Pierre

From the Megacycle horse's mouth: http://www.guzzitech.com/Files/megacams.pdf FWIW - my project includes the RR3 (x8) cam. Nasty. Fun.

Wow! I didn't even know about the first one! Congratulations! ... on each and every one of 'em. David, you da' man! FWIW - give each of 'em their own car - it'll go a long way toward keeping peace in the household I'd think.

Any of you dealer types (Greg, Todd, Mike, Jason - and now Pete) have access to the ignition table for the new twin plugged Guzzis? I'm looking for a baseline ignition map for my '97 sport i twin plug. Looking to flash it to the m16 ECU chip. I'm gonna' cross post this in all the usaul places so you guys can't claim to have "missed" it. TIA.

Good call. Gets my vote. God speed Christian.

Hey guys, thanks for the help on the engine lightening question. Responded here: http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?...indpost&p=84610 and added some additional info I received from Mike Rich. Next question - does anyone know if the throttle bodies on the Centauro / Daytona (51s) will slip onto my sport i manifold? I understand I'll have to bore out the manifold - but curious what the interchangeability is? Anyone done this? TIA.

Hey guys, thanks for the responses. Left town yesterday and just back this morning. I did as advised, and revisited the issue with Mike Rich. The balancing procedure is as you guys have described. However, Mike tells me he varies the balance factor depending on what rev range the bike will be making power in. His response to the impact of 20 grams per piston was "+- 1% to the balance factor" - so well within his parameters. Seems Falicon used 55 as balance factor. Mike goes as high as 61 and as low as 51 - again depending. The primary reason for inserting his pistons is valve recess. I've got an RR3 cam in there and existing valve clearance was the width of a crushed head gasket. Lived fine that way for 7000 miles. Now, however - with a stage 3 (screw and glue) porting job, I'm going to be upping the rev limit to closer to 9000 RPM. I already had Carrillo rods, and stock pistons would have been fine even at that RPM, but Mike's pistons have more relief at the valve pockets so it delivers substantially more piston to valve clearance. That, the superior "squish" design of his pistons, and the fact he threw them in "no charge" made it a pretty easy decision. FWIW, I'll have a 10.9 / 1 static CR (as measured by Mike). That's just about where I was with the stock pistons - his have a wider dome, but porting resulted in greater head volume. The bike is twin plugged, and of course the cam has lots of over lap which makes the 10.9 / 1 less a detonation issue than would at first appear. I'm now trying to determine if the Daytona / Centauro throttle bodies will bolt up to my intake manifolds. Seems sport i is 45 and Centauro is 51 or thereabouts. Also have to check that my existing manifolds can be bored out that far. Anyone done this BTW? If you guys are curious at all about the history of this project you can find it here: http://www.guzzitech.com/Sporti-EngMods_PierreP.html Project started in the dark early days of FI. Since I began this adventure of course, Todd has managed to get Dynojet to build the PC III and now the PC III usb for the bike. I discovered Will Creedon's chips - and even prevailed on him to flash a new ignition map. Will be updating that with factory twin plug curve - but modified at full throttle. We'll see what comes of it. Now if I can just get Cliff to make his MY ECU work with the PC III so I can continue to use the tuning link ... FWIW, I'm probably a poster boy for Ratchet's warnings. OTOH, I've enjoyed the process and the bike (+-90 RWHP to date) is a rock and roll riot to ride. Good drivability and no motor related issues. took her on a 7000 mile summer tour in current (RR3 cam) configuration summer of '04 (including Guzzi national) and the bike never missed a beat. Hope to retain that same drivability and reliability, but with significant additional power everywhere. We'll see. It'll go back on the same dyno for comparison. Heads are "in transit" and shop has bike scheduled for work next week. Also FWIW, although my hit and miss approach has been pretty pricey (including some disasters along the way - set of heads lost by UPS in AU is one) I think knowing what I now know, and given current resources available - I could do it again for about 1/3 to a half of what I spent. Now , if I'd known the MGS-01 was going to be released I'd not have done any of it and I'd own one of those beauties now. I'm pretty sure they can be made street legal (in fact it's been done, I understand) even in California. However, I'd have missed several years of riding a pretty potent two valver - so I'm not complaining. I'll post updates when available. Thanks again for the input.

