces involved. Iirc I removed and greased or put anti seize on the back bolt,but I'm almost positive I didn't touch the front one. Tks for the warning and discussion,I'll be taking a close look at that.

When I reread that, I knew that would get me in trouble.

Not so much for the value of the original relays but only to get some insight into the original design of the electrical system. We all know by now the electrical engineeers in Mandello Del Lario had their share of miscalculations, but I'm hopeful they would have made sure sensitive equipment like the ECU was protected from potentially destructive voltage surges coming from said relays.

This means that when I change my early V11 8.8 pivot bolt to the later 10.9 replacement, the tightening torque must be increased to this new value of 70Nm? Harper's also told me the new bolt (GU01357731) is a 1.5 thread pitch. My early(1999-2001) Parts Catalog specifies the nuts as M10-1.25 (with both washe and spacer) for the "1st Series" and M10x1.5 for the "2nd Series" (no washer, only spacer on the bolt head side). Both of those bolts are apparently superseded by GU01357731. So, also, pitch change(s). [edit: The 2004 Le Mans parts diagram @p6x linked on page one once again shows a 1.25 thread pitch with both a washer and a spacer.]

"Egg-shaped holes in the frame tabs " are a compelling reason to see that the bushing is clamped by the frame tabs through the force of the bolt. Another trip through the Workshop Manual and I do not see the torque reaction rod depicted except where it is being disconnected from the reardrive. I do not see it mentioned anywhere else, especially in relation to the frame connection. Am I missing it somewhere? The general torque value page states that M10x1.5 is tightened 45-50 Nm (with no reference as to hardness ratings).

Is there a cover charge too?

Yes of course the specs are easy to know, but I meant that nobody has said they either checked it (but docc's wheel off checklist) or verified that it was tight to spec. ...aaaand you may ask if I applied a torque wrench to my own. I have not. But I have given it the ol' grunt test from time to time. This particular mechanism of failure is pretty universal in any device that has connecting rods or stay arms with a captive bushing.

I can get close with Mcmaster-Carr, but the minimum thread length looks like "26mm" and our application appears to be less than 20 of threads. So, the linked 60mm would not have enough clear shaft area. Perhaps buying the bolt longer and trimming it to length leaving the correct amount of the bolt shaft unthreaded . . .

Talking about the frame end? Definitely an issue. When was the last time any of us inspected that? A formula for disaster when neglected. Kudos to your technician finding that. It should be inspected, cleaned, and greased with waterproof grease at every rear tire change . . . https://www.v11lemans.com/forums/topic/22039-torque-reaction-rods/ The torque reaction rod bushings , and its pivots, are a line item in the Wheels Off Maintenance Checklist:

You can and just for safety's sake put 5 pin relays in all positions . The one 5 pin relay in your bike now acts as a load shedding relay. This removes all unnecessary power so all the current can go to start the bike.

I dropped off the Greenie for a new rear tire, brakes, et al., was told the torque rod bolt in the rear suspension was sheared and was holding on by a nub. I don't know if this is common, perhaps it's worth checking. I know I never looked at it. FYI

One of our members is looking for a replacement ECU (anyone?). I went looking and see this NOS white-face Veglia in Oklahoma, USA. I don't know who this seller this is, but some of you come looking for this piece periodically . . . https://www.ebay.com/itm/325576021283?hash=item4bcdd7d523:g:0HcAAOSwTJVjxGrN&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAA0LmNC8rcxLWaYrI1bsuSwmu3y5EUTu6BP08knT%2BXsoHgzWYlCVUdfHil15ZqtAerzqze%2BDO3iESOj%2FIlc2peEKYWR7WBBgKnSlfOwWYDHqkvdzWNTSqH0xt3sBVgdw8I3kxu3tGGGJMdBLAVackZOkQYJy1b0cPtd1YLB5guctH3B33edbfcEEvTcOKiNhOXCxZv5M0KksD1uaKf3VBdSqu3WmotMwrLO6Q0S4D7UBhrk6WIYGz14DB3PpUJ7NIbrwYYiWOhGevvVAU9kLm%2BH08%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR6Ld8tXdYQ https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/0HcAAOSwTJVjxGrN/s-l1600.jpg [edit: Looks like the trip reset knob is not shown.]

My experience with AF1 is that their inventory showed on the product page is pretty accurate(unlike Harper's) and when an item is not in stock, the delivery time showed will pretty much tell you whether the item in the US (3 to 4 weeks) or in Italy (2 to 3 months). If an item is NLA it is simply not listed. Of course it doesn't hurt to ask if you want to make sure of the availability of a part. Note that AF1 doesn't take phone calls anymore, which I can't blame them for as it can waste a lot of resources answering questions all day, but they are very responsive through email and you will most likely get an answer within 24h directly from Ed Cook, the boss there.

