RacerX

Heh, see what you started Brian. ToddGuzziTech.com

Cliff, that first part is obviouly directed at me, so... I'll start by saying, again, that I continually commend you on taking on such a task as developing your own ECU, and having even remote success is well worth commendation. Secondly I'll add, that in the arguement of 02-sensor disconnects... this primarily applies to 90% of the general motorcycling public who cannot control a target a/f ratio for the sensor within the OEM ECU. The words posted elsewhere by Michael Belcher/Dynojet are as stands. That said, my point has, and still lies in the fact that the current technology (and lets face it, budgets) put constraints on purely 02-sensor driven mapping. I'm pretty sure I never implied that it could *never* work. Just that, at right now at this time, it's not most ideal... as some of the points have been made here (like above) already. Also, race teams... I have spent the latter part of the last 12 years competing in, and around road-racing here in the U.S., and can tell you rules mainly regulate what can be used for F.I./ECUs. There are a great deal of F.I. products/ECU's here Stateside (as I'm sure World-wide too) that are very impressive, but still do not recommend pure closed-loop operation... just yet any way. Most of the upper end drag-racing Moto community strictly use aftermarket style ECUs, which incorporate 02-sensors for data-logging their 5-second 100% throttle runs. My $.02 again, ToddGuzziTech.com

Hubert, interestingly enough my post on this disappered. Conspiracy? I can assure you that no current bikes use full closed loop... Esp. on any of the high-revving Japanese bikes (much less German, Italian, etc.). Trust me when I say I am/stay "well informed" on this. ToddGuzziTech.com

Folks, still finalizing all (Rally) details, but for a taste... Plans are shaping up very well, with a ton of interesting things to do, and people to see. Come join in the conversation on the SoCal-guzzi.com phpbb Board More to follow soon, ToddSoCal-Guzzi.com p.s. My avatar photo was shot on the road going around the right of the Lake in the picture shown above.

So then you'd offer it for free then, correct? Seriously, I'd like to chat offline. Please mail me direct, or PM me if need be. ToddGuzziTech.com p.s. Folks should keep in mind the "volume" of the car market when claims like above are made.

Robb, there are a few Guzzi riders in PHX.. contact me direct (via e-mail below), and I'll put you in touch with them. ToddGuzziTech.com p.s. Moto-Euro Mag is Phoenix based. I was there last month, with my Jackal-nator... so you missed atleast one.

Ok folks, Here we go... Dates for the "First Annual Get-Together" are March 25-27th. We need a head count, so if you're coming... please let us know; http://www.phpbbforfree.com/forums/viewtop...orum=socalguzzi Thanks, and looking forward to seeing you there! Todd

Just be sure to deal with these guys for all technical issues and maps. That is *FAR* below my cost. Just please remember, I/Guzzitech.com are responsible for most of the maps available, and the fact the a usbPCIII exists for Guzzis. ToddGuzziTech.com

That is correct Brian. ToddGuzziTech.com

Ahhh... David, I beg to differ. You claimed above, "sell ECU tuning for $150 plus dyno time". I was refering to the fact that a TL operator wouldn't make anything on the "key" at $150 (which I thought was the price). You were simply looking at it from a consumer/out-of-pocket pricing/expense... that is until he told everyone here that he'd sell it to TL operators for $100. OK, so I think you should buy it, and prove it to us. I'm talking about building the ultimate map using TL with it... as I was refering to some of the pricing that was being charged to do it... not implying EVERYONE charges this. David, if you read the links to the Aprilia board, there is a guy in San D that refuses to use it, and he's a TL Dyno Center. Already tried several times... no response. Direct or via this board's PM. Conflicting... I'm only posting the highlights of the debate the happened over on the Aprilia board. David, did you really read those posts over there? I'd bet anything on that one. ToddGuzziTech.com

Yes they, Red Bull, sure do; http://www.redbullsupermoto.com/ Todd E AMASuperMoto.com - R.M.

