Dan M

Holy shit. I'm offline for 11 days and 7 pages are added to this thread. I was thinking the activity was waning but evidently I had that thought bassackwards. So far as sensor material and operation, I need no education on that Greg. I've been testing thermistors for 30ish years. I've heated them, cooled them tested resistance and voltage drops. I've graphed their operation from cold start to full operating temperature. I'm quite certain I know how they work. My contention is whoever spec'd the sensor also spec'd the holder. Why not screw it directly into the head? That seems to be the most direct contact, eh? That would be even cheaper if your theory that less money was the driver here. Why on a bike that has expensive components like Brembo gold line brakes would they save a buck on a sensor holder? I still contend the plastic was spec'd for a reason. Sometimes engineers make mistakes, and have to shift on the fly especially when dealing with new (to them) systems. Why would you say Greg that they spec'd a vacuum controlled fuel pressure regulator then didn't hook it up to vacuum? It is because it is not appropriate to the vacuum pulses of a twin. That fact didn't stop it from making it on to the bikes. They just had to alter it and keep it open to atmosphere. That temp sensor is designed to be in a water jacket. The ECU is a simple one. I'm thinking the extreme and rapid temp changes of an air cooled cylinder head are a bit much for it (the ECU) to handle. Insulating it with plastic mimics it being in coolant. It slows variation. Makes for a much simpler map.

In the December issue of MCN ( www.mcnews.com ) there is a test of the Aprilia Tuono and when on the subject of brakes they make this point: "...Dual Brembo Gold Line four piston, four pad, radial-mount calipers squeezing big floating 320mm rotors. Compared to two-pad calipers, the extra leading edges increase initial bite and power, and allow for smaller pads that don't need such a wide swept area (thus reducing unsprung weight). But they can sometimes create their own issues, and the Ducati 1098 is a good example, with pads so aggressive and an initial bite so ferocious that its brakes actually feel too powerful for routine street use. Thankfully Aprilia's less aggressive pad compound avoids this problem..." Evidently more people feel that racing brakes are too much for the street. Edit: What the hell is a technic? I sure don't want to have poor technics on my bike.

+1 Scariest thing on the road. ~ Driving while blind. ~ Less predictable than a deer coming out of the woods. ~ Decision making skills of a squirrel crossing the street. Anybody got anymore?

Italian bikes and Italian women have a way of getting into your pockets

Have you never added anything to your bike just because you liked it? Shit, a paint job is bling, serves no function, it is just what the owner wants for himself. To each his own. I'm just saying that many "performance" mods are done because the guy wants it. The performance gain is not realized or utilized.

Are you sure the addition of a washer is not slowing things? It is more metal to heat and cool. It would be interesting to know how much faster or slower the voltage on the signal wire changes with or without your heat sink. Seems hard to make direct comparisons. You can back probe with a voltmeter and get a feel for how fast (and how much) the numbers change. Still, the biggest missing piece of the puzzle is how much pulsewidth compensation is made at what temperatures.

Gee, and Docc was just inviting us to his gig. (something that has caught my interest) Seems like a great bunch of guys in the south east. So far as actual braking action goes, the stock Brembos are a terrific set up. The stockers can easily overcome the traction of a modern sport tire even with two fingers on the lever. Radially mounted 4 pad calipers and radial master cylinders allow for more bite but their main attraction is feel. The direct action of a radial master will give a slightly more precise feel and slightly more power but the difference without the addition of stiff radially mounted calipers is somewhat wasted. Can that feel be measured? No. Is there a palpable difference? Sure. There will be less lever effort but the question is who needs it if you can lock the front wheel with two fingers. It is pretty easy for a seasoned rider to brake to the edge of lock up with the stock set up. So the question is why do the upgrade? I think if most were honest they would say bling. I don't find anything wrong with that, everybody can spend their own money as they please. God knows I've spent unreasonable amounts for marginal gains on my bike, it's just something I like to do. Will a radial master make you faster in parking lots? I highly doubt it. There is still a bit of lipstick being applied to pigs here. Let's admit it.

So, it would follow that even with a custom map, it will only have accurate fueling at the temperature in which the map was done. If temperature compensation is too great or too little, there may still be trouble. From what I've witnessed, these bikes (pre feedback years) are pretty much all over the board it terms of stock a/f ratio. Way rich in some areas and way lean in others. And, it seems to vary from bike to bike. Some get decent mileage out of the box, some don't. Some ping, some don't. From what has been written here, some run better with the temp sensor left alone, some improve with the better contact. If your bike is inherently lean, making better contact with the temp sensor will make things worse. If it is rich, especially in the RPM & throttle opening range you favor, eliminating the gap or plastic will improve things. There are a few things here that are clear. The bikes were spec'd with a plastic holder. The plastic holder insulates the sensor from the head. Altering that head to sensor connection will change what the computer sees. Making a better physical connection between the sensor and the head will give a higher temp reading to the computer. A higher temp reading will lean the mixture.

