Alex-Corsa

Have you checked my 1st answer?

My comment on that is that it comes from the mapping,I believe ,assuming the sensor works properly, it is reading, the correct temps,BUT apparently Guzzi uses lot of engine compestation percentages in lower temps -that sometimes are not so low for the engine to work with a correct leaner mixture- and as a result that "rich" behaviour. What do you think Pete?

All I can "smell" from what you are saying and form so far away is that perhaps your injector throtle bodies-are not synchronised , perhaps would be a nice idea to check it out. Snchronising the TB\s correctly (not only the vacum ) but as well as the TPS voltage will lead to a perfect running bike. Better TB synchron is with rocker clearences set. I hope you have not messed this big white head screw under your left TB while you were cleaning the bike , did you? How about your fuel consumption, and what do your spark plugs say? I bet the one is darker than the other As about being a bit rich in start up I agree with Pete 100% longer rides with stabilized higher engine temps will have your motor running at the fuel mixture that is more to the "normal standard"

A simple rule of the thumb if you are in a budget and without having to (or want to)change fuel mapings (at least on open loop ECU guzzis) , ect.ect. and it works , is : either 'open' crossover and normal exhaust , or the stock crossover and open exausts. You can add a K&N type of filter but removing the cup over is more hype , than performance. If you change all it would be better to do some mapping,mostly for taking advantage of what you have and AFAIK (though i #m not an expert on this)) the engine won't be in trouble without mapping, that would happen in a open loop ECU bike, like mine that I had to replace my chip after.. Your ECU is working closed loop , and it is self adjusting the new data cause of the setup(air mostly) to perform the same lean or rich fuel map to the injectors as it was programmed to do, take a hint here Closed Loop Operation Example from Cliff's site (also a valuable member here) who has succesfully developed a new adjustable ECU unit for replacing Marelli.Perhaps he can accurately explain all these necessities about this subject to you and correct me as well if I'm out of the subject. If you are really in a budget get the X-over and the K&N filter ,some more midrange tourgue will be more usefull as well. If you opt for the sounds then an open exhaust is the choice Personally I find the sound and the looks of the Mistrals very atractive, besides they are made in Mandello from people who worked to Lanfranconi for years, Agostini sell them as well. .,The titanium exausts the company issued ia also an option but these are too pricey. Then there are the Quat D exausts , system without back end pipes that mounts a big box where the crossover is , but to my that sounds a bit Harleyish Termignonis is another solution as a performance exhaust and there is a set for sale in ebay (if not already gone) full set front pipes+crossover+Carbon pipes at set at a bargain starting price 400GBP (of cource new) There are of cource many other exhausts people use, searching at the forum will give you many results. Get parts that are designed for your bike to therefore have your mind at ease, believe me it will cost you less in the long process

