Weegie

Pete Check your PMs

See what I can do and let you know Pete, re Gav the painter I'll drop Giovanni Magni a line too, may as well, nothing to lose Magni is very hit & miss in replying at the best of times, but I've bought some stuff off him over the years (for me & others) so it's worth a try Watch this space John

I reckon you'll be able to get the decals direct from Magni, Pete Last I contacted Magni, a couple of weeks back he was closed due to the BatFlu but I want to contact him anyway, so no hassle to add the request, try again and see what comes up. No guarantees but it's worth a shot I can also drop a line to the guy who resprayed mine, he replicated the decals and then airbrushed them into the paintwork, then sealed them with clear coat If you know a good airbrush guy he could spray them onto the tank then seal them in. I'll drop a line to Gav the painter who did mine and ask if he could forward the files if he still has them Be glad to help, if I can John

Here's how mine looks now Pete I know, I know, took a work of art and butchered it Not sure, possibly the Classico & the Arturo were before it. Anyway as already said "Eye of the Beholder", personally I think they are things of beauty, compare them with Guzzi's offering of the time, the LM 1000 from which it's derived

Yeah it's a Daytona RS lump 16M ECU, docc

I've heard these chips mentioned a lot but know absolutely nothing about them The engine I've got is a Non Swiss/US/Singapore HiCam so I was wondering which models is the Creedon chip applicable to, are they still available and would I benefit from getting one for this engine? John

That's a bummer Pete Don't make yourself a stranger be great to meet up again, how's about next year if God spares us? Hopefully they'll be 5 Guzzis in the shed, perhaps some of them running A wee run out weather permitting?? Anyway Charlotte and me would love to see the pair of you again, both Jude and your good self would be more than welcome (beers on me) John

Tried them in the past, but not on Guzzis, but they never really worked for me. I use a Mityvac that I've had forever and like, the Power Bleeder kit looks good too. Like Phil I try to do it every other year (doesn't always happen though) Never found it that difficult to do, some are easier than others, especially if you empty the circuit (rear brake and the hydro clutch on the Ducati can be a bit of a pain). If you're just pulling fluid through until its clean it's not hard at all. I try to exercise the circuit by using the lever to get all the pistons moving and get rid of as much of the old fluid out as possible. If still not satisfied I'll drain it down then bleed through fresh fluid for a few fills then nip up the bleed screws. You'll know by feel when there's no air in the circuit anyway.

That's just bloody scary Pete, can I ask what were the symptoms it displayed? Specifically wondering about overheating. Going Off Topic for a minute I'll start a separate thread later but it turns out that the oil pressure I'd been chasing for a long time mainly posting on WildGoose appears to have been a WildGoose Chase after all. The HiCams run at a lower pressure due to a combination of increased oil feed to the heads and the relief valve passing before it actually cracks at relief pressure. So I'm putting it back together with an aftermarket Setrab or Mocal (haven't made my mind up yet) cooler to see how I get on, Phil's been great in helping me understand what's going on in these engines Just checking the cams (when the bloody tools I need arrive) to ensure 2 things 1) That I'm not a tooth out on the belts (I've been into the oil pump and gears to do some odds and ends, then replaced the belts), pretty confident I'm not but better to be sure 2) That the factory assembled it correctly in the first place. If the manual shows a diagram that's clearly wrong showing how to set cam timing then IMHO there's every possibility that it may have been set incorrectly at Mandello. Can only agree whole heartedly with Chuck John (AKA Old Jock on WG)

Hi docc No these are the originals that I tested and posted up. The Ducati coils have yet to arrive. Not holding my breath judging by the state of both US and UK postal services Hoping the Ducati coils will be identical they are the same Marelli BAE 850AK as used by Guzzi

OEM Primary 0.6, 0.63 Ohm Secondary 3.172, 3.188 K Ohm Post the Ducati pair here when they arrive

I'll wait until the replacements arrive and when they do I'll measure all 4 primary and secondary then post them up

