Gmc28

studio version has more of a "hook" with the clean lead-in percussion, but this is good -

Amen. Way, way back octane choice had a more visible effect in some ways (pinging, fuel econ), in my opinion, but that was way back, when carburators were the norm and ECU’s were not, etc. 25 plus yrs now I’ve run only regular in all my Italian and Germanic machines, 2-wheelers and 4, with zero differences other than a lower fill-up cost. LT, the somewhat well-known Ducati guru, says he never runs premium in any of his machines. I run it only in my less-ridden V11’s now, but only because it’s the only ethanol free gas I can get. All my other machines, and even the Guzzi’s on a road trip, just run regular. Sorry PO, Daveguzzi1, that we digressed into an octane discussion! But mixed in here is the good stuff/advice on the “decent tune up” to establish the baseline, so more specific troubleshooting ideas can be focused. Your choice to run 100 octane may as Phil says be making things either worse, or less clear.

Ragpickers Dream, Sailing to Philadelphia, and Shangri-La fit my taste nicely, though like a good album (or albums) should be, the stuff I did'nt prefer at first then grew on me, and the stuff that had a "hook" on the first listen then faded. common them for many artists (no big secret there), and for me as a listener, to have the hook songs get you to "sign up", so that you'll maybe then develop a taste for the other tracks. I flew some well known musicians around on tour in years past, and I remember commenting to one of them about a great new song he played for the first time at a show, in prep for the next album release, and he said "ya, thats the hook, and i find it boring, but hopefully people will then listen to the stuff i'm actually proud of if they buy the album for that hook". I found all those Knopfler albums good enough to play in the background while working on remodeling my home years ago, but then later after having it as background music, I only then realized "damn, this is really good". But not for all his music...

One New River, the new album from Knopfler, is out today. I just downloaded. Big fan, but while his style doesn’t vary dramatically, i do find that some albums become “best of all time” category for me, and others just barely get listened to.

Got things lined up do work on goldie this weekend (noid light, etc), got some more good input from Gstallons, and decided to pop out to shop just for a minute after dinner. Had a big dose of seafoam in the fuel, circulated through the pump and filter. Cleaned up the throttle body air adjust screws, and squirted carb cleaner up in that orifice, as well as the TB sync ports. And, she started. Ran like hell, wouldn’t idle on her own, but she was firing on both cylinders. So now we’re back to running really poorly, versus not running at all. May or may not change what i go after next. when she was really parked, about 4 yrs ago, she ran sweet. That implies the usual tune-up items should be ok, and that the issue is still an “old fuel gunk” type issue. But I’ll do a quick check on some of the basic stuff first (has new plugs, can’t imagine valve adjustments moved while static, i suppose i can check TPS and Throttle body sync, and do all that pretty quick). Maybe I’m an idiot and didn’t check the air filter…. Sitting around for years maybe critters got up in there. Hmm. Love removing that tank….

No argument here. And far be it from me to become an apostle for anything but the many Odysseys i have or have had. Just more or less parroting what you, others, and myself have all hit upon, which is that time has led to the evolution of the batt tech to the extent that now we seem to be mostly living with the reputation/issues of the past which may not be as applicable now. In the example noted on the posts just above, sounds like you’ve got an old odyssey thats still performing, and I also have averaged 7-9+ yrs on my odysseys, and even then they aren’t “dead”, so that has always kept me a loyal follower. I’m just adding in the data point(s) that this old shorai I’ve got is also in that age range, experienced a couple of the “too far gone” near-death experiences (voltage dropped to below the normally recoverable range due to issues on the KTM) early on, but not only is it not dead but its cranking the V11 longer and harder than any battery I’ve used…..All much to my surprise. I looked up the specs on it, and sure enough it indicates more CCA than the equivalent odyssey (no surprise, given the nature of the 2 different chemistry/techs), but i figured it would die fast given its age & abuse, and lack of amp-hr, which just didn’t happen. Weird, in a good way, and not really sure what to conclude from that. As another data point in line with the title of this thread, I did last year remove a cheap-O lithium battery from another of my (larger cc) bikes, one that I inherited from the previous owner of the bike. The brand… hmm…. I’ll think of it. I think it was 3 letters (AMG maybe?), and shows to be about half the price of the usual higher end lithium batteries. When i removed it, it was just shy of 7 yrs old. It got no special treatment, spent the winters on a 2a lithium specified tender (For better or worse?), and it did experience the bad trait of barely performing in cold winter conditions (barely cranked the bike when down around 0 degrees C). But other than that it performed fine. It just spooked me when I’d go to start the bike in cold conditions, and was getting old, so i replaced it. The new lithium battery i put in cranks the bike really well in the cold (EarthX)… so far very good, but it’s new.

