Lex
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Posts posted by Lex
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gthyni,
Try Kroon Import. The 46HRCS is 760 Euros. I sure wish Kroon could sell in the US. The US importer is a rip-off.
Cheers,
Lex
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I was thinking of creating side panels ala V7Sport to hide the ECU, PCIII, winker relay, and cannisters, but I'd like to hear your solution.
I'll bet there is wasted space in the lower frame that could hold a cannister
Dlaing, I'm still a hypocrite; I'm a gasoline addict and I can't help myself. Last week I drove over 250 miles to participate in the "eco friendly" activity of SCUBA diving and my bikes all have this handling problem that leads me to take long, twisty roads when I could use much less gas by staying on the freeway.
Seriously, I just made a U shaped bracket that fits inside the mount for the mid-pipe. I then glued some old push bike inner-tube to the bracket to give a little vibration protection, used two hose clamps to attach one canister to the bracket and bought some hose at the local auto parts store to "plumb" the canister into the bike. I will swap the other canister in as I get miles on the bike, I would guess the charcoal only has a limited ability to absorb gas fumes. Note that the hoses run very close to the pipes, I did a bit of thinking to route then as far from the pipes as I could, so far no sighs of heat related problems. Note in the semi-helpful picture below you can see the cable tie I used to secure the vent hose wasn't so lucky. After I did this I found the later bikes have a differently shaped (fits the space much better) canister located in the same place, it may be this is the best place to put it/ them.
Al has a good write up on the TOV in his FAQ section. I don't think there is a picture but I think he did what I did and tied the valve to the back end of the sub-frame that forms the front engine mount with cable ties. I think what happens is that the valve gets tilted when you put the tank on, if it tilts to the right (all right/ left statements from the rider's POV), no problem. If it tilts to the left that puts it at a pretty large angle when the bike is on the side-stand so the valve closes. This crappy valve will then stay closed so as you use fuel you get the infamous tank-suck and if you are having a really bad day you get enough to damage the paint like poor Russ and few others. Once the valve is tied to the frame it seems (so far, cross your fingers, toes, etc.) to put a band-aid over the problem. Note I needed a longer piece of hose to connect the tank with the TOV after I tied the TOV to the frame.
Cheers,
Lex
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Your rant about comparing pollution is unfounded as if you keep the bike tuned properly, you pollute much less than the SUV's that pollute our highways with a single occupant; or maybe you haven't been looking at the drivers around you lately.
Russ,
If you are talking about the giant SUVs (and trucks) that are exempt from the smog regulation you are absolutely correct. The fact that these vehicles are exempt from the emissions standards is a travesty. However, every other car and light truck only produces a small fraction of what a motorcycle, even one meeting the California standards, produces. The car/ light truck standards are several times tighter than the motorcycle standards. Per mile motorcycles pollute much more than cars. Taking off the charcoal canisters just increases an already poor situation.
I put my canisters back on when I noticed that I could smell gas in my garage after removing them. The smell was very faint (remember, California gas stinks even more than normal gas because of the f%^&ing MTBE in it) but I noticed it on several occasions. Multiply that by the number of modified bikes and cars in my area and it is a significant source of pollution. I watched the air in the two areas where I have lived go from pretty clean to scary over the last forty years. I can report a noticeable improvement to my health from getting away from the smog. This is even more true of kids, no one can show direct cause-effect relationship but the huge increases in allergies and asthma is children is most likely caused by the crap in the air they breath. I'm more than will to carry 2 or 3 extra pounds on my bike to slow (at least) that happening to the beautiful, clean air where I live now. I love riding my bikes more than almost any other activity, I can't eliminate the pollution this causes but I try to minimizes it.
On the technical side, I would be very surprised if the canisters caused your "tank suck" (what you are calling vapor lock). You have to grossly over fill the tank or fill the tank to the very top then park the bike to put enough gas into the canister to cause that problem. From you past posts I'm pretty sure you are too bright to do that. I'd say it is much more likely your were a victim of the truly crappy tip over valve (TOV) that Moto Guzzi put on our bikes. The TOV is generally removed or fixed to the frame when the canisters are removed fixing this very serious problem. I've also had tank suck, I had it when I had the canisters removed. In fact, my TOV was still causing the problem with the tank removed from the bike! I was pretty close to freaking out when I pulled the vent hose/ TOV and my tank grew before my eyes. I have seen no evidence of tank suck since I affixed the TOV to my frame.