Phil was helping me out and setting me straight with this, but I thought it ought to be brought to the attenion of any of those you unfortunate enough to have one of these engines and needing to check the cam timing because the manual is (how shall I put this) ambiguous On the cams for the Daytona RS (non US & Singapore) Page 84 This tells you to go to 69.5 degrees on the exahust After BDC for 1mm of lift I'm ASSuming "feeler" is dial gauge and "induction" is lift as also added in there just to spice it up some more Fig 11.51 clearly shows the Degree Wheel at 69.5 degrees After BDC. (just to re-enforce the point) I just dread to think some poor RS owner out there taking bike to shop (let's say for belts change that ends up a little pear shaped).....................................mechanic gets web manual and religously does it to the book!! Checking out Page 89 on that page they give me 2 sets of cam timings for the RS version (non US & Singapore) & none for the RS version (US & Singapore). Clearly the Centauro and RS for US & Singapore are the same so the top timing diagram refers to these models & the bottom diagram refers to the RS (non US & Singapore) Looking at the bottom diagram and text on Page 89 Cam timing Exhaust Lift (1mm) 63.5 degrees Before BDC Inlet Closes (1mm) at 69.5 degrees After BDC So my best guess is To set the Cams Establish TDC on each of the cylinders Obtain 63.5 degrees engine rotation on each cylinder Before BDC & check for 1mm of lift on the relevant Exhaust Cam Follower/Pushrod If anybody else knows different please come and correct my stupidity, I've spent a good bit of time trying to make any sense of the instructions and when I finally did (thanks to Phil) I then find it's wrong

Closing this out as it's not going anywhere I got a spare set of BAE 850s off a Ducati from the Bay of Fleas, cost me as much to ship over the pond as the price of the coils, but at least I've got a couple of spares Should you need them, don't limit your search to Guzzis, Ducati used them and probably some of the other Italian suspects to

Primary for normal coils that I'm used to on Tontis and the like are usually a lot higher 5 Ohms, Guzzis don't need really fast saturation time AFAIK. There is still the perrenial threads about Dynas burning out with 3.0 Ohm coils on the older bikes However perhaps these coils are a different design but with no information I haven't a clue. Seems though a lot of modern coils seem to have lower primaries.

Gotcha docc I see on the data sheet that the switching load is 35A but the rated load is 20A, that's sorta misleading

docc, going off topic for a second Just asking a question, why are the Panasonic underated? I haven't when through the whole spec, but providing the Panasonic are the sealed type, which look like the type Grim has, both relays are rated for the same same loads 35A NO 20A NC

No Dave I tried searching and couldn't find any spec sheets, all I can measure would be the Primary and secondary coils, but they seem a bit of a mystery It's not a biggie it was just a thought that perhaps somebody had replaced a set with Dynas or the like John

Just wondered if anybody put anything different onto their bikes in place of the stock BAE 850 coils. I'm relocating the coils from their original position up at the front of the bike in an attempt to install a larger oil cooler on a Magni Australia (Hi Cam engine identical to the Daytona RS and Centauro). The only suitable place I can find is at the rear of the bike above where the rear shock is. They are going to be a bit of pain to fit due to their shape and one has a broken shroud on the LV plug, so I thought about replacing them They work well enough but measuring primary resistance I got 0.6 Ohms which is very low. John

Thanks Phil. I still wonder what the manual is trying to tell me?? Common sense indicated that would be the way to go and the confirmation is much appreciated John

Phil Looking at your build thread it appears, although I'm asking the question really, that what you did is as I stated, and looked at the exhaust valve lift in relation to valve timing, or was it when it came off the cam? Either way if for example the exhaust cam position is checked relative to the crank, then both inlet and exhaust are fixed for that cylinder. Then move on and do the other side. I don't think that's beyond me just need to purchase a dial gauge and a clamp or mag base (which won't work on a Aluminuim block but I could build up something to sit close to the cam), which I'll do. As it's not a huge job to get into the belts and cams, I think I'll just build the engine up and try it again. If after the intended mods it's still overheating then I can strip it off to get to the belts and check the valve timing. If I can relocate the coils it also relieves me of the tedious task of having to take the coils and their mounting bracket on & off. No clue if it's the same as Guzzi's approach but on the Australia it's a Heath Robinson designed PIA. I already know about the verniers on the cams and I agree it's elegant, but they aren't something to be messed with unless you have the right equipment and more importantly know exactly what you're doing John