G'day folk's Well she fired right up and we danced our way into work on Thursday morning! And home through the fun twisty bits on the way home too. No issues whatsoever and back to her normal self-Yay! I did try the shorter warm up both am and pm and yeah no dramas either.I don't think she'd be happy to fire up and ride straight away though but I'm gunna stick with this 1 to 2 minute warm up for a bit. Cheers Ps My issue with cold weather riding is my hands! My gloves are good down to 5 deg's just, but under that and it gets painful real quick... My commute when I do it is 75 kays ( one way ) and 80% highway so plenty of time for it to be an issue.I can put thermals on and my body is good but I did get caught at -3 once and hands were agony and body was feeling it too.I also think I had the start of hyperthermia when I got in and it took till nearly 11am to come good! Too old for that crap now and had enough of it as a kid on dirt bikes back in NZ in winter. Plus don't wanna know about Black Ice any more, something else best left to youth and stupidity!

Actually we can be certain that Guzzi calculated the shear strength required correctly. If the bolt failed in shear, then we would see 2 shear planes, as the bolt is in a double shear clevis. Since the bolt usually fails under the head, or at the first thread on the shank, failure is likely caused by stress corrosion cracking or fatigue. These conditions can lead to a break at very low loads compared to simple shear. We have to stop the rust, as a rust pit is the initiation point for a crack. I believe that a new standard bolt assembled with anti-corrosion jointing compound will last a other 20 years.

I am super late in the topic, as I am back from NM; Guzzi should have computed the shear force that load bearing component would be submitted to. Usually, you send the blue prints to a specialized company and they tell you what force that component will have to sustain. That bolt should have been manufactured to precise specifications, using a given metallurgy and maybe thermal treatment. Guzzi would have ordered a large batch to support manufacturing. The important factor is that, the shearing strength seems inadequate for a normal usage. For such an important component, it would be probably better to have one purpose made; if we knew what the maximum shear force it has to see. I found a paper from Portland Bolt, that could be helpful: How do I determine the yield and tensile strength of a specific diameter of bolt?

Wider OEM Mirrors For 2002+ Lemans These Buell mirrors are a bolt-on replacement for the MG OEM mirrors for the V11 Lemans that are less expensive, a little wider, and suffer less from vibration. Buell OEM #'s: N0151.2A8 Mirror, Left $19.60 US N0162.2A8 Mirror, Right $19.60 US (Pricing as of 1/05) guzzipower.com - Wider OEM Mirrors '02+ Le Mans

Since Edge's original photos disappeared, here is another write-up and the "after" images reattached. I'll add this to the encyclopedia of compatible parts thread too. guzzipower.com - Wider OEM Mirrors '02+ Le Mans

As much as we discuss this matter , I would think Piaggio would want the name Moto Guzzi promulgated and be happy to have forums , websites and owners groups displaying the name , symbols , etc. Do you know how good it feels to be gassing up and someone comes up and knows what you are riding and can pronounce it correctly ? I would not doubt that the people running this business have never straddled a bike , couldn't even start one , or know where to add the fuel. The only thing they know is from authority not experience.

@Flooky, looks like this Picker Components High Current relay is the best available, according to our "Best Relay" thread. I wonder if you have a UK source for them? https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/picker-components/PC782-1C-12S-R-X/12352866 Data Sheet

To give the engineers credit, one never knows, and will probably never find out, what was planned and how different that was from what the "budget engineer" thought would probably suffice. Not always the same thing...

I'm not sure I understand the value of investigating the original relay as it was proved failure prone from mid-2000 year. Yet, my 2000 Sport was delivered with the same relay in all four 4-pin (SPST) positions, and a different 5-pin (SPDT) in position #1. As mentioned, my dealer sent me a larger Siemens for the Start/#1 position very shortly. Original: Siemens V23073, the 4-pin are -B1005-A302 and the 5-pin is -B1008-A303 I see no markings indicating surge protection (either "R" or "D"). Certainly the #5 position relay was not different from the other SPST positions. Only the SPDT in position #1 differs. I cannot find data sheets for these old relays.

"... V11 before 2003 (likely including the 2003 "Carryover Sport") do not have a hardened fastener at this pivot..." No. I am basing that on it having been stated the part number changed in 2003 and the fact that my early bolt has no headstamp and the replacement does (10.9). Along with the fact the original bolt configuration is NLA from Moto Guzzi (superseded?). AFAIK, there is no torque specification for this fastener in the Guzzi chassis. It is fastened with a lock nut ("NyLoc" type). Whether or not the bushing is intended to be "clamped" has been the subject of debate. I question whether this fastener could suffer from being unnecessarily overtorqued, leading to failure (especially the earlier, unrated, fastener). Also, whether the two fastener failures we have in question are actually best described as "shear" failures. Technically speaking, probably not. This is why I am asking both @LowRyter and @kalev11 to clarify the more exact description of their failures. Both of these examples are 2001 models. Finally, @LowRyter, to clarify: I have no failure, only replacing pre-emptively with what appears (to me) to be a superseded part. Learning from other's experience. Thanks for posting this!

