Greg Field

All that, and you're back to where you began: A bike with no running problems. I congratulate you on your persistence.

Don't forget to anal-ize the options for the perfect buffer gas to fill the gap. There are untold gains to be found there, and surely another 47 pages . . .

Show us a yak nipple.

I picked up about 3 mpg. That was the problem I solved. (It's liberating to admit that you have a problem.) The goal was to get the sensor to full temp quickly, through good thermal contact with the sensor tip and then to keep the heat in so it stays lean and uses less fuel. The stock plastic thingie could serve just fine, with either draw-filing for good contact or with goo. Mine broke, so I replaced it with the brass one. Then I used the tape to make the brass one act less like a heat sink. Works great. Has for many folks. But only if everything else is up to snuff. Only if.

What is most apparent in all this is that you keep changing your mind on whether you're chasing a problem or not. I cannot help you with that. At first you were. Then, suddenly, claim that you weren't. Then, suddenly, not one but two problems. Then none again. Edit all your posts so they regain some sense. Or leave them as a monument to the glories of colon self-exam . . .

Yes. Hadn't considered that angle.

So, now, once again, there was a problem that you were trying to correct? I thought you said I had dreamed that up? And not just one, but two? And I see you have conceded the point on your accusation. Good lord. It's like speaking to a politician.

You are correct that I have no experience trying to bodge a manual choke onto my or any other V11 Sport. I never had to. I got dozens, perhaps hundreds of them running perfectly without need for such nonsense. I do not believe you went to all this work for no reason, as you hinted at in the posts I quoted. You mistake your exception for the norm. There is something else wrong with your bike. I wish you luck in finding it.

Good lord. I skipped nothing of the kind in those quotes. Prove that I did, since you've made the accusation. What you're saying was there wasn't there. My read on this is far more accurate than you will allow yourself to see. You would be highly successful in PR work, I suspect. As for the sensor, I have tons of experience with it. I did the work more than a year ahead of when this thread started. That puts me about three years on in experience over you. I've worked on them on dozens of machines. That puts me dozens minus one experienced over you. Carry on, though. By 90 pages, you'll've come full circle again, or will have gone back and edited all your posts.

For purposes of BQ, a post is not a post. I think you'll find most of mine are under 4 lines in length. I think you'll find most of Ratch's are over 20 lines in length. Possibly even over 40 lines. Brevity is antithetical to bloviation. Here's the third line in this post: Yes! Post 666. Who was more deserving than I?

I submit the following, Commendatore: From Post 30, before you even tried thermo goup or the brass holder: “I've started to focus on this because I think I've got some symptoms of less than accurate sensor operation, per this thread and many previous posts on this. "Seems to me the brass holder solves the problem of the broken stock holder, but without something between the thermistor and the base of the recess in the holder, the key operating principle of faulty temp pickup will be the same with both the plastic and brass holder. “ Then, from post 116, wherein you try lead and the brass holder: “Having finally got a ROUND TUIT, I just installed the brass holder and futzed with it, and I'm in agreement with Tony.^ "Instead of thermal paste, I used a custom-formed cylinder of lead drifted into the holder. By my measure with a dial depth gauge, the distance between the tip of the sensor and the bottom of the holder cavity ain't a tiny thing, and it's clearly very much intentional. The gap is .25". I cut and finished the lead cylinder to about .26" in length. The lead was soft enough so seating the sensor pushed into the lead ~.01", ensuring very complete, direct thermal flow. As it turned out, this wasn't a good thing. "The results were abominable. It wouldn't idle when fully warm, missing and coughing at low RPM and off-idle transitions in traffic something fierce. Clearly, the sensor is working fine, but the ECU is now putting the FI pulsewidth in lean mode when it needs to be in rich mode, which leads me to Tony's conclusion above. Though it ran fine at normal operating RPMs at speed, it was just about unrideable in town. So back in went the OE plastic holder with no thermal goop a-tall, and the formerly good as ever in town and in traffic behavior (as well as at speed) returned instantly.” Then, post 125: "With a .2" air gap in the brass holder, the symptoms are again much the same. Again, the symptoms are: ". . .abominable. It wouldn't idle when fully warm, missing and coughing at low RPM and off-idle transitions in traffic something fierce. . . .it ran fine at normal operating RPMs at speed, [and] was just about unrideable in town." Then, post 149: "I've road tested all combinations with the brass holder that I'm going to try without doing a re-map first. Filled solid with lead, with 2 mm air gap, 4 mm air gap, and no lead (6+ mm air gap). All had the same unacceptable hot running symptoms (noted above), none tolerable. "There IS an OE air gap between the plastic holder and sensor, at least in my case. I get ~.015" by gauging the thickness of the zinc-based silicone heat sink compound left on the sensor tip after testing. The symptoms on the road with the thermo compound after warm-up were every bit as unacceptable as with the brass sensor. "I've begun to road test the plastic holder with significantly larger air gaps (no thermo-goop) by shimming up the sensor with washers. "To date: "With a small-diameter washer providing a ~.075" air gap: Same as fully seated OE config. This is certainly acceptable, and a far cry from the brass holder. With ~.075" air gap using large, 1.5" OD fender washer bored to fit the sensor, acting as additional thermal finning: BEST YET, with limited testing time to date at full operating temp." This is in the first 10 pages. I'm not going to re-live the next 35 for anything. After the "abominable results," you continued one with your quest to simulate the manual choke, effusively carrying on about the improvements with each iteration and on several occasions about improved gas mileage. I didn't dream this. Truth is always stranger than dreams . . .

