audiomick

Did Curtis confirm that then?

That would be my guess. Stein Dinse have a picture from a different angle to the one from Wendel. Seems to be a 10.9 https://www.stein-dinse.biz/product_info.php?products_id=4990#prettyPhoto

Would you care to measure and report the physical dimensions of the original relay, just for interest's sake? If you can manage inches and millimetres, that would be brilliant...

Interesting... I just had a look at Wendel Motorraeder in Berlin. https://wendelmotorraeder.de/moto-guzzi-ersatzteile-und-zubehoer-fuer-v11-modelle-c-30_3006_300602.html Going by the parts lists there, it looks like the bolt was changed for the models from 2003 onwards. Looking at the Guzzi part numbers listed there ( GU xxxx ) These two actually show two different versions for the bolt https://wendelmotorraeder.de/kardanwelle-v11-sportmandello-99-01-ex-30_3006_300602_30060201_3006020110_300602011009.html https://wendelmotorraeder.de/kardanwelle-v11-02-le-mansskura-ex-30_3006_300602_30060203_3006020310_300602031010.html this one only the "2nd version" https://wendelmotorraeder.de/kardanwelle-v11-nakedle-manns-01-02-ex-30_3006_300602_30060202_3006020210_300602021010.html and these two the part number shown in the links in docc's post https://wendelmotorraeder.de/kardanwelle-v11-03-04-corsa-ex-30_3006_300602_30060204_3006020410_300602041010.html https://wendelmotorraeder.de/kardanwelle-v11-03-05-cafballabio-ex-30_3006_300602_30060205_3006020510_300602051010.html In the second link, V11 Le Mans / Scura '02, there is a note next to the "first version", the bolt is number 12 in the diagramm (the note "1st version" and "2nd version" is only in the diagramm behind the first link....) i.e. " up until frame number KT 111393 [M1] BUT!! the original bolt for the "first" and "second" versions are listed as being unavailable (number crossed out), and an alternative number is listed. This number also appears in the diagramms for the models after 2003, i.e. the last two links, although the Guzzi part number there is not crossed out. That number links to here: 1035121 Without knowing for sure, I would take that to mean that the bolt for the later models will also work in the earlier ones.

Yes. Here is an explanation of the numbers, translated from here: https://www.rosentaler-schrauben.de/magazin/schrauben-festigkeitsklassen/ For anyone wanting to translate more of the document, I recommend this translator: https://www.deepl.com/translator Copy the text out of the linked article a paragraph or so at a time, and paste it into the left-hand window on the translator site.

That's a little bit weird.

I've been looking into the subjects of relay, and received a recommendation for a Hella relay for the V11 models. One of the plus points was the low profile of the relay in question. I haven't actually looked at it yet myself, but apparently there is not much room between the seat and the stuff under the seat. Could it be possible that the relays were taped in instead of being mounted to gain a bit of clearance? I don't consider that to be an elegant solution, but I could imagine someone doing that who was in a hurry and not inclined to figure out a "proper" solution.

It's an old topic, but here's some new information. Wendelmotorräder in Berlin seems to be able to supply an isolation block: https://wendelmotorraeder.de/silentbuchse-kardstrebe-v11_gu01359290-p-1037953.html HMB-Guzzi is now HMB-Moto due to the current "push" by Piaggio to secure all and every "Guzzi" domain in the world. The links to HMB-Guzzi don't work anymore. The isolation block that was linked further up is probably this: https://hmb-moto.de/Silentblock-Reaktionsstange-V11-alle-Modelle I know of one instance directly where the Rossopuro torque arm broke at the frame end. In connection with that, I was informed that they are generally inclined to break. The bloke who told me that is very well informed. Anyone who has one of those installed should keep an eye on it, I think.

It certainly looks a lot like the one in the photos on the Magni site. Very prety.

I was guilty of some sloppy language in that last post, volts where I meant amps. It is corrected now.

only when the coil is switched off probably, but I suspect that is not something to worry about too much. The resistor serves the same function. I spoke to my electronic technician colleague about it earlier. He confirmed that the purpose of the resistor is the same as that of the diode, but that resistors are not quite as effective as the diode in this function. I didn't follow his explanation very well, though. What I think is, the switching voltage sees a coil with low resistance and a resistor with higher resistance than the coil, so most of the amps go through the coil. The spike, coming out of the other end of the coil, sees the resistor and whatever electronics might be there with a much, much higher input resistance than the resistor is presenting, so most of the amps go through the resistor back to the other end of the coil and "short out". Don't know for sure if that is right, but it makes sense according to my basis electronic knowledge.

Yep, my Opel Astra does that too, as did the Opel Corsa before it.