Well, reving to over 5000 , 6000 7000 up to 8000 on a Guzzi air cooled engine the engine oil temprature declines rapidly (over these high speeds-RPM) -therefore different fuell maping-until it reaches ,after 1 min or so a steady operational temp, assuming the bike still runs at about same high speeds, of cource to that we have to concider also the more amount of air that will come through the air intakes to the airbox+ some air drag to the load. (in every vehicle different)..Neddles to say that temp can change again after i.e. 20-30 minutes on lets say 6000rpm The WBo2 sensor+controler,I have it doesn.t show me a % of CO at my instrument, but a calculated Pounds of air/liter of fuel is damn acurate , I can also see it in the spark plugs .. Now if you have measured which are these tempratures (engie- air) and the airflow and can simulate them .. .. Wrong question,,..correct is: how do you simulate this real life WIND-airflow at 100- 130+mp/h on a dyno on a Guzzi ?(also at different enviroment temps , i.e.0Deg C', 5deg C' 10 or 15) and how do you know that these are in real life as well Perhaps you'll need one of these: So perhaps Dyno is a nice instrument to tunne many areas with some accuracy (though costy) but for fine adjustments one has to be based on real life conditions measurments, in order to find out what is missing. And generaly in the todays world of tuning AFR instrumet- systems in the class INNOVATE and alike ,are widely accepted as the edge assist in monitoring the engine fuel burn accuratelly http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/resources/pedigo.php http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/resourc...ase-studies.php http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/resources/efi-central.php ect.ect. For me these cruicial 'real life conditions'measurments are just a ride and the cows are coming home. Correct, and that '' IF you tune the right spots'' I am talking about here, how you get to these points to correctly tune them as intended. So there you have it, in a 'simple' injection map like on mine there are 16 rows that represent TB opening degrees (adjustable) and to each of the row another 16rows of RPM (also adjustable points- I have to correct my self than what said before with 18x16 or so) I think most of them positions are going to be used in different throtle openings so from the 256 total combinations that can be adjusted lets say minimum 70% is usefull that's about 180 adjustable points. So , you have tried-tested the Innovate system and found it totally misleading and wrong in it's measurments. Perhaps then someone has to take these guys who produce it into court for selling bul$$$t. ... I don't think so.! So the point of engine cooling on high speeds has , as well as air flow to the air filter has to be taken into concideration, And BTW how do you emulate 130+mp/h air flow on a simple dynorun? Now how's that , if it is for a couple of PS who cares, Isn't even worth writing these lines.. these guys over here http://www.awe-tuning.com/pages/faq/awefaq_main.cfm?FAQ=22 were talking about 15% difference in HP, so you don't seem to agree on that. The 12.6-8 I talked before is AFR =kg of air/liter fuel nothing to do with CO reading , Why not use the dyno shop's wideband to tune the AFR and then just forget it ? Why not tune AFR based upon EGT (Exhaust Gas Temperature)? Don't know about other but my INNOVATE system reads same either with lights on of of or whatever. I suggest you to buy one of these it will help with the dyno readings. The AFR value for best HP is considered by many different, opinions vary from 12.2 to 12.8,perhaps it varies a bit depending th engine ,but more or less that's what it is. Since I have these values at my insrument in the times and the situations I programm the ECU to be , sure thing is the engine is in the area is producing it's best or around that. Now if there is 1 or 2 HP more or less who cares , they are useless anyways. I suggest you can read this. That thing with the delay must be (is) just a joke by todays technology standards. My ECU is open loop. . As about any other point of INNOVATE WBO2 accuracy, every time I have changed a injection or spark value to a given throtle position(s) (even very little) the difference was indicated (as expected) at my INNOVATE AFR instrument even in one second acceleration that was using this point (s)of the map.EVERY TIME, and I know that cause I've been measuring till the cows came home.

I use the originals only , so I can't sugest any aftermarket,well ,actully I don't know if there are any euivealents for other marques. .Is it so hard to find the originals.?

Awesome stuff , great material for some quiz as well.(for what wasn't posted)

Hey , if you have money to throw away, don't , you can give them to me, I'll find out what to do with them

Perhaps you should take it to a shop that does calibration on speedos, and have it checked.

In their own words oil1.zip I use the MOTUL V300 competition 15-50W full synthetic or the Rock oil 15-50WFull synthetic , just to have my mind at ease at any lower enviroment tempratures. Never add oil in the motor sump if it isn't the same brand and viscosity of what is inside it. If you don't know what it is then a fresh oil + oil filter change will do only good. In big emergency and when isn't possible to have the same oil then temporarily you can add 'simple' motor oil (NO synthetic or semi synthetic) will do no harm and it can help till the next sooner oil change.

If you mean the factory titanium pipes with the Eagle logo on them http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?...tanium&st=0 that came with the extra ECU then this is BIG bucks more than $1300 new. More about exausts here http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?...amp;hl=Titanium

As I said, the RPM, throttle position in degrees, ignition timing, Spark advance , Oil temprature,air temprature, battery V., Atm pressure, and a bunch of other parameters if I need are recordered in REAL time riding the bike directly from the OBD of the ECU to the VDSTS software on my PC. These are the measurments we are talking about, and to these measurments different throttle openings from the same rpm , represent different throttle position degree opening . i.e. a fast snap on the throtle- roll on on 3rd gear at , i.e 3000rpm to 4.200 rpm would have totally different opening in degrees of the ''butterflies'' of the TBs ( T.P. degrees) compared to a slower opening in all rpm in between , therefore different injection timing , soark, fuel, ect.ect. As well as the AFR from innovate is also as well logged in another log file. You can as well visit here : http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/index.html or here: http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/forums/index.php and tell them what you think. No we don't have a language problem SO here it is, and so it is in their own words , http://www.awe-tuning.com/pages/faq/awefaq_main.cfm?FAQ=22 Taken from the above page , also more about Dynos and how-what they measure Temperature: engine temp *greatly* affects power output. Dyno runs done during different levels of coolant, engine and oil temps will have drastically different results, with the cooler runs typically producing more power. Some engines, such as the forced induction vehicles, can lose up to 15% of total hp and torque as temps rise. Thus a colder run done after a particular mod will exaggerate gains, if any. Redirecting external cooling fan air can have tangible effects on data, especially when air is concentrated on intercoolers, open air filters, etc. The best dyno operators will use high velocity fans (not just high volume fans) directed at critical areas of the engine and drivetrain in order to mimic real world conditions as much as possible I have never imagined a more accurate system for AFR than the innovate LC-1 with XD-16 and the Bosch LSU4 Wideband sensor. The immediate responce on what my engine is doing is awesome.My engine runs healthier than ever because of their assit to the maps I do. Visit the below link and you will be able to see more infos about it http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/resourc...ning-videos.php and there is always the forum for more objections. Measuring at the exaust end is a great mistake, the data taken will be missleading especialy in catalitic vehicles. Visit here for more and watch the LM-1 instalation video with more infos about what I said. http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/resourc...ning-videos.php Now ,since the Dyno is just a simmulation of real time conditions (IF then again it is perfectlly tunned for that.)with the sertain lack of having true drag resistance and real life air cooling on the engine it isn' enough , perhaps good , but not enough for me. Definatelly one can get accurate measurments taken (in these sertain conditions the dyno works)while drinking a coffee. Personally I trust what I get, and my motor runs best when adjusted to the sertain AFR area I target , and I really don't give a damn about what's the HP it can turn out on a dyno , all I see is that it's pulling like a freight train at any time I want in all real life driving and these are the results that matter to me., and that Mandello mechanic who drove it also confirmed ''the most lively 1100i Sport I have driven.'' well, all these are enough for me.

