Leaderboard

Well-stated Scud. This brings up the heart of the conversation "blending artistry and engineering". The epitome of this pursuit was during the Renaissance, with Leonardo da Vinci likely being the most notable example. The best artists were also engineers and/or architects and vice-versa. And it was not only from their training, but their patrons expected them to have a keen interest and curiosity in both. This is no longer the case. In most cultures today, professions are pigeon-holed to focus on one thing and do it well. Most current engineering programs are devoid of any significant classes in the arts. As an architect for past 40 years, I deal with capable engineers on a daily basis. But try to have a conversation with them about any design intents or theories, and you get "just tell me what depth you need the beam and I'll do the calcs and let you know the options". Most of them couldn't tell you the first thing about the accomplishments of Leonardo, Eiffel, or Wright. The increasingly homely automotive and motorcycle designs of the past two decades are evidence of lack empathy and collaboration between engineering and design departments (I would suggest especially evident in recent design trends from Japan, who had previously produced some outstanding designs). The single exception I've experienced consistently (having completed a few projects there) is the design and engineering culture of Italy. There, engineers are still expected to be well-informed of all arts and history, and are passionate about it. Engineer/Designers such as Tamburini, Zagato, Michelotti, Taglioni, and Magni all had in-depth and integrated knowledge of every aspect of the cars or bikes they were designing and were usually involved in every step. This is true "blending of artistry and engineering", and the reason why Italy has produced, and will continue to produce, the most revered and emulated designs of our age. Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk

And that from a man who builds aeroplanes from scratch. ignore the wisdom at your peril.

3 screws hold it on, and three are essentially decorative. I assume the 6-hole pattern is an industry standard and Moto Guzzi only needed 4 screws to attach to the tank. I say 4, not 3, because there is a fastener under the lid. ...and as for blackening bits on a Scura... that is important work.

From the description that was linked to in the original post: PAUL FÜHRMANN’S MISSION in life is to build custom motorcycles that “seamlessly blend artistry and engineering.” That’s not only a noble goal, but it’s also a great way to describe the machines that he chooses to work on. Paul specializes in classic Moto Guzzis—especially the mythical Tonti frame Moto Guzzis of the 1970s. This Moto Guzzi café racer is one of his best builds yet. It cuts an elegant silhouette, while still giving off a raw, mechanical vibe. And it’s a bit of a sleeper, combining the engine of a Moto Guzzi V11 with the Tonti frame of a 1970s Le Mans Mk II. Emphasis mine. For me, this bike is an artistic expression. It also seems to be well-built (engineered and fabricated). I like it. But put it next to an original LeMans Mk II and ask me to choose one to take one home to ride. I'll take the original LeMans. Then ask me to choose one to park one in my living room as art. I'll still take the original LeMans. (For art, I'd prefer the first 850 LeMans, but the Mk II is still a thing of beauty.) Other people might make different choices, obviously Paul Fuhrmann did. Art and utility are both subjective - based (respectively) on personal taste and intended use.

"The truth is motorcycles are not art" is not the truth. One of the greatest museums on the face of the earth (The Guggenheim in New York) in 1998 dedicated its entire premises to an exhibition titled The Art of the Motorcycle. https://www.guggenheim.org/exhibition/the-art-of-the-motorcycle That doesn't mean that all motorcycles are art for sure. But in the hands of someone like Massimo Tamburini, who was trained as an engineer and also had a rare gift for design - the Ducati 996 and MV Agusta F4 most certainly are art. I would argue that they are a higher form of art than a typical sculpture found on a museum floor in that they have to satisfy a far greater list requirements and need to incorporate engineering, aerodynamics, and economics, in addition to theories of art and design. Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk

Stuff like this is why I love this forum.

A couple of applicable quotes from Frank Lloyd Wright: "Art is a discovery and development of elementary principles of nature into beautiful forms, suitable for human use." "Form follows function, -that has been misunderstood. Form and function should be one, joined in a spiritual function." On another note, The Wright brothers built the first airplanes in their garage from scratch, with no education and little support. They built and repaired bicycles prior and were self taught. Possibly a stretch with today's topic but not that far, and the human principles are the same. If innovators don't understand the difference between engineering, designing and fabricating, I don't see a problem with it. Mfg's don't set the standard for what we want. They play catch up to the standard we define when we buy their bike and "finish it."