In short, if you are talking about removing/ fixing/ replacing the tip-over-valve, I 100% with you. OTOH, if you are talking about removing the canisters we'll just have to disagree.
Cheers,
Lex
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The charcoal canisters have nothing to do with vapor lock and I doubt they have anything to do with overflow problems. Every bike on US roads (and most of the rest of the world) has the same systems (Guzzi's part are built by Nippon Denso, just like pretty much everybody else's) and other bikes do not have these problems.
Vapor lock should have been eliminated when the fuel pump was moved inside the tank. As far as overflow problem I'm not familiar with them but since the normal solution for running without the canisters is to run an open hose to the bottom of the bike I'd have trouble calling dumping extremely combustible fumes next to your hot pipes an improvement.
All the canisters do (post 2001 when they took up the tool kit space) is cut the amount your bike contributes to dirty air (specifically unburned hydrocarbons) and add a few pounds. Most of us could take off more weight by skipping the second (or third) helping at our meals. Taking off the charcoal canisters is pretty much the same thing as stopping for lunch and throwing your trash on the ground, the only difference is the pollution from the canisters is invisible. One bike doesn't make that much pollution, one piece of trash isn't a problem but most of us live in areas with hundreds of thousands or even millions of people and our "trash" accumulates.
Sorry, but I'm getting tired of hearing the "dump the canisters" advice repeated with no dissenting opinions. I spent a fair amount of time and work relocating the canisters on my 2001 V11 from the tool kit area. My bike runs very well and has no problems with vapor lock or fuelover flow even in temperatures over 100 F.
Lex
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Rich,
I can give you a very firm I don't know as to the material used to make the gas tank. Based on the Identify plastic table at USC it could be ABS, it could be a Nylon blend or it could be a couple of others. I partly pulled my tank but couldn't find the symbol (normally a triangle with a number or letters like PPO) that identify the material. The symbol must be under the insulating material, I checked all of the tank not covered in insulator and under the gas cap/ chin pad, no luck. Anybody have a tank apart they can check?
Lex
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Here are the bike rental sites I have found. You comments (if you have used them) or sites for other rental companies appreciated.
Biancoblu rents BMWs and Honda scooters in Milano. In Italian, English and German
Eaglerider rents Harleys all over the US. Several languages
Knopftours rents BMWs from Frankfort. In German, English, French and Spanish.
Moto4rent rents trail bikes, customs, scooters, etc. No touring or sport bikes. Based in Gran Canaria, Spain. In Spanish, English and German.
Mototouring This link seem to be stale, if it doesn't work try below. Has several locations in Italy. In Italian or English
Mototouring Rents several types of bikes. It looks like the Moro Guzzis are gone but a few other options. This is the site in English, I've had a problem with the link above. Has several locations in Italy. In Italian or English
This site Moto-directory.com has a great list of rental places and much more.
Cheers,
Lex
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Given the overwhelming response (none so far
) here are the few road sites I have found. Please add yours to the list. If it is not in English just let us know what language it is for the mono-lingual (i.e. Americans 
) on the list.Wild Guzzi's US road site, the best and the worst in the USA.
It looks like pashnit is back up. California roads and other interesting things.
For the very local, Santa Barbara County (US, just above LA) SBC rides
Another US site: Places 2 ride.com. Lots of good information and links to other good sites.
Yet another US site: Sport Bike Registry.
There must be sites for Europe, Oz and other places but I haven't been able to find them. Send 'em in and I'll add them.
Cheers,
Lex
Last update: August 08, 2003
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Mr. Big,
The tank is, I think, ABS. I'd try these guys Urethane Supply Company. The PlastiFix product worked very well on my ABS side covers and front fender. When the repairs were done I honestly could not tell the new material from the original stuff. I've worked with fiberglass a bit and I very much doubt I could have made as effective a repair with 'glass and I can say for sure PlastiFix was much faster, easier to do and much easier to clean up. JMHO.