Looks like I'm getting a set of Mike Rich's pistons for my sport i. Question - they're 20 grams lighter than the stock pistons they'll be replacing. the engine was balanced with the stock pistons a few years ago. So, what gets balanced in an engine balance? I'm assuming the new pistons are identical in weight - one to the other - but lighter. I don't know the stock pistons were identical in weight. Big deal? Not enough weight change to worry about? Anyone know just what is involved when motor gets sent out for balancing? Falco or something like that in FL did mine. TIA.

That's my shop girl, Wallis. Sheesh! Thought it was obvious. That's the Monday following a 3 day race weekend at Willow Springs with WSMC. After that there's the AHRMA event at Willow the last weekend in April. So I'm pretty booked up for track time that month. Otherwise I'd love to.

Hmmm. Maybe he has a body double (or would that be a doubled body) touring England. Probably makes the "blokes" over there view him as more "genuine Harley."

Yes I did ask, and of course your point was obvious - as was my retort. FWIW: Gonzo journalism is characterized by the use of quotes, sarcasm, humor, exaggeration, and profanity. Dr. Thompson bases his style on William Faulkner's idea that "the fiction is often the best fact". While the things that Dr. Thompson writes about are basically true, he uses satirical devices to drive his points home. http://www.gonzo.org/hst/hst.asp?ID=0 Thompson is a larger than life figure in USA - though many here share your opinion of his writing. However - for a notable number of Americans Thompson's writing strikes a chord. His "subjective" style I find refreshing in an era when the myth of objectivity permeates some of the most subjective reporting I've ever witnessed - only now it's called "news." I think too he resonates with American bikers because of his book "Hells Angels." The Hells Angels are another uniquely American biker phenomenon that I don't think had a counterpart in Europe. The whole biker gang thing is probably a big part of the difference in American vs. European biker viewpoints. I think he resonates politically as well - but I'll stop here since politics aren't part of the local format.

... and your point?

Well ... it's close. All JMHO, of course.

Sorry, not even close. Here's the "original" sausage creature. Got HT beat by 40 some odd years.

Sears / Benelli? 1969?

David, I think it's ceramics that will be the great equalizer. After all, it's the heat shedding superiority of water pumpers that makes them stronger per CC. That advantage all but disappears with ceramics, I think. That's why I love FX and the fact that Buell is competing there. I really want to see air cooled technology pushed hard - not left to the dust bin of history. I suspect the two stroke had a lot still to offer but couldn't get out ahead of the legislative curve. Don't want to see that happen with air cooled motors. I think racing drives innovation. Keep 'em racing and they'll continue to get better. But ceramics are the equalizer IMHO.

I love this speculating. And i agree, it's nice to be able to do that with a little evidence that it may happen. That said, I do hope they don't jump right into the liquid cooled arena. I've got so many good choices in that genre' already. I'd much rather have a big bore air cooled twin ala the Buell. Sorry, but air cooled remains my preference, and Eric Buell (god bless him) is takin' a run at making a big bore air cooled twin competitive in FX. If Guzzi followed that path - a refined (lightened - more HP) MGS-01 I'd be ecstatic. Actually, I'd take the MGS-01 for the street just as it sits if I could get it licensed. The factory and race team gurus can do the racing number on it after the fact and race it FX - fine by me. I know the old 4 valve is at the end of its life. I just hope the successor engine remains air cooled.

