Dan M

I think that means they wear harley condoms.

You are correct, it is a matter of opinion. I have just presented the facts from my experience and have not called anything scientific. I do think sensor being near the back of the head, under the gas tank is not really up in the breeze though, it is practially mounted in the worst spot on the head for air movement. The fact that the actual thermistor is exposed in one rather than being encased in brass, then paste, then more brass will allow it to respond to head temp faster. My approach works for me and yours for you. It may be proper to extrapolate from that if your bike has typical lean issues at hot temps, then the air temp sensor is the way to go; if it runs rich, the brass & goo is the way. I tried the paste first, had it that way all last season and my bike developed lean issues in hot weather, now that I've switched it runs great. One thing I know for sure, there is quite a wide variance in how these bikes fuel from the factory so no one fix covers all.

I'm thinking the sensor will lag way behind especially if it is in a brass holder packed with paste and the head is cooled with fast moving air as in actual use. The moving air against the fins will cool the aluminum much faster than the thermistor that is encased in brass and paste. The idea of using a plastic sensor with an exposed thermistor is all about reduced lag time.

The ability to appreciate other brands, other designs both new and old is a sign of a true motorcyclist. On that HD thing though... I'm afraid I just don't get it. To each his own, but the prevailing attitude of the typical HD rider turns me off to the whole brand. I get pretty tired of the "when are you going to buy a Harley?" or "when are you going to buy a real motorcycle?"

I think you're close to the mark Gene. Factor in the need to split hairs and argue about the width of the split until the crux of the original post has been long forgotton and you'll have a bullseye.

My bud has a 1050 Sprint. Quite a capable bike. Wonderful motor. The riding position and wind protection is a bit more sport bike like than an FJ or Concours though. I'd think the Yamaha or the Kawasaki would be a better mount for long distance work.

Well, it looks like we are drifting away from the intent of the thread again. Why does the subject of temperature (cylinder head or climate) always cause such hubbub?

I tried to get them to do a similar experiment in the middle of the last thread involving a pot on a stove so no one would have to buy anything to further their understanding. They didn't bite on that one either...

If lively banter is your thing, there is 58 pages of it on this very subject here: http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=11231 It became so lively that dad shut it down because some would not play nice. So pour yourself a beer and start reading! Seriously, there are a couple of opposing opinions going on here. One (mine among a select few others) thinks that MG sensing cylinder head temp on an air cooled engine with a coolant sensor and calling it oil temp sensing was in error. Further, a temp sensor designed to be in moving coolant mounted inside a holder sensing the air temp inside the holder was very slow to react and once hot as in very slow moving traffic would take too long to cool when the motor cooled as speed was picked up. The term "thermal inertia" was used here by others to describe the speed at which a material would change temperature, or more accurately, how long it would hold temperature. In this case the sensor body and mounting holder. With the thermistor located inside a brass casing, and in some cases mounted inside a brass holder, the heat would not dissipate quickly enough. All that metal would heat up OK, it just stays hot too long. Ratchet experimented with a sensor designed to sense air temp (the thermistor is exposed and the body is made of plastic, hence lower thermal inertia) I simply installed mine differently. Following this opinion, the reason for the air gap is to smooth the readings. The temp spikes of an air cooled motor make proper fueling more difficult. The ECU will lean the mixture too much when very hot temp is sensed. The bottom line is we are sensing air temp with an air temp sensor and it has worked well for us.

Hey Tom, You are probably right about the seat flexing the board but just to be safe, you may want to put an amp meter on that circuit. Excessive draw can do that to the board.

Congrats David. The best part is the more you ride it the more you'll like it.

Now I'm with you Pete. The satisfaction of a perfectly running motor after careful tuning, or the added confidence inspired by a well handling bike after properly setting up suspension is especially gratifying if you do it yourself. Not to say other bikes don't need sorting, the MG just seems to respond to it. Perhaps that is suggesting that they are poorly put together to begin with. That's OK though, I'll finish the job. I must add though, much of my tinkering has been to make her be and feel lighter.