Good luck on the fix,
Lex
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Januza,
I really glad to here you got your bike right. It is a lot of work but it is worth it in the end. These bikes will never be GSXRs but my bike now (I took the easy way out and had LE do the spring/ re-valve) handles better than I can ride it so I'm happy. The bonus most people don't get is that I'll bet your bike also rides better with the stiffer springs. Even in Beautiful BC you have to ride boring roads occasionally.
I make no claim to be in the same universe with Mr. Cameron as far as bike knowledge but the way you explained it sounds like what the people who I learned from told me to set-up a bike. People who want to know more could buy the magazine or buy the book "Sportbike Performance Handbook", also by Kevin Cameron, for even more information about setting up the whole bike. I got mine from White Horse Press
Enjoy the new legs,
Lex
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Al,
Good point. I'll start looking around for road web sites, if anybody has any suggestions please send them to me (on or off list) so I can put them together.
If we find anything not covered we can look into adding our own.
Make sense?
Cheers,
Lex
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dlaing,
I'd suggest going with your second idea. A few words (e.i. "very tight, twisty and bumpy with lots of elevation change" Vs. "fast, flowing and smooth") tells you more than a large number of fill-in-the-blanks.
How about:
Road name and location
First member's comment (limit 100 words)
Second member's comment (limit 100 words)
etc.
We might have suggestion for content (condition of road surface, animals, location of gas/ food/ hotels/ campgrounds, level of traffic and police patrolling* and ??) but let the members decide what to say.
FWIW, I'd suggest we limit roads here to outside the US with a link to the Wild Guzzi site, no point in duplicating the information.
I also agree with Carl's comment, any ideas how we can do this so the information is presented anonymously? I don't think we want this to become a bragging site but it would be nice to not add to the police's case.
Cheers,
Lex
*Favorite comment in this area: I asked a local about patrolling on a road in New Zealand, she replied "The MOT comes by on Thursdays", it was Tuesday.
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All,
My wife and I are talking about a trip to Europe in the next few years, I'd love to see the MG factory, catch a WSB and/ or a GP, see some of the sites and meet the locals.
My point, assuming I have one, is that if you would be so kind as to tell us about your trip after you get back I think it would be a great start to a section of this board, Yanks in Europe/ Italy. Things like "We found a great hotel close to the factory/ this race track/ that famous site/ etc." or "You could take the autostrada from a point A to point B but if you have time try these back roads" would be great.
Orson's post is a great example, I've spent enough time in Northern Europe/ England (always on business, unfortunately) to have a fair idea of how to get around up there but I've never had the pleasure of visiting the South so the long lunch, rules of the road advice, etc. is very valuable to me. More on the MC rental companies would be great, besides the one Orson mentioned I found a directory (http://www.moto-directory.com/touring/rental_foreign.htm) but comments from customers (was bike in good shape, type of bikes available, how a problem was handled, etc.) would be useful. As an example of what I am talking about, my wife and I rented a pair of BMWs from Te Waipounamu in New Zealand years ago and really enjoyed the experience but I would warn non-mechanical types that the bikes were a little rough. New Zealand is a little like how I picture Italy, "Don't worry, she'll be right mate" often translates as "Stop worrying about every little thing you up-tight American twit".
It would be great to have a place to have this type of information archived.If it would be valuable we in the US and the folks who have visited here could also have a place to put comments about the USA for our European friends. Given the current USD/ Euro exchange rate I think the US may be a travel bargain right now.
Sound like a good idea? I know Jaap is already putting in too much time on this site, if I could help I'd be willing to be an administrator.
Lex
PS. Dave, FWIW, my one trip to Paris was great. It may not be the Alps on a motorcycle but it is an incredible place. I have a memory of sitting under one of the bridges on the Seine waiting out a light drizzle listening to a street musician playing French jazz while looking at Notre Dame that will stay with me for a long time. Contrary to what I had been told, most of the people were reasonably friendly, even (shock!) the waiters.
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Can I add hallelujah to people figuring out you get the springs right then you work on the damping? I've been trying to get that across to people since I have been on the board. If the springs are wrong you can twiddle with adjusters, change shims, add or remove preload and anything else you can think of and it will not fix the problem. Springs hold the bike up, dampers just slow the rate the springs compress and extend.