Thanks Audiomick…. I was looking for exactly that info on the guzzidiag info this afternoon.

I hear ya, and that was mostly where I stood up till a few years ago. but that old Shorai that I thought was at the end of its rope 4-5yrs ago (after it was older and abused/killed) and which i just again today at lunch used on the V11 to cycle the fuel pump a bunch more times, and again crank the engine, all over the last several days with no charging, and its still going strong and showing good voltage. none of my Odysseys would do all that for that long. crazy. They offer it, but on the AntiGravity website it appears the AG1201 does not have it, as they make that one with a smaller form factor in mind. Unless I read that wrong from their website page for the AG1201: Note: there is no BMS in the SMALL CASE Batteries, only Balance Charging. They are for closed course use only. Though I assume a different model from them could be used that would have it. I just ordered the EarthX, the larger one. It's more expensive, and maybe not worth the extra $60, but figured i'd err on the side of over-coddling the electrics on this machine.

Hi Docc- Goldie has Bosch, and early on i confirmed #5 was “clicking”, and then swapped 4 & 5 anyway just to see if anything would change. The nefarious #1 and 2….. not really. Checked #2, the 30a, and the fuse and receptacle looks good/clean and unaltered in any obvious way by heat. I suppose i need to pull the bus and check underneath?

Drained old gas, put in fresh (ethanol free) gas, ran the pump to push clean fuel through and out the return line till it was clear. New plugs. No start. Will sputter with a shot of alcohol in the cylinder. It’s just not getting fuel. Based on the schematic, I’m assuming that since fuel is flowing out of the return line to the tank (when i pull the line from its fitting) when the pump cycles on, that the filter (new) isn’t somehow the issue. Or some other kink or line blockage. Next I’ll pull a line to an injector to assure fuel is getting that far. As far injector issues, is there a basic, quick check? I’ve never had actual injector issues. Plenty of times when i thought i had injector issues on other bikes, but was always a false alarm (the smoking gun was elsewhere…. As in bad fuel, and good fuel just fixed the issue)

makes sense. the Antigravity is not cheap, but enough cheaper than the EarthX to make it of interest if a guy has the mosfet setup (i do).

anyone have opinions on the Antigravity vs EArthX (or others)? I see Gritman has the AntiGravity, which folks tend to like on a variety of platforms (bikes), and seems like the usual other top contender is an EarthX (though also Yuasa, etc). The Antigravity AG1201 doesnt have the BMS (battery management system) like the EArthX, and i don't know enough about that to know whether its snake-oil or if its of value. sounds like maybe with a modern VR it may not matter, based on this thread's content, but am looking for more info.

having some fun bringing back an Odyssey from near-death, and that looks to coming along fine (thanks Docc and all for the odyssey "bible" thread). But while doing so, with the odyssey out and on the rack for its rehab program, i popped in an old Shorai into the Lemans so i could continue to work on other issues while its up on the bike rack. I removed the Shorai from a KTM 990 at least 5 yrs ago, maybe 6+ yrs ago (i'll check my records), because at the time the KTM was having issues and that battery was drained too far, multiple times, and seemed shot. it had been in the bike at that point for a year or two already, so i can say with confidence that its now at least 7yrs old. it then became my shop battery, used for whatever oddball needs i had, including powering my clay pigeon "flinger", and other such honorable tasks. hit it about once a year with the li-ion specified 2a charger. so, popped it in, "backwards" and upright with seat off since the posts are on the wrong sides for the V11, and that thing was impressive. Many crank cycles on the bike, running the fuel pump repeatedley, lights, etc., with no charging intervals, and it just kept going. and when it was cranking, it cranked over the V11 much better than any of the other batteries in my (3) V11's (all odysseys). that Shorai was abused, and is old, but its punching hard still. Anecdotal, but I think noteworthy. put an EarthX in the big 1200 Ducati last fall, and its been impressive. Came back to my home airport one sunny but cold winter morning, to ride home, and it was right around freezing outside, and the bike was truly cold-soaked from days sitting there in those temps. Cranked slightly slower, but no problem. I do the thing where i turn on the key to let the battery "warm up" as is recommended, but in truth I've never seen much difference. thats either good or bad based on the outcome.... good in that i've never needed to, even when its getting too cold for most mortals to be willingly riding, but bad i suppose if i'm counting on some dramatic improvement in cranking ability when its super cold. but i haven't really given it a proper test, to be fair.