Good going Velf. I'm glad there are others using the idea. Kudos to Ratchet for being the one to take it from theory to practice. Dave, When testing these sensors the manufacturers show the published ohm spec and give a variance of +/- 10%. Considering this overlap, there is virtually no difference from one manufacturer to the next. Manufacturing variances cause this range. To have them all spec exactly would make for a far more costly part. I still don't think the air gap size is terribly important (within reason) considering the cavity is quite small and not vented. I had the opportunity to take my first extended ride with this set up today. The bike ran great, better than it did all last season with the paste on the old sensor. No more lean hiccup on partial throttle in the 3000 RPM range. I have not checked mileage yet.

OK, You've convinced me, the V11 is a featherweight.

She is a beauty Brian. Enjoy. I bought an Aprilia late last fall and nearly sold the LeMans. I haven't ridden the LeMans much since and didn't really miss it but I have it out today and while it doesn't perform like the Ape, it is still a blast to ride and in many ways more enjoyable than the new one. I am so happy it didn't sell.

Join the club Mark. Many here have a split personality:

Well, That is precisely what we did. Two air temp sensors. And, yes, the whole idea of using the GM sensor is it ranges the same as the MG sensor. Like I said, the difference between 5 and 10 millimeters inside that holder cavity is not of much consequence. Bolt in, screw in or interference fit, it really doesn't matter. The reason I went with screw in is because I didn't want to remove / break the stock plastic holder.

Here's a couple Gavo

The Wilbers unit I put on mine is terrific. Call Todd. http://www.guzzitech.com/WilbersSuspensions.html

Nobody is saying our bikes could, would or should be in the same performance arena as modern sport bikes. The subject line of this thread is "weight". The V11 Sport was MG's new model offering as a sport bike in 1999. Comparing it to most any sport bike from 10 or even 15 years ago and not thinking it is heavy is absurd.

Right with you on all counts. The Roadrunner tour sounds like fun. I've done a couple of Edelweiss tours and one from Aerostich. Happily, on both Edel tours we were with a fast group and had like minded guides. No disappointments on any of them. Great way to experience another part of the globe.

Are you suggesting putting the brass sensor in the air box? Let me know how that works out for you. I'd also like it if you posted pics of how you mounted the MG air sensor to the V11 head. Thanks in advance. No obvious stuff ignored here. Any air temp sensor that has the same range will work. Ratchet asked me back when he was experimenting if I knew of anything that would do. I did some looking and the first one I found that had the same temp / resistance values was for a 2000 GM car. I'm quite sure other makers are similar but the GM sensor is compact, plastic, and cheap. If you'll remember we were looking for low mass. The GM unit meets all the criteria. It has the added benefit of a readily available pigtail for easy installation. There may be others that fit the bill even better but I'll leave that searching to someone else. (maybe you want to spend some time on it?) Like I said in the first post. I just added this info for those interested in the set up. If you are not, why not move on.

For bikes without much character, they sure do work well eh? Not to hijack here but did you do an organized tour of the alps or do it on your own?

Sheesh Pete, what's all the hostility about? There is no question that the V11 Sport is considered a sport bike. They made them until mid this decade. It is without a doubt heavier than other sport bikes from the same years that it was made. It is like saying that a Harley is not heavy because it is of old design. WTF? The simple fact is some here consider the V11 Guzzi heavy by modern standards. It is just that. We don't need to go to the gym more often because we feel that way. Although, if you have trouble getting a Bimmer up on the center stand perhaps some gym time is just what you need.

I've made no measurement. It is sensing the air temp inside the cavity so I really feel the difference between 5mm and 10mm will not be of too much consequence. If it were in a large space or in open air there would be a great difference but the holder is a pretty confined space. When the plastic sensor is screwed in fully, I'd estimate the reach is within 10mm of the old brass unit. Remember, RH's has the plastic cage on it. The actual thermistor is a few mm above that. If it is an issue I can simply cut more threads to screw it in deeper.