Thanks baldini and Murray
,Lex
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If it helps at all my bike went on the reserve light at 150 miles today (about normal, 35 MPG) and was still running fine at 175 miles when I got gas. I understand the bike has at least 4 liters (over a gallon) of useful gas left plus Al's favorite 1/2 gallon over on the right side and not available to the engine.
I have the PCIII and Stucchi X-pipe, otherwise stock.
Lex
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Bob,
That is an error in the manual. The 22 Ft/Lb is for the disk carrier bolt, not the axel. If you look at the drawing of the front wheel you can see they just used the disk mount bolt setting when they made the rear wheel drawing.
If you look at the torque setting page you will find the rear axel is listed as something like 130 N/M, that is about 90 Ft/Lbs. Some folks have suggested that 90 Ft/Lbs is too much, I don't know about that, but I would strongly suggest you use more that 22 Ft/Lbs.
FWIW, the torque setting SHOULDN'T (remember, this is a Guzzi so normal laws of time, space and physics don't always apply) affect the rear wheel bearings, the force should pass through the center of the bearings and the spacer inside the wheel.
Cheers,
Lex
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Based on a problem much like what dkgross reported but not as severe (I got home) I added a spring to push the brake push rod away from the master cylinder piston. I had the rear wheel of my brand new RD 400 Yamaha lock up at about 40 MPH from this type of problem, I really do not want to experience that again.
To make the spring work I had to add a tube that runs down the brake push rod from the master cylinder to just below the rubber boot. I put washers on each end (chrome on the bottom to match the push rod) to be sure nothing slipped. The total cost was a 1.49 USD, that seems like a pretty cheap fix. I'm not sure if this will pass muster for the more astatically sensitive types but I think it looks find. See attached picture.
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So this started with snobs and now we are to who would be who's bitch in jail? This group may be (OK, probably is) crazy but snobbish doesn't seem even close.
For the 'Mericans on the list, happy 4th of July. To the Brits, naner, naner.
To the rest of you, have a good weekend.Lex
PS. I just put a Stucchi X pipe on my V11. Add me to the fans of this device. Too bad it can't fix soft valves.
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Al,
Most dynos used now are Dynojets. They do not measure HP, they infer it by the rate the bike accelerates a heavy drum. They are well known for being inconsistent from unit one to another and are often optimistic. I wouldn't worry to much about the numbers in and of themselves, look at the delta. For example one dyno I spent some time around would often show a stock small valve/ carb BMW 1000 CC airhead making over 60 HP, the truth is closer to 50 HP. But if a modification moved the power up from, lets say, 60 to 63 HP you knew you had a 5% gain even if the bike was really only making in the mid fifties in "real" power.
People who want/ need more exact power numbers use a brake dyno like the ones made by Superflow. They also often use an engine dyno (not a rear wheel dyno) to cut down the number of variables from test to test.
Cheers,
Lex
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Just to agree with a lot of the previous posts, you may get some relief by adding spring preload.
A better long term solution is (assuming you a red blooded American, i.e. you weigh more than 150 pounds.
) is stiffer springs front and rear. The stock Guzzi springs are pretty soft. If you have stiffer springs and you are still dragging stuff you need a road-racing license or at least a track day. You are pushing things pretty hard on the street. (JMHO)
Cheers,
Lex
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My owners manual says the heads should be re-torqued at 1000 miles and every 18K miles after that.
I have to ask Murray why this is so upsetting to him. It is easy to do and doesn't take much time. If you are paying someone to perform the work I would think a good Guzzi mechanic would add well under an hour to your bill if this is combined with a valve adjustment. Even if 99 out of 100 or even 999 out of a 1000 engines work fine without following the recommended procedure what do you gain by not following the manual? Maybe it's just me, I also use UFI oil filters. Both seem like cheap insurance but that is just my POV.
If you read Guzziology Dave Richardson recommends this procedure, I got the basic outline of the task from Australian Guzzi guru Pete Roper. FWIW, I was also told by some "experts" that the procedure was not necessary. When I checked I found the manual, Pete, Dave and some others said it was a good idea. One the other side I found some Guzzi mechanics who said it was a waste of time. In my mind that constituted a pretty strong vote in favor of setting the torque as described by the manual, no one claimed it hurt anything and some pretty well respected people (and the factory) said it was worth the time. I'll add that the near total lack of QC from the factory (at least when my bike was made) has caused me to check pretty much everything I can get to on the bike.