All I have is these gearbox specs page, from the pictured V11 in manual , if that's OK for you GuzziGearbox_Specs.zip

Nope , that's not what it is ,As a term used in tests the meaning of t is the freedom-ability of the bike to achieve big lean angles and without having anything to touch the ground as well (such as center or side stand ) or whateverelse it may be.

And why's that?

Who told that one has to buy a bike for the charts, I just put it up here just for the shake that of what I said about that test (usefull or not) i didn't made it up my mind , the magazine did wrote. Now who cares about tests, that's another story. If I would buy a bike right now I would buy the one I have.

Nope that has nothing to do with any O2 sensor , These are measurments taken directly from the ECU OBD with the VDSTS diagnostic . And ohh I think I have to tell you that My bike never had or any kind of O2 controler , or kat, or whatever to interfere it's ECU. My ECU is OPEN loop . and NO sencor is controling anything(= free and easy). The WBO2 I have gets me readings I take the relative exta measurments with other setum and I calculate a new map to flash. Due to my additonal high IQ and mathematics score all work OK - Thank God i don't have 32x24 rows to fix.. I don't think they are talking about that here. I don't understand this, .Nevertheless I wanted to pinpoint the differet temps in real life and how these can be taken into concideration in tuning generally from a Load dyno- approach (of best power standard) as you do.(i.e. are they valuable , do they matter, are they looked upon? .,ect.ect.) I think we are talking the same thing, and my meaning from the begining was the same , that you can't be based on AFR to tune on a Dyno = Dyno+AFR don't match as, AFR+ Street. Now if there is another effective approach to the Dyno , so well be it, i don't look for a can of worms here I think I do it the hard way, but I asked you a different thing, if you have 'tickled' any of these stuff or measured differences in colder (yet acceptable to ride9 and hotter engine situations (and or whether)and if any action took part.

It would be usefull to say that , there are dynos and Dynos , and mechanics and Mechanics, and it's not wether is Dyno or street+AFR better, but the target-result on these from the tunner. Now , anyhing on the subject of temprature compestation?