Hi Marty Thanks for the input. I really know nothing about any of these variables in regard to this engine. It's a stock Daytona RS HiCam engine, running a 16M ECU as those bikes do. Ignition timing is governed by the Phonic Wheel and it's not possible to alter that AFAIK as it installs onto the Jackshaft (or service shaft as Guzzi call it) using dowels. Injection is the same (fixed by the wheel & map) apart from balancing each side, which is easy to do. Valve timing is whole different ball game and looking at the manual, I struggle to understand what it's trying to tell me. I could probably do it although I'll need to purchase some dial gauges and mag bases. Phil might help guide me, I'd have thought all I would have needed is to determine crank angle using a degree wheel and dial gauges on the cams to see max lift on either inlet or exhaust at the appropriate crank angle for each cylinder, but if that's what the manual is telling me it's bloody long winded. When it did overheat on me, it certainly didn't seem to lose any pep and was still pulling well on the way back home, after letting the engine cool somewhat. The plugs looked fine and didn't show any leaness, as for the headers TBH I never looked, besides they are now Ceramic coated. Now Need to think some more about my next course of action now

Thanks guys in that case I'll just leave it be I wonder if anybody else has any other data on pressures. It's not really a biggie now as I know that the pressure is good and I can get back to putting it together rather than tearing it to pieces Phil and Chuck you both have been a fantastic help and stopped me spending countless fruitless hours doing surgery I didn't need to Just got to build it back up again, get the front subframe back on then relocate the coils so as I can install a larger cooler (well that's the plan). Still a lot of work but if this lockdown ends the bike might see the light of day before the riding season finishes (and I get too old to ride the damm thing) John

It would appear so Phil I looked on the other head nothing. Then checked it with a thin piece of bicycle cable and it appears closed but still deeper than I'd like and the cable bottoming is no guarantee that it still isn't a leak path Any ideas on sealing, you think JB Weld would be sufficient or is a head removal and strip in my future? John

I'm not holding out much hope here as very few mount a pressure gauge onto their bikes or even test it. However if anybody out there has information from their motorcycle I'd be interested. This all started with a HiCam I have and was related to both overheating and oil pressure, anybody who frequents Wild Goose should be well aware of the problem as I've posted about it until everybody there is sick to the back teeth with it.......................so I came here . I can't be bothered going into the details about the overheating, but I thought the overheating and low pressure were linked, now I'm starting to think that the low pressure isn't a problem at all and for close to 2 years I've been chasing a ghost. Recently I've gained a little more information, but its left me with a whole raft of questions that leave me baffled and confused. Lucky Phil came onto WG and started to assist, nothing definitve came of that, except I gained a lot more knowledge about these engines and I'm grateful for all his insight and time that he invested. Starting from what I'm used to 2 valve engines 4 bar (58 psi) relief pressure, cold oil idle 65 psi or a little above (I assume the relief valve gets overwhelmed and pressure builds a bit over the valve setpoint) Hot running above 3k approx high 50s or low 60s psi Hot idle 15-10 psi usually Hi Cam 5 bar (72 psi) relief pressure (larger oil pump), cold idle 50-54 psi Cold to 3k, approx 70 psi (that test was done on a stationary engine and turning the pump with a drill, from experience it doesn't matter much if the engine is rotating or not) No hot data to speak of right now, as the bike was only run once and was overheating so I haven't got a data point where the temperature reached an equilibrium So I start to chase the missing pressure, the relief valve is set higher and I'm at least 10 lower perhaps 15 psi. I'll let Kevin_T chime in if he wants to give his side but he stated on page 5 of Phil's HiCam build thread he never seen the pressure higher that 53psi on a Centauro (another C kitted HiCam) Then fortuitously a buddy tests his Hi Cam engine, all of these HiCams are C kitted, just for completeness Cold idle 52-53psi Blip on cold to 3k approx 70psi (actual running engine) Let it get warm (but not stabilised just for a few minutes till the heads are warm, perhaps 10 minutes idling) 48psi One more thing, When I removed the rocker carriers (which also locate the cam followers) and left the head oil feed holes to the rocker exposed then cranked the bike the oil pressure on the gauge dropped from 50psi to 32, cold oil. These feeds do not appear to me to be that large, so the 18psi drop was a surprise. The green arrows are the exposed feeds I wonder is the pressure I'm seeing system wide or is the pressure switch tapping point I'm measuring the pressure from badly placed, it never was after all meant to really represent true system pressure. The take for me is there probably nothing wrong with the pressure on my engine but I'm left wondering why the readings are so low. The V11 went back from the Hi Cam's 21mm lobe pump to a 16mm but drives at a higher Crank/pump ratio and I hope to get some data on that soon Anybody who had data they could add would be of interest to me and possibly to others .