Very nice! I too wonder how you got it licensed? DMV kit exception? Just borrowing a plate from the Daytona? Used same approach to switch my Aprilia between street and track. Changing out body work just too much trouble. Not nearly as clean as yours, however - but I didn't have that nice opening up front to work with. 'Course - the fact you thought to use it is inspired. Do tell if it's street legal, or just looks street legal. Inquiring (calculating) minds want to know. Pierre

So Cliff, if I understand correctly "closed loop" is a tuning feature, not a real time run feature. Is that correct? IOW, once you get it "tuned" in "closed loop" mode, you then disable that feature and run the map the "closed loop" created. Sort of an over the road tuning session with the "closed loop" feature substituting for the dyno link software. If I have that correct, then a question I have is how do you manage the fine throttle settings required while riding the bike? OTOH, if you put it on a dyno, is there a read out from you computer available to tell the operator where he is on the throttle setting? Seems with that info, running in closed loop, you can tune each throttle setting throughout the rev range. No need for the tuning link software. Let the computer tune itself closed loop. Correct? Is that what you meant earlier by (paraphrase) "no need for tuning link, let the "closed loop" setting do it."?

Whoopsie!

Yes. The three dyno operators I've worked with do rely on the tuning link - and have developed a certain "expertise" with it. Seems to shorten the process if nothing else. Any idea when that feature might be available for the My16? I know that would probably foreclose "closed loop" option. From what I've read, and reports I've heard - you have managed to address any number of shortcomings with the Weber Marelli which makes you computer very appealing. Another question I have (I'm asking everybody who might have dealt with the issue) deals with the ignition map. I understand yours is fully adjustable, but I assume you start with a map that you've tested. Is it similar / same to that found on the existing Weber Marelli? Have you had occasion to develop one for twin plugged heads? What is the best way to go about adjusting ignition timing? Do yo first get f/a sorted, then play with timing? If so, what are you looking for at various throttle settings? I suppose for full throttle it's simply a matter of balancing power against pinging - but how about at smaller throttle settings? Sorry for so many questions. Frankly, I'd hoped there was a formula similar to f/a to shoot for with ignition, but the maps I've seen thus far don't show that consistency. Much greater advance at partial throttle, lesser at full throttle. What should be looked for when adjusting timing? Apologies if some of this is proprietary, but I'm at the point where I'm about to build an ignition map for a very aggresive cam in high compression flowed heads so any 'tips" as to setting ignition are most appreciated. FWIW, I'm gong to try to get the factory ignition table for the Breva / Griso twin plugged motors - see how it differs from stock sport i and from the modified dual plug alternatives I'm aware of. TIA.

Cliff, have you ever considered making the My16 compatible with the PCIII?

Nicely put Ratchet. Couldn't agree more. Todd and I are embarking on a sport i project (pretty heavily modified motor) that we'll be discussing over on guzzitech forum. Feel free to check in. Any findiings I'll notify here and provide a click through. FI. So many tools! So little (but expanding thanks to boards like this and guzzitech) knowledge! Let the games begin. No reason we can't all play.

Thanks Al. Did you ever get a print out of the "re-map?" Curious how it is different, and where. Do you know if it was only at full throttle, or did they remap at all throttle / RPM settings? I'll be getting a look at the stock sport i map. I think Todd is trying to score the new factory dual plug map. Anxious to compare those two. In the meantime, I've got the Stein-Dinse analogue curve for dual plugged heads, and now a table from Mike Rich. They are substantially different, but again only deal with full throttle setting. If you have a print out of your re-mapped ignition I'd love to see it. I'll start posting any/all findings on the guzzitech tips section (where my "hot rod 101" project resides). We'll keep the sport i ignition discussion over on guzzitech, but feel free to join in or add. TIA. Pierre

Al, I suppose I should do a search, but what's a "mapped ECU from TLM?" I understand the V-11s don't have a chip to play with, so I'm guessing TLM is someone who reprograms the ECU? Just trying to figure out what you V-11 guys have done, and what part (if any) applies to the sport i / centauro ECU. TIA.