Quote 1= Well....I hope not Quote2 = if you say so then you know about it. P.S. edit , I was refering to Inertial type of Dynos that don't measure load. O.K.? Quote 3= >> >> (just a bit more costy though compared to the street, but then again you can say you get an arithmetic ps measurment ) ...Sure, right. Quote 4= Perhaps air resistance-drag above 100mp/h (OK that's too small letters perhaps that play smal role ? ) Quote5= I say what I see on my diagnostic mesurments of the ECU data on the street. Can drop you a log file for the VDSTS (if you work with VDSTS-won't open any else) to see what I mean. 2, Yes that's what I mean , the 27C512 of IAW16M has 18 rows (TBs) in 16 different RPM points. If, i.e. it had 32 in 24 repsectively a more smooth approach could be taken. Quote 6 = No problem with hat, Guzzi isn't the kind of a bike that would result too much PS in any case,just want to have them on the stable. Quote 7= I have not been to much deep on that subject,though I rely on riding experience, what I get is relative to what I see on my WBO2 is and it shows in the spark plugs,in riding and in fuel ...(Ok , I won't start this...),nevertheless I practice the way of taking theory to action and vice versa, that's what I do-. but then again, what could one rely upon and take it from there,?(what is the ''arbiter''?) I would add though that, lots of relative in tunning people can agree with my approach here(concerning the AFR).For sure there can be different approaches to the same subject as well,. Quote=8 I do so, actually I don't trust things , until their value is proven, for that fact I first notice the effect and then look at the numbers if they match then I trust. Difference can be noticed easy ,by instaling other chips with their strange bahaviour and then ,switch on something (supposingly) better, if it is(without any readings) then it is, and the readings are then taken to concideration. Quote=9 As I said the temp reading is a hot issue,i.e. I found out that my engine temp going down 10-15 deg C' in a 24C day difference from riding wiht 30-40mp/h to 90-100mp/h plus where the engin temp. was from 80degC' to 66' C# (steady after advancing on speed.) Now the compestation values in the map (factory settings) between these oil tempratures is 65= -0,78% at 77=-3.13% and 89=-5.47%, I ask : a) where did the cooling came from? (O.K. the air blowing at the engine,) Does this amount air to speed exist on the Dyno? b] Is this compestation difference in the oil temp a bit too big? ....O.K. you got me here too, it depends the compestation of the air temp at that point.....and in genneral,but? is it then a bit big , won't it make a difference in the fuel burning and ect.ect.ect. of the bike? (measuring AFR there is a difference shown in the situations.) If I immediatelly stop the bike with this colder oil temp the reading would be different (more rich) in same slower riding as before 10 minutes or so-not much but some,more or less that sohs at the AFR instrument , c)sub-question would be is this AFR unreliable then? ). Anyways tell me your opinion in based on your methods and experience. And if you have 'messed' around with other Guzzis map temps It would be interesting to know your findings in the subject Cheers P.S. in closing even though it seems to be running details I don't knock the dyno thing , I just like and think the ''natural' approach as better (at least to me ), i.e. if it is for me to make a fittness program then I'd rather get out on the sport filed running than be closed on a Gym doing the ramp, .-.

If you talk about the 'Inspektionskosten' =Service costs then yes , If there is anything else I can translate,

OK , in just for he shake of it.In their own words. Don' ask to translate all,will take too much time , few bits can do though . TopSpeed M, gave a measurment of a whooping 293km/h Few things you might mind : Verbrauch is consumption, (here at country street riding) Kupplung is the clutch, Schaltung is about Gear change, Geradeaustabilität is Stability in riding straight (also at higher speeds I suppose) Schräglagefreiheit is the ability-freedom of the bike to lean big angles,Bremsstabilität is the stability of the brakes, Lenkerschlagen/shimy is about tank slappin (lower values means tankslapper).

The RSV 100R factory did. Each category has around 10 different sections upon which the bike gets it's score RSV scored in all of the higher than the other 3 AND furthermore, highest scores in over all supersports class (form all the supersport bikes around) were given in : Presicion in steering (at the chasis category), headlight and dipped headlight. (at the safety category). Theoritic miliage and weight load,( at the all day category.) Build quality and emissions (at the Costs-enviroment categ.) So , there you have it-

Have you measured the AFR (Air Fuel Ratio) between the different tweaks you did? Dynamometer can't measure load at any given speed and any gear .Therefore , i.e. other gear roll ons- than top gear -(from any rpm) can't show up in the dyno,from the tweaks. On the street is different because of the different TB degrees you have on different kind of accelerations.Fast opening or slower openings of the throttle are represented by different kind of maps due to different TB opening degrees even at same gear and same rpm. Now most of them are covered with each other (smal differences) cause my chip map is not so sophisticated to have i.e. 30 or more maps that represent different TB openings When I started my tunning I said O.K. I'll make different maps but at one I would have to have best power the motor can give,at any given RPM at an given gear, at any throttle opening. Because this is also the usable power , in all conditions and mostly at every day use. How can one know this? by measuring the AFR some say best power is achieved at 12.2 ,while others to 12.6-12.8(pounds of air to liter fuel). I can notice, the positive power difference of the bike at these values and I do accordingly.Flashing richer maps won't alone do the trick ,and the spark advance has to be also concidered for some fine tunning as well as the tempratures have to be concidered (that's a hot issue ) for having the optimum map with either colder or hotter engine or wheather.

Aha !!! so in the current issue of MOTORRAD, magazine there is a comparative test between RSV 1000R factory, the Benelli Tornado1130 the Ducati 999S and the MV Agusta F4, guess who wins the test and in every of the following categories? . MOTOR, Chasis, Safety,Everyday-allround,Komfort,Costs-Enviroment Can you guess? Next issue comes presentation of the 1200S

Judging from the pic , Ratchet , do you have a SOG multitool? I have the EOD Power lock , real hard dog and the Paratool ,both never let me down. Don't overdoit wih the oil , with the plate now the motor won't starve