Ok, I may have been a bit *off the mark* when singling out Pete for his delivery. It seemed a little harsh when I first read it, late at night and perhaps lacking clarity. There is a lot of wisdom in that post. The thing is, when I’m looking at a nice bike - read unique, different & appealing to my sense of taste - an object of desire - it is for entertainment purposes only and the dreamer in me doesn’t want to be reminded of all the mechanical shortcomings, engineering oversight or design impracticality that comes with it. A left brain / right brain kind of thing. I’d like to think that if I were to build it myself - or buy it if I could - I’d have a more pragmatic approach in considering all aspects, but I don’t have the skills nor the tools-time-space-money-knowledge or fortitude to undertake a *build* like that, so yeah, I respect anyone that tries, even if the result is far from perfect...

This..

If I recall correctly, the plastic receptacle into which the threaded inserts are embedded has that sort of "ridged" structure, hence the alternating length of the screws...I think looking at the bottom of the plastic would reveal more clearly... I only noticed that same issue when I took the filler cap and screws to "blacken it" to make it look more "Scura like"...I do love the darkness and every silver screw exposed just needed to be blackened!

Not sure if Pete is referring to Chuck or Phil as the airplane builder, but wanted to share this photo of the Cozy Mk III (Burt Rutan design) that my brother built from scratch from a set of blueprints. "Only" 7 years to complete... Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk

There is this notion floating around of the motorcycle as a single entity. Comparing production bikes to full custom build seems a bit unfair when considering the amount of resources and budget of a manufacturer and those of (often) a single individual. On the balance, the manufacturer’s engineering & design teams have to adhere to a strict specification bill where the individual builder is freed of all constraints, allowing a full expression of his/her creativity. Another aspect is motorcycle racing, where a production bike is being transformed by an individual or a small team into a racing machine, engineering becomes primordial in achieving the best performance possible and aesthetics are only a result of functionality. Another form of creativity. If you think of the motorcycle as a blend of this trio of design/engineering/fabrication, it’s fair to say that different people value different ratios of these elements for what represents their ideal motorcycle.

you might notice it if you were in heavy traffic in 90 degree heat and 60% humidity. Like stuck on Main street at Daytona Bikeweek or on a muggy summer evening trying to get into the Indianapolis Fairgrounds to see Flat Track race. Actually I ran my first Guzzi on regular. Not used to the gearbox, I took off in 2nd gear enough times to know better and went to premium. Yeah, it clattered pretty bad.

I made some progress on the installation this weekend. The wiring was a breeze utilizing spade connectors on the Speedhut wires to connect to the existing wiring on the bike. All of the Speedhut wiring fits easily into the space in the back cover. I didn't even unravel it. For the o-ring, I just cut the original o-ring/gasket and removed some of the material to leave two square o-rings of the right size. Here are pics of the new tach next to the old speedometer. The new one is a little bigger. Here is a pic of the tach all lit up! I still need to decide what to do about the back cover of the gauges. I am now leaning towards doing what previous user amstaf did and trim the "cups" to fit around the Speedhut lock nuts and then secure it using three M4 screws from behind threaded into the existing screw mounts on back of the warning light cluster. The Speedhut lock nuts secure the gauge really well. I am just worried about water potentially getting into the cups around the seal. I will probably remove the o-ring that I currently have between the lock nut and the dash and then move it to behind the lock nut so that it presses against the "cups"

You may be correct too. So I am back to square one? 91RON on the sticker should read 91 ((RON/MON)/2) or AKI. In France, the minimum Octane number (RON) is 95 since 1991. That being said, Ethylene adds to the Octane. Could this be the explanation why a V11 runs fine on 87 AKI?

I will venture that all V11 Sport/ LeMans (V11 EV etc are a different animal!) run best on 95 RON/ 91 AKI (minimum). And further, that whatever sticker got applied to various US sold V11 LeMans swingarms, they are not a reliable reference, and for US/North America should have read either 95 RON or 91 AKI. We have seen worse translation errors . . .

To me the narrative is extremely important, including some of the personal information. That is what I meant. Like, why are you selling it, why did you purchase it in the first place...