Yes, exactly. I still contend the air cooled component is the issue. Head temps soar compared to their liquid cooled counterparts. That is not the time to lean further. I believe the plastic was spec'd for a reason just as the brass has fins on it. In all liquid cooled applications the sensor is screwed directly into the head (coolant) - They insulated it for a reason. Edit: Does any brand of map changing device allow to compensate for temp or just throttle position & RPM? What about the Wittner input?

Most boy racers I've come across already believe they're invincible. :!:

Beautiful. Really coming together nicely, love your choice of headlight, really gives it the cafe look.

Check an auto parts store for a similar bottle jack. I had to replace mine a couple of years ago and found a sutable replacement for not too much money.

Yea it's a great idea. I have to add a caster to mine.

I with ya on this Raz. I've been witness to so many tweakers screwing things up in the name of performance I can't count them. I'll admit to doing it myself. More often than not people will make a change, cause a problem, change something else to compensate and cause yet another problem. The old adage "can't leave well enough alone" is the bane of tinkerers. If we own & ride Italian motorcycles we must be tinkerers at heart so it is quite difficult for most to leave things alone. Two years ago after all of the mods I did to my bike I was running an off the shelf map and my bike was running about as close to perfect as I could want. Last winter for no good reason other than I was bored and had been dipping into the forum too often, while doing various things in the garage I decided to give this supposed troublesome temp sensor and it's designed by the devil plastic holder a look. I found the sensor to be finger tight. Well, this had to be reconciled. So I removed it, packed it with paste and reinstalled it quite satisfied that now things had been perfected in my Guzzi world. This past riding season I experienced poor, lean running, especially in hot weather. Did I go back to the scene of the crime? No. I started futzing elsewhere, looking for vacuum leaks, checking the never touched TPS and adjusting my map that had been perfectly suited to my bike the year before. I made improvements but never really had it to the spec of 2007. I have done nothing to the goose this winter but before spring I will restore the sensor to it's original unpasted state and go back to my old map. Sorry for the ramble, it's winter here too...

You see, you learn something new every day. I thought those were "ankle grips" Thanks for the enlightenment

Good one!

A real beauty.

Very nice!

You are right the Alliance was assembled in Kenosha Wisconsin by the ill fated AMC. It was a Renault though. The American version of the Renault 9. It is fitting that the "Alliance" was struck with AMC. They never really produced anything spectacular. In their later years, they were often a jumble of parts supplied by the other manufacturers. Usually a bad mix as it appeared they were always buying from the lowest bidder, and assembled a broken down aging facility. (Hmm, sounds like a motorcycle factory I've heard of) AMC as a brand were known here as "Kenosha Vibrators" The Merkur was a Ford product that was built by Karmann in Germany.

Huh? Renault? Merkur? Last I checked Catera was an Opel... I'm not a great fan of American cars and I like the fact the magazine apologized for naming those listed as best to begin with because they were all busts. But had they named some other euro cars I've witnessed over the years they would probably have sent letters of apology to subscribers. Any other Renault, most 1980s era Fiats and Peugeots... I'm sure there is more surpressed in my memory but I don't want the nightmares to start again.

Looks like your left foot would get a little hot. My guess is it never sees the road. Like so many American artsy choppers, it may not even run.

Sounds like she's a bit lean in that range to me. Pretty tough to diagnose such things online, hence all the speculation. Don't be overwhelmed by all the talk of relays & sensors. You can swap out all of the relays for very little money but I highly doubt it is your trouble. I'd start with the basics like others have mentioned, primarily valve adjust and TB sync. Leave your TPS alone unless you think someone has played with it (screws have yellow paint on them so it is easy to see) If you start changing things like that setting you are just as likely to create more trouble for yourself. It is possible that the aftermarket cans exacerbated an already lean range. A PC3 with a proper map and perhaps a crossover will likely solve the issue. (did for me)

Easy as pie my friend. As Richard said pull the calipers first. It is good to use a bungie or similar to hold them up and away so they are not banging around and hanging by the hoses. Depending on how you are supporting the bike it may be easier to just remove the fender to give yourself more clearance but it is not necessary if the bike is high enough. Lay the parts out in order as you pull them off and you won't get mixed up going back together. Happy wrenching. If you run into a snag just post again.

I was hoping somebody had a connection to some real answers. Let us know if the truth is out there. I'm dissapointed his name doesn't contain more vowels though....