Thanks Docc. I probably used too many words on my post, confusing the issue…. I have been using a manual 10a charger for the old battery, doing the discharge and charge cycles, and so far with some apparent success, but question is about the other charger: Whether anyone has heard of the BatteryMinder branded 8A charger, one of the ones approved by Odyssey, ever doing what its doing to me, where it kicks off from the AGM & 8A mode after about 10 mins, when it then shows “weak battery”, and reverts on its own to Flooded & 2A mode.

Interesting. I did check the spark the simple way, grounding it against the case, and both fired visually just fine in that little test, but perhaps as you’ve indicated not the case in the chamber. Easy enough to address that! Thank U Pete

Thanks Phil - makes sense, just never had it be this bad. But if there is in fact gas that old in there (I thought i freshened it up last time around, but maybe not), then the smoking gun will be easily fixed tomorrow! Years ago someone brought me their Cagiva Gran Canyon (ducati 904) to see if i could get it running right for them. Both times after going through all the usual stuff, which took some man-hours, i finally realized it was just old fuel. Felt stupid, but they got a sweet running bike back. Then I did the exact same thing again years later….. Embarrassing. You’d think I’d learn, but, well, what can i say. But in both cases the bikes (both Ducati 904’s) would run, just real poorly. Maybe this gas is just older.

Looking to sort out what would keep Goldie (v11 lemans) from getting fuel, other than the usual culprits (petcock off, bad filter, bad pump, which all are fine). I’m thinking this week just changing out the old fuel which has been sitting way too long will be the solution to why she won’t start. But it’s nagging at me that she doesn’t run poorly with the old gas, something I’m familiar with, but she won’t run at all, won’t even cough/fire, and the plugs are dry. Is there something in the fuel injection setup that will just cause fuel to not be introduced to the throttle bodies? Fuel injection on bikes for me has always been “works good, lasts a long time”, so I’ve got nothing to draw on there in my personal memory banks. The clues for those indulging me with reading this quiz: goldie was my sweetheart till the friend i bought it from said he’d like to buy it back. So I parked her and bought Red, and have been riding Red ever since, so about 3-4yrs. (And no, still hasn’t bought goldie back yet :->) Goldie went into storage mode running perfect, back then. Then each year some new problem would come up when I’d run her. Last go-around was the fuel pump died, so replaced that and the filter. Then she’d run, but poorly. That was about a year ago, maybe longer. I think i put in some fresh gas then, but thinking maybe i didn’t, or i did but that gas is now also getting old on top of the other old gas that was in her plumbing. Fuel pump runs smooth and pushes fuel out the return line like it should (when i disconnect it). Thinking I’ll just empty what fuel is in her using the fuel pump via the return line (partly because I’m sick of pulling that tank off), put in some fresh gas, and maybe problem solved. But I’d think she should at least cough/splutter a bit with that old gas? If so, am i missing something obvious as to why she’s maybe not getting fuel? Will sleep on it and maybe erase this post out of embarrassment of the obvious solution which may come to me….

