Both of those are real beauties. For me, a "good deal" can only be determined by the one who is laying out the cash. I think I got a good deal on my Rosso Corsa, but there will be other RC's sold for less than I paid. Everyone wants a good deal, but both of these bikes can be had at prices both above and below what your local dealer is asking. Just look at ebay currently, or cycletrader . . . the question then becomes, where are the bikes located, and how can one get it into his garage! I'm one for supporting a good local dealer. Paying a few exter hundred dollars, above the price of a bike 500 miles away, can pay big dividends when it comes to developing a good win-win business relationship over the long haul.