The spike is caused by the same physics that allow a generator, an electric motor, a loudspeaker and your Shure microphone to work. Wiki article here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_field#Interactions_with_electric_currents Very quick summary: a current in a coil will produce a magnetic field and exert a force on magnets and magnetic objects within the field. This way round is what makes electric motors, loudspeakers and solenoids work. when a coil (or even a straight bit of wire) is within a magnetic field, a change in the magnetic field will generate an electric current in the coil (or wire). This way round is how generators and dynamic microphones work. A change in the magnetic field may be caused by moving a magnet past the coil, or the coil in relation to the magnetic field (generators, microphones...), or it may be caused by altering (switching off, for instance...) the current in a coil that is generating the field. The latter is how ignition coils work: the primary coil generates a magnetic field, the points open (ok, the ECU fires the ignition...), current in the primary is turned off. This changes the magnetic field, causing a current to flow in the secondary coil and fire the spark plugs. In the case of the solenoid, the voltage spike is kind of a "kick-back". The coil is generating the magnetic field to actuate the solenoid. Even though it is generating the field itself, current will still flow in the coil as the magnetic field collapses. As I understand it, the resulting current flows in the reverse direction to the actuating current, i.e. +Volts (much more than 12 Volt, but very low current) out of contact 85. Looking at the diagrams, the forward direction of the diode is from contact 85 to contact 86. That means, in normal operation the diode is "not conductive" to the +12V that is on contact 86. When + Volts are present at contact 85 (from the spike we are considering) the diode presents effectively no resistance, so the amperes flow down there instead of trying to go through any electronics that might be connected to contact 85. I'm guessing here, but I assume the voltage peak just shorts itself out through the diode against the other end of the coil. The rest of the discourse is a combination of "basic electronics for music students" that I learnt at Uni 40 years ago, and stuff out of that e-Hack document that I linked further up. If I got it wrong anywhere, please correct me.

Yes, that's about my comfortable limit, too. I'll probably ride the V35 Imola to work later. It's around 6°C now, but looking at maybe -2° C by the time I come home (between 10 and 11 p.m.). Good thing it is only about 5 km. .

I read something once, that warming up is not so necessary. If one takes it easy for the first 10 minutes or so, that is enough. And it saves fuel, which is better for your wallet and better for the environment. The Japanese bikes I have had all played along very well, and the V11 seems to be ok with that too. My V35 Imola is a different story. It has a phase between "choke is ok" and "I'm warm enough now" in which it is inclined to stop running if I don't keep it revving. In summer it is not much of a problem, but in winter when the temperatur is down around 3°C (yes, I do ride it sometimes in those conditions...) it can be a bit critical. Letting it warm up for a couple of minutes is not a bad thing. If I were prepared to invest some money in the carbs, I might be able to sort that out too, but I have most of the parts and the notion to put together a 350 4-valve motor, which would need bigger carbs, so I'm living with that for the time being.

Yes, having had a closer look, you're right. That is not a Magni fairing. The "bulge" going back from the side of the headlight is a dead giveaway. The one in the ad looks like a copy of an old Ducati 900 or 750 SS. Something like this: https://www.ricambiweiss.com/de/verkleidungsteile/ducati-537/ducati-750-900-ss-koenigswelle/dr75-s-ricambi-weiss-motorrad-verkleidung-halbschale-ducati-750-900-ss-moto-guzzi-le-mans.html Be that as it may, the photos in the ad don't do the bike justice. They were probably taken with a mobile phone or something. The lens on the "camera" is very wide angle, and the photos show a great deal of lens abberation.

Thanks. In the meantime I had a look at this again: https://www.e-hack.de/der-grosse-kfz-relais-ratgeber/ which actually answers both question. Nevertheless, it's good to have the information here, I reckon. That document says the same thing. It goes on to explain that the function is to damp the Voltage peak that is generated by the collapsing magnetic field in the coil when the activating current is turned off. Resistors don't work as well for that, but don't care which way round the activating current is connected, i.e. if the positive is on contact 85 or on 86, because a resistor doesn't care which way the current flows through it. A diode does, so if it is a relay with a diode, it has to be ensured that the +12V that activates the switching coil is connected to 86 (and 85 to earth / battery minus). The reason for damping the voltage peak is to protect any sensitive electronics that might be controlling the activating current, so not really an issue when the activating current is being controlled by a mechanical switch.

Those photos don't do the fairing justice. Too wide-angle. There are better pictures on the Magni site: http://www.magni.it/v11_fairing.htm I think the fairing looks rather good.

A couple of questions have cropped up: I gather "mini" and "micro" relays use the same socket form. Can anyone confirm that (to save me studying numerous diagramms...)? I notice that some relays have a resistor parallel to the switching coil, and some a diode. Das anyone know what that is good for?

Indeed they can. I've got an MXS 3.8 and an MXS 5.0 from this mob. https://www.ctek.com/de/batterieladegerat-12v-24v/fahrzeugtyp/motorrad/motorradladegerät No fluffing around, just connect it to the battery and wait until all the lights are on. If the bike is going to stand around for a while (weeks, months...) just leave it connected.

I got a message over a German forum recommending a Hella relay, with the comment that one thing that makes it suitable is the "Bauhöhe", i.e. how high the thing physically is. The Hella is apparently relatively low-profile. I wont post the specific model until I have had a look at a few spec sheets to see how it compares. Having said that, the bloke that the information came form is definitely well informed, and an experienced professional Guzzi Mechanic. He also commented that the relays are "Verschleissteile", i.e. things that wear out during normal usage, and should be renewed as a matter of course every few years.

and somehow, the older one gets, the shorter the weeks get.

Thanks for that. What I also found, which explains the apparently random numbers on the contacts of the relays, is that that they are defined in a DIN Norm (Deutsche Industrienorm = German industry standard). Here is a listing: http://www.elektron-bbs.de/verkehr/klemmen.htm and a Wiki article: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klemmenbezeichnung#Liste_der_Klemmenbezeichnungen_in_Kfz_und_ihrer_Bedeutung no, wait, I found it in English! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DIN_72552

Nice article, but everyone knows that a Guzzi is better than a Honda, don't they?