Thread is already bloody long, but same topic, so…. 545 in Goldie wasn’t happy at all, presumably because despite me saying I’ve not had issues over the years using the “wrong” little deltran float charges (~1a units), that delusional reality fell on its face in Goldie, which pretty much has sat in the shop for about 3yrs, or maybe longer, on a little deltran 1.25a float charger. So for “fun” will try and bring it back to life. Have my trusty Battery Minder 8A unit I’ve used for such things, with its AGM setting (etc). Weird thing, and the point of this post, is that it starts its usual charge, then after 5-10 mins, the yellow “weak battery” light comes on, then it cycles itself away from 8amp/AGM charge to one of the other settings (i think its the “flooded” setting) and goes to 2amps. Weird. So I’ll try it again, same thing. Never seen that before with this charger. Sign of a really bad battery, or is there an evil spirit in the Battery Minder? Hit the (highly) suspect battery with a 10a charger after discharging it, repeated as described in this thread, and it seems to be coming back, but the battery minder is still doing the same thing, cycling away from its proper amperage and battery type setting on its own after about 10 mins, after the “weak battery” yellow light comes on. (I’m only able to use the big 10a manual unit for the charge cycles). Seems to work fine still on the other V11’s. As an anecdotal side-not, to keep working on Goldie I temporarily popped in a Shorai Li-ion battery I removed from the KTM about 6 yrs ago, it was strong! Crazy. Half the size, twice the CCA, and she worked a charm.

Finally got a chance to pull her off the stand and get her out on the road, for a run-in-the-sun down to the local ethanol-free gas station. Proof of life. She has a different feel than the Lemans(s), or at least more than I had expected. She starts, idles, and runs sweet, but is a bit more buzzy at some rpm's (pods/airflow/TBS, etc), and I feel as though she's a lot smaller for my tall-ish body than the Lemans, though I know that's mostly in my head. Now back to Goldie, to see if I can get her ready for the June 28 MG gathering at John Day, for my Guzzi buddy to ride (i'll be on Red)

sounds about right. i'd say just lack of fuel, like with most other pumps which start to howl when they run out of fluid to pump. however now that you mention it the fact that it ran smooth/quiet when bench tested, dry, means that just running dry isn't the issue, but instead would be a pressure issue, as you've noted. whether that would be a drop or an increase..... i'd think the flow was decreased and the pressure increased downstream of kink, which is upstream from pump. getting into the weeds a bit, but interesting. I can just confirm that uninterrupted flow = happy fuel pump.

This is perhaps old news for some, and it may never be valuable info, but for what its worth, the howling sound that may come from one of these fuel pumps can be good ol’ fashioned cavitation. MGcycle sent me a new pump lickety-split, but it was still bothering me why this original new pump they sent me was howling. Maybe Sucked in some grit stuck, or was it somehow mounted too tight and causing the case to rub on the internals (i knew that wasn’t it), or?? Bottom line is that when i pushed up hard on the main fuel line from the tank to the pump to ease the L-shaped “kink” in the line, the same kink that was there from before all this project started (same hose, same routing), the howling stopped. Removed line, shortened it and re-routed it slightly, and problem solved. So i’ll send this un-used new pump back to them (which they sent me no charge)… with a little egg on my face.

The beast is alive. She starts and runs sweet now, and looks nice and tarty…. However, the new/replacement fuel pump works, but is buzzing loudly, so the good folks at MGcycle are sending along another one. Now can get that thing off my lift, after way too long, and make room for Red, who needs her annual shop-love. In other news, the beloved KTM 990 will go for sale very soon, as its time, and is the opportunity to remove the final Germanic influence from my garage.

I can look for the other source…. But I think the other one was also German, so probably lousy shipping cost options there also.

Good thinking. But it (tank) was clean and dry for the paint work… so if there’s a smoking gun beyond just an old, bad pump, then my little brain leans toward something related to paint…. Residual tape, or overspray, or that kind of thing. I’m good/careful with that stuff, but last I checked I’m still human, so prone to some error (am still hoping for an android upgrade, like Steve Austin, or Wolverine) Might just be chasing ghosts, as the pump may be all there is to it. Will know when the pump shows up next week. Already have a new filter installed now… had a spare for red sitting on shelf.

Agreed. Never have before and didn’t need to, but sounds like a good idea. I was just surprised there was that much residual pressure in the line 24hrs later. But maybe it shouldn’t a surprise…