That can be derived from the number, can't it? The one I linked at Stein Dinse is apparently a 10.9 According to this table (which includes values that I know from other applications, so I guess it is accurate...) an M10 10.9 can be tightened up to 70 Nm. https://www.anzugsmoment.de/anzugsmoment/ the tensile strength can be derived from the formula shown here in the diagramm under the title "Festigkeitsklassen von Schrauben". https://www.rosentaler-schrauben.de/magazin/schrauben-festigkeitsklassen/ The first number 10 * 100 N/mm² = 1000 N/mm² stretch before it breaks The first number times the second number 10 * 9 * 10 N/mm² = 900 N/mm² stretch before it is permanently deformed. Or did you mean something else?

Works fine on 2 bikes. Cheers Tom. Sent fra min SM-S906B via Tapatalk

I am off the phone with Curtis at Harpermoto in the US (Missouri). He states the the later (hardened) bolt is available in NA and will make an order this afternoon. He confirmed the size is M10 x 1.5 x 59. I have committed to six of them (to replace mine and share), and he will have four left on hand. $2.60US each + S/H. He suggested putting together a kit which includes the lock nut (good idea to fit a fresh one) and the washer and spacer (most expensive part at $4.75US). I suggested we leave it at just the bolt and let folks decide what else to replace. For example, his careful discussion led me to see that I have no "washer" and my "spacer" is on the bolt head side. [edit: this configuration is shown in the Parts Catalog for the "2nd Series" V11 Sport 1999-2001 with the 1.5 thread pitch bolt.] Time to delivery is a hopeful 2+ weeks . . . (certainly in time for the sSSR in Kentucky). A couple take-away from this important thread, so far: Do not neglect cleaning and greasing this critical pivot. And, perhaps the greater discovery: V11 before 2003 (likely including the 2003 "Carryover Sport") do not have a hardened fastener at this pivot and an upgrade to GU01357731 may be worth considering. https://www.harpermoto.com/screw-10mmx59mm-01357731.html

That would be my guess. Stein Dinse have a picture from a different angle to the one from Wendel. Seems to be a 10.9 https://www.stein-dinse.biz/product_info.php?products_id=4990#prettyPhoto

Agree all hapless kidnapped souls were happy to have their bodies released Bill - doubtless equally happy when they received the bondage bill! 😊 I admit my awakened aversion is systemic… “I freed a thousand slaves. I could have freed a thousand more if only they knew they were slaves.” ~ Harriet Tubman

I often go to an Ace hardware in Richmond. The owner is very proud of his hardware selection. He claims it’s the largest selection east of the Mississippi or something like that. It truly is an amazing selection of fasteners and things. I chose a M10 shoulder bolt with the appropriate amount of shoulder and cut the threaded section to length as needed. Metric bolts do come in a range of hardnesses similar to Grade 3,5,8, FYI. It seems Ace Hardware is making a strong comeback and I’m thrilled to see it happening.

What's the size and spec of that bolt in the event someone needs to replace it? Perhaps falling into the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" category, but I wonder if that bolt should possibly be replaced after X miles or years as maintenance?

The title and formatting in this new thread is subject to refinement. Help me populate these links, please . . .

I agree 100%

I don't think they are that interested in the "old gaurd". There's no money to be made on someone who is riding a bike that is 20 years old or more. Piaggio wants to profit from the tradition, that is clear, but on their terms I think. Tight control of the brand name, fashionable accessories only from them directly, and so on. They want to sell the new models, not to help keep patching up the old ones.

Let's recall that Piaggio has owned MotoGuzzi for the better part of the past two decades (2005). Very nearly as long as deTomaso (1973 to ~1994). Is this a sign of how serious they are about the brand? It seems so. Are they hoping to build on the established "old guard?" Evidently not.

cold air without snow - always great fun with the V11

Love your 02 burgundy Sport Can’t wait to get mine out in a few weeks time when spring is here. Mines been hibernating in the garage since November

Contact Barnett Clutches & Cables in Ventura , Ca. See if they can help . I got a throttle cable made from them and got the best price / quality from these people .

OEM Parts: antivibration dampers that join the two-piece front fender: Upper (3, each) GU93236104 Side (2, each) GU93236105 Replacement parts: "well nuts/ insulating rivet nuts" . . . . Upper: McMaster-Carr (ten count) 93495A615 Side: McMaster-Carr (ten count) 93495A503 Related discussion: (with dimensions of factory parts):

A saying, you usally get what .. Had to wait a couple of weeks extra for the VCm 3 from Vintage car, they were out. They were offering me more expensive H4 bulbs if I wanted to, no extra charge. But knowing the VCm 3 fits right in, waited. So called life time warranty. Ok, finished with H4 bulbs. Cheers Tom.

Learning to know your bike is rewarding So easy to remove the fairing, and there she is. Vintage car H4 led version fits perfect, with a H4 halogen light pattern. 4 more on order. Cheers Tom.