The problem is people don't understand the difference between engineering, designing and fabricating. Many of these crude and impractical creations are all about fabrication (often quite good) with a pinch of usually bad design thrown in and scant regard to the engineering. Anyone with some basic tools and hand skills can strip components off a motorcycle (usually the stuff that makes it a practical riding proposition and road legal) and call it a "custom" or an "interpretation" of god knows what. The truth is motorcycles are not "art". They can be beautiful and an expression of a designers philosophy but if they don't adequately fulfil the design brief then they are just a piece of crafted machinery of limited utility. When I see a "customised" motorcycle like some of the examples shown that are intended to be road ridden then I'm with Pete. These bikes don't fulfil the design brief of a real world road rideable machine in the 21st or even the 20th century in most cases. The other issue is a cultural one. An interesting observation I have made watching many many US based car and motorcycle shows is Individuality is valued above just about everything else in the US and that includes practicality in more cases than I can sometimes believe. Most of these types of bikes are aimed at the American market and the US market is also where the dollar is to spend on such things. And if it's aimed at the American market then these days by default it's aimed at us as well. If you want to study the most brilliant motorcycle designers on the planet then just call into your local motorcycle shop and see what they are selling. With all the limitations and regulations they are lawfully bound to observe in every country in the world and the necessity to make the product real world road rideable you can't help but be impressed. These people make "customizers" look like the backyard hackers the vast majority really are. Phil

Would you be mad at me if I did? Chris, from my Australian point of view, Pete is light hearted and tolerant. Narrow-minded reactionary arseholes is a bit of an Australian speciality, at least in the time of my youth and in the countryside where I grew up. Going by what he writes here, Pete isn't one of them.

All this talk about more power and faster...it has a place. But no one rides a Guzzi for that. It's the "feel", the inertia of that locomotive flywheel pulling you, the steady feel in corners. I ride my Ducati and it's almost too good. Some times it's just boring. I get on one of the Guzzis, it still gives me a smile. I like all my bikes but I spent so much time on the Duc, I get on the Guzzi and it's a nice change. Lately, the Duc has been sitting. I don't have enough curvy roads for it.

One of the issues with fastener surface finish be it for colour or corrosion protection is it doesn't last and ages. Part of the reason all my bikes get the titanium fastener treatment. Titanium is not only light and strong but the surface finish remains in brand new out of the packaging condition for ever. Some owner in a hundred years is going to appreciate that. Phil

Well, I hope the manufacturer of the tank bag knew that. Four screws holding the ring, and two of them in the short holes. It's one of these.... https://www.hepco-becker.de/tankring-lock-it-inkl-tankrucksackgegenhalter-fuer-moto-guzzi-scura-le-mans-ballabio-coppa-italia-cafe-sport-sport-naked-sport.html Incidentally, the kit includes spacers that put the ring high enough to clear the chin pad. That means, on mine, no chin pad, there is nearly a half an inch breezeway between the bracket and the top of the tank. When I get the lengths of the spacers and screws worked out so that it sits down close to a tank without a chin pad, I'll post it here. PS: I have absolutely no doubt that blackening bits on a Scura is the single most important thing in the entire universe.

I always think, if I'm looking at having to buy a new part, it can't hurt to try and fix the broken one. It is, after all, already broken. What can go wrong? Do keep us informed of your progress.

@docc I contacted the owner of the 2000 Quota 1100ES which I am contemplating to buy, and he always ran it with 87 Octanes fuel (AKI) in Boise Idaho. Never observed anything strange with the engine. Quota's compression ratio is 9.5:1 I have read a few Petroleum Companies narratives on the subject and they tag high compression ratio from 10.0:1 I think we have beaten this topic to death. 91 (Ron+Mon/2) is most likely what the sticker meant. Even if they had meant RON, there is no fuel sold that meets that criteria in Europe using the RON method of Octane calculation. It starts at 95 RON.

The lamp parts method worked well for me and has held up. I liked the ability to re-use the gauge cup without modification (except for a hole I drilled for the odometer reset button). I've done that twice now (on my ex Red LeMans and my current Nero Corsa). Someone else then improved on what I did, by gluing a larger base to the back of the gauge. I would borrow that idea if I were to do another set (if the Scura gauges break).

Yes, I had a very similar thought whilst reading that.

@4corsa Chuck builds airplanes in his backyard, with a hanger & fab building and grass strip. Your bother's plane is beauty. You guys be careful up there.

You are right, the OD of the lock nuts is too much for the un-modified cover to slip over them. Even trimming off the ribs would not get it thin enough for the cover to slip over. A back-up option I am noodling is having my friend 3D print me a new back cover which is slightly adjusted to accommodate the larger diameter of the lock nuts. But I think the cover would then protrude over the metal dash plate. In order to use the original cover, I need to either trim it back or find an alternate way of securing the gauges such as the lamp parts method demonstrated on some of the earlier pages of this thread.