JMHO,
Lex
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dlaing,
I use the "inner inner fender" with the stock inner fender. That is why I didn't worry too much about looks, it is pretty much invisible with the original equipment fender in place. You have to know the V11 pretty well to spot it, the only change is that the triangular opening in the front of the inner fender now shows a small part of the "wings" instead of the tire. Given that it is a satin black piece of fiberglass inside a satin black piece of plastic in a part of the bike partly covered by the seat and side cover only some one looking for it would notice. If you followed Al's lead and used ABS it would be even harder to see, the texture of the ABS should match the OEM inner fender.
Cheers,
Lex
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gavin,
For more detail, check the link to my page on adjusting the valves and setting the head bolt torque on the FAQ page.
Cheers,
Lex
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I started with something like Al's mod but found water/ dirt etc. was still getting past so my inner piece grew "wings". Still nearly invisible but very effective. I feel confident enough to not modify the trans breather.
Lex
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FWIW, my PCIII is mounted exactly like Brent's. Anybody know why MG even bothers with the tool try?
Lex
Advice from my Mechanic
in Technical Topics
Posted
Cap,
I would highly recommend stiffer fork springs. I'm willing to bet that most of the members of this list are tired of hearing me say the same thing but I'm going to say it again. Getting the spring rate right is the first priority, once the springs are right you can look into damping. The springs MG put in our forks seems to be for a very light (lets say 125 to 140 pound) rider. I have been told they are 0.6 kg/ cm, very soft. As far as the oil (thicker or thinner) I'll accept what others have said, look into thinner oil. I had my suspension re-valved, the stock setting are so far off I couldn't see any point in working with the stock set-up. In other words, I'd put good springs in and go from there. Just keep in mind that there is more to testing than oil weight, play with the amount (level) of the oil as well. More oil gives you a stiffer "air spring" near full compression, less oil will have the opposite effect. Also, your forks have compression and rebound damping in separate legs, you can, for example, stiffen compression but not rebound by using thicker oil on the left leg. Finally, keep in mind that the adjusters on your forks (and shock) only adjust the damping up to a point, as the force trying to move the fork increases the damping holes controlled by the adjusters are overwhelmed and the "washer stack" controls damping. At this point you have to change the oil or the "stack" to make changes.
For average sized people the most common spring seems to be 0.9 kg/ cm springs, the 0.95 spring your mechanic recommends is pretty close. However, I would question using OEM Yamaha springs. In general stock springs (unless the bike is equipped with very high-end suspension like WP or Ohlins) are, to be blunt, crap. They are made of poor quality metal and sack (permanently compress) relatively quickly. I think you would be much happier with aftermarket springs, e.g. Eibach. As a rule of thumb, if you need more than ~20 mm (3/4") of pre-load in your forks to get the ride height set the spring is too soft.
As to the rear, I would be a bit worried about an "expert" who gave you the softer shock spring advice. I'd very strongly agree with the people saying this is the wrong way to go. The rear end feels stiff because the soft springs compress and you only have a short amount of travel before you get to the bump stops. If you make any changes to the rear I'd strongly suggest stiffer, not softer. As a basic rule of thumb, if you need more than about 10 mm (~3/8") of pre-load to get the correct ride high your spring is too soft. I have a much stiffer than stock rear spring, my bike rides very well in tour mode and keeps the rear tire on the ground and working during aggressive riding in the bumpy stuff.
If you want to do suspension work I'd suggest finding a local shop that the racers in your area use. Moto International is a good shop but the advice (at least the suspension advice, I don't know about the air cleaners) you have been given is pretty questionable. If you can't find a good local shop try Race Tech or LE. Just be sure they understand how you use the bike and don't over estimate your riding skill/ style, a race track set-up will be crap on the street.
I had LE re-spring and valve my bike and am very happy with the results. Other have suggested Guzzi Tech for more info, I'd specifically suggest Ed Milich's article from 9.04.01. FWIW, others have felt the need to go to go very high end, i.e. Ohlins, on their V11s. I am very happy with my modified forks and shock. I may look at a better rear shock one day but I can't see enough improvement potential in my forks to think about that but, as they say, YMMV.
Cheers,
Lex