Apparently, we speak different languages, Commendatore Ratchethack. You did claim a problem. You speculated on the cause of said problem. You mucked about toward counteracting that "cause" by tricking the efi to add more fuel. You claimed improvement. Further, you claimed improved fuel mileage after adding more fuel. Then you mucked about some more and claimed further improvement. Some disclaimer from 38 pages ago does not alter that reality. Who else came away with a similar summation after 44 pages?

I've sold probably several hundred of those sensor holders. I've put them on dozens of bikes. None of my "victims" has yet reported to me that they've discovered the enormity of the horrible crime I've perpetrated on them. Hell, I haven't even discovered the crime I've perpetrated on my dear old CoppaLabia. It refuses to run poorly despite my ruinous sabotages and even mocks my evil intentions by getting better gas mileage. And it's been mocking me thusly for nearly 3 years now, with nary a hickup, even in the SoCal heat last summer. I otter burn the thing to the ground . . . Carry on, though. 44 pages is clearly not enough. Eventually, you will find the real problem. A cheap start would be to run some Redline Fuel Injection cleaner through it. I'd also look at your valves and guides. In the amount of time you've spent on bodging the sensor and writing about it, you could've rebuilt and ported the heads and had the jectors ultrasonically cleaned.

Technical fillibuster. Yes. I like that. 44 pages. Outstanding BQ, too!

Yes, diamond. Perfection will require that the sensor holder be carved from the Hope diamond.

Mirrors from the SPort 1200 work pretty well.

Dave: That's clearly a photoshop job 'cause Harley never fitted whitewalls along with square rims.

You would be entirely remiss if you did not also experiment with different gasses at the different gaps until the transfer rate matches the mapping of your bike perfectly and compensates for the (probably) worn valve guides. Or perhaps the whole system was really designed to work with the atomsphere from another planet? Or perhaps with the air density at a certain altitude? Don't think the Italians wouldn't pull such a stunt just to personally confound you, personally Commendatore Ratchethack.

We had a customer covert to running 100 percent ethanol. His tank is fine, nearly 2 years later. No bubles. If ethanol were causing this, you'd think he'd have the problem.

Onward toward 90.

Perhaps the tree you should be barking at passes through your valve guides?

Plastics are not laminated. Therefore, delamination is not possible. THere may have been flaws or voids in the casting that now manifest as raised dimples.

David: Guzzi has sensor holders in stock.

Do not give up, I beg you. Convince us all we need a manual choke on our EFI bikes . . .