Since the discovery of that "91 RON" on the sticker, which I never actually properly digested, as I assumed it meant 91 as in US Premium that varies from 91 to 93 for Ethylene baptized gases, I am tempted to check 87. There is no way, on a motorbike, that you would not catch knocking right away. But I am convinced that 91 was meant to be labelled (RON+MON)/2 but somewhat, only RON appeared. Maybe the labeling machine did not have no + signs? there is simply no 91 RON that makes sense.

My Suzuki did NOT enjoy it either . I got maybe a gallon in my bike . It was a long 15 mi. home .

In "a pinch", I suppose a 2-stroke mix would be okay, but I tried diesel fuel once and didn't get much past pulling away from the pump . . . Docc, I take it you had to drain the diesel and start over? Sounds like a story for the Tennessee Spine Raid "Tech Sessions bourbon garage".

After thinking , I will have to say "IDK" to all 3 questions and take a stab at #3 . I would suspect the oil spray on the bottom of the pistons may cool the pistons enough to lower the piston / cylinder temperature enough to change things , I am not sure.

They don't fit my definition of art and I've owned 3 of them. Beautiful yes, functional, yes, art, no. Phil

I say this, rather emphatically, yet wonder : > How did the V11 LeMans/Sport compression ratio actually get changed from early to late motors? > When did the piston oil sprayers get added? > Would the piston oil cooling affect the minimum octane requirement?

Wow, but we are using different scales to compare fuel octanes. Like, "I ride around at 100 on the speedo all the time, at 65 degrees." Oh, but that is mixing kilometers per hour with degrees Fahrenheit . . . Not at all like riding 100 mph at 65ºC ! Let's see if we can discern that the actual fuel octane recommendation from the manufacturer may have actually changed from the early V11 (1999-2001) to the later models with the higher compression and piston oil sprayers. My "early" Owners' Manual appears to specify 95 RON (~91 AKI/US) . . .

What year Cali 1400 is this? If it's throwing an 'Urgent Service' warning and going into limp mode it is most likely the demand sensor. If it's an early bike it is even more likely. There was a duff run of them at the very beginning. RSV4 Aprilias had the same issue. There was a recall for them.

Just needs some leather tassels hanging off the bars to finish it off...... I agree, some customs are good and some like matey's efforts above not so much! Ha ha, many mainstream riders look at us Guzzi nuts as a little er different too by the way.... Cheers

What people choose to do aesthetically or 'Artistically' to their bikes concerns me not a jot and I fully agree with your assessment that such things are subjective and if people want to do such things? Knock yerself out! That doesn't mean that I can't mock them as ugly and most importantly it doesn't mean that what they have done will be either 'Special' or indeed work in an engineering or mechanical sense. So many people make absurd and impossible claims about performance and functionality it just shits me to tears. I've tried to explain many times why the 8V 'Nuovo Hi-Cam' can't be made to make power and torque figures that can genuinely only be made by much more sophisticated engines but this is either ignored outright or some picture of a 'Dyno Chart' will be produced to 'Prove' the point! Sorry, but trying to use the laws of physics to argue against ignorance and stupidity is a fools errand. Dunno why I even bother apart from the fact I don't want the gullible being taken in by charlatans. With the old pushrod lump it's even more frustrating. Especially when stuck in a Tonti frame with a five speed gearbox and pre V11 final drive. You can, reliably, make mid eighties RWHP from an 1100. The factory erred on the side of conservatism and the donk makes about 76 in the V11. Yes you can get it to make more, but at a price. Now imagine what it's going to be like putting that power, or more, through a clutch, gearbox and driveline designed to handle not much more than 50? Its life span will in the words of some nineteenth century philosopher, be Brutish and Short! So what does that mean? Either these people have managed to change the laws of physics and the sciences of metallurgy, and engineering! Or? They are full of shit! I reiterate, if people like these things as 'Art'? Fine. Knock yerself out. To me they are obnoxious gobshitery! NOBODY HAS TO AGREE WITH ME!

I still like these....

As I was saying , oil / filters are not that expensive . I have never ruined an engine by frequent oil changes . It is a free country .

The nice thing about Photoshop is you can make changes and they don't cost a thing! See, carbon fiber side panels and red valve covers! It was quick too! Anyone want to have some free mods? Post a large photo of your bike with your request! Sarcastic requests will be met with brutal results.

It's a bit more complicated than that. It's essentially a four track TPS that constantly compares the readings against each other and a known baseline to regulate throttle opening. Being RBW there is no direct connection between the twistgrip and throttlebody. If the ECU sees a discrepancy between any of the parameters of any of the four tracks it will throw the bike into limp mode. If it sees a discrepancy between two or more tracks it will shut the engine down and, thoughtfully, put on the brake light!