I will. Spending 40 hours mapping is plain stupid, no matter what the cost. TLCenters, as you state in the last part don't. I'm not seeing what your point is? Ok, finally answered thanks. So... dlaing says that TL Centers should'nt make a penny on this (per above), and now everyone knows what you charge TL Dyno Centers. It would've been nice to have this part off-list. So, now would be the time to say how about you send me one for trial (two keys for my two bikes please), and if I like using it on the dyno, I'll pay for it, start using it for mapping... and promote it's use on GuzziTech.com. Even Cliff builds a baseline on a Load-cell dyno... which still prove to be the best way to build a map, per your very own words above. Clarifying for dlaing... this is not for Guzzi's 15M ECU. And David, you really should go back and re-read this whole post in depth. For all posts regarding 02 sensor based mapping... please search my post on '02 Sensors' from earlier. Should shed some light on your posts. GuzzTim has the right idea though... track time is far worth the investment over all of this non-sense. Heh! ToddGuzziTech.com Instructor Red Shift Track School

My pleasure Jim... thank(s to) whomever supplied the map. Enjoy, ToddGuzziTech.com

One key for each ECU = $150 (cost for the dyno operator for each bike), and this isn't something you have sitting on the shelf when you need another one. There is a ton of expense to own and operate a dyno, much less if it is your sole source of income. You need a a/f dyno to build a proper map for *your* bike... otherwise you'll spend an eternity thinking you've got it right. Anyone who's had a proper dyno-built map will atest. If Cliff's My15M ECU would allow Tuning Link mapping input (and I see this one brewing at the local pub already)... you'd be getting somewhere. ToddGuzziTech.com p.s. Another one added to the "satisfied" customer list; http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=4227

1. Ok. 2. Fair enough. 3. I'll get back to you after I digest it... but my initial reply is to say I haven't experienced any "issues" at alititude with the 15M. I have well over 100k on my Jackal/15M and it's been through everything imaginable... nor I have I ever heard of this with those with even more mileage then me. I think it's safe to say that while the 15M is far from perfect, it's not too damn bad in the grand scheme of things. I just remembered that the PCIII does NOTHING to the mixture based on barometric pressure... it is solely the ECU's responsibility. It's proven to work very well as I've witnessed. I am however, awaiting words from Michael B/Dynojet on this topic. wmcdonal, I've been following a thread on the Aprilia board where mapping prices with Tuneboy are bringing $1200-2000USD. True? I sill have yet to see that you've addressed my comments of Tuning Link Center use fees(?). I look forward to more dialogue, ToddGuzziTech.com

Doesn't help a Tuning Link operator much... and the end user is pretty helpless without them. Ok, David, so you'll be in line when it arrives then? All of this work and push of late to develop these things warrants litte-to-no sales for these with marques like Guzzi. Why/how are you going to fry an ECU? Hasn't happened on any that I've known of, and they can be found regularly on eBay for about $100 ($400~ish new). Also David, you might be forgetting that 02-sensored bikes run a VERY limited portion of the map (low throttle settings) in closed loop. All else is still open loop. No. The BMW unit does not contain everything. It only includes a adj. a/f ratio target 02 sensor from within the PCIIIusb (for the very limited closed loop portion of the throttle), nothing else. You should go back and read the paragraphs posted in my other posts re: 02 sensor based mapping. The "plug-in modules" (and Dynojet also makes a fuel-kill option for racebikes if you've seen), are Dynojet's solution to continue to offer easy "options" like these to the PCIIIusb. It is after all, about making money for them, and they lead the pack right now. My $.02, ToddGuzziTech.com

Hi Hubert, I don't think Dynojet is much worried, as PCIII sales are VERY, VERY good... and as such (and often stated) a big handful of the AMA Pro Race Teams use PCIII/Tuning Link technology every race weekend. I'm personally not at all concerned with 'Tuneboy' software users using PCIII maps, moreso curious as to how his program interfaces with Dynojet's Tuning Link software. The 02-sensor is a simple block-off OEM-style plug at the end of the 02 sensor wire (closest to the 02 sensor). The timing module is a seperate smaller box that will 'piggy-back' onto the PCIIIusb, yes. WidebandCommander is totally seperate, and highly doubtful you'd run it all the time any way. Data logging is great for racers and diagnostic reference, but nothing you'd run all the time. I remain open to everything that becomes available on the market... just that Dynojet's PCIIIusb has been a very nice, easily accessible tool for many years now. ToddGuzziTech.com

Sure thing then... first from above: Ok, so only one key for each purchase? So, if I owned three bikes, I'd need to buy three keys then(?). Are you discounting for multiple bikes? How are you handling Tuning Link Centers that would be doing multiple bike/ECU maps? Dynojet is now finalizing a Timing Module plug-in for PCIIIusb that will handle timing adjustments for the 15M. So that part is incorrect. Dynojet is also ready to release an "02 sensor controller" for the newest 15M-IAW (only currently on the Breva here in the States). This will allow for full map access around the 02 sensor... which I also posted an explanation for why 02 sensors aren't ideal on Moto engines from Dynojet's Director of FI Development, Michael Belcher... referencing the "released this month" BMW PCIII will also include an adjustable-target a/f ratio'ed 02 sensor inside the PCIIIusb, much like you describe for your program. They also have WideBandCommander.com for data logging - Just an FYI... Under "#1 - 'Flaws' - Causes closed loop mode to function incorrectly (*Note1), and #2 - Causes fueling problems at high altitude" You subnote #1, when nearly all 15M's stateside do not have/utilize 02 sensored ECUs. #2, If you say this, then the ECU's ability to correct this is wrong... this is something often argued when someone is offered the ability to "adjust for altitude (compensation)". So are you implying that WM/MM were off-the-mark with the 15M ECU alitude adjustment? My bike, and all the others I've ridden, from Sea Level to 7000-8000 ft (usually in less then 30 minutes) have no running issues with the stock PCIII'ed 15M ECU. I am curious as to what data you derive this statement from? How do you utilize Tuning Link to your software for map corrections? I'm not trying to debate what your program (as I like what I'm hearing so far), I'd just like to make sure all the info "-vs- PCIII" is correct. I look forward to chatting more with you on this. Awaiting you reply, ToddGuzziTech.com

Me too. I sent you an e-mail direct, but if you'd like to discuss it here, we can. Ok, so only one key for each purchase? So, if I owned three bikes, I'd need to buy three keys then(?). Are you discounting for multiple bikes? How are you handling Tuning Link Centers that would be doing multiple bike/ECU maps? ToddGuzziTech.com

We're closing in on the dates for the First Annual LA/SoCal Guzzi Gathering on the link above. If you're even thinking of attending, please voice your opinion/thoughts here; http://www.phpbbforfree.com/forums/viewtop...orum=socalguzzi Thanks, Todd

Griso will be on '06 (as also written elsewhere), though I'm hoping/planning on having one in Sept-ish of '05 via delivery in Italy. I wouldn't expect it to be in the States until very late '05 (per my "sources", which as we know can change at any minute, via Guzzi). Completely agreed!!! Although there are some nice new features that I'll be looking forward to. If Guzzi is to continue forward, folks are going to have to buy '05s... so I'll be one of them. ToddGuzziTech.com

Excellent! So now I can make millions. Most of your data in comparison to the PCIII towards the bottom of your comparo page is flawed/incorrect. I'll be e-mailing you direct to discuss further. ToddGuzziTech.com Certified PCIII Tech - Dynojet's Guzzi Technical Advisor

No they are actually heat-shielded (standard diameter to the current V11S') ala most aftermarket HD sewage-pipe-sized headers. The 2v motor in this bike (and the Breva-11), is one of "higher output" to the current V11S' (by a VERY slight margin mind you). I look forward to another 100k miles with a 2v'er. You can bet if anyone doesn't have an aftermarket muffler for it when it arrives, GuzziTech.com will. I'm planning to get both the Griso and the Breva-11 to Dynojet probably before the production versions start arriving. ToddGuzziTech.com

I thought a few of you here might be interested in the "custom order only/sold-out/limited production" legendary SW 'Moto-What' T's; http://www.geocities.com/mgnoc_socal/Pictures-T-Shirts.html There are the few extras I had done. Current count left (as of 1/2/05): White - XL Short Sleeve (5) Black - XL S.S. (1) Blk - XXL S.S. (1) Blk - XXL Long S. (1) First come, first served. Contact me direct still if you'd like one. ToddGuzziTech.com

Looking forward to a very healthy relationship with one of these. Hoping to take delivery in Italy late next year. Wish me luck. ToddGuzziTech.com