Ryland3210

I put in 4 U.S. quarts (3.78 liters) with a filter change. It came to 1/4 inch above the full mark on the dipstick, next to the 11 inch mark on the scale. On your bike, without the Roper plate, it should come up to about 3/8 inch higher than the full mark on the dipstick, still safely well below the block to sump gasket. According to my trusty Radio Shack conversion calculator, the conversion from 4 U.S. quarts is to 3.33 Imperial quarts. All measurements taken with the bike vertical and level and dipstick screwed in. If you refill without changing the filter, I would not add oil any higher than 0.69 inches above the dipstick full mark. If you install a Roper plate, you can go higher. Roper recommends just below the plate. As you can see, that's 2-5/8 from the tip of the dipstick. There is a plug at the back of the sump to drain oil from. It is a magnetic drain plug, the smaller of the two. It's a good idea to pull that out and wipe off any iron and steel particles that accumulate whenever you change oil. Draining the oil while still warm is a good idea simply because it comes out faster. It doesn't matter how cold the oil is versus the motor when you refill. The thermal expansion coefficient of oil is insignificant in this case.

I have no idea what RH meant by saying loading is more accurate than contamination. In my view, that's simply a cheap shot playing with semantics. Strange comment from one with an avowed interest in the practical as opposed to the academic. I asked for the pump flow rate because with that information, it could be compared with the max flow rate specified by filters. And it could be calculated under what conditions oil would bypass the filter. What if it turns out a filter bypassed at any RPM above X? No answer from RH. I was leading him back to objectivity. I believe he surmised where I was headed and chose not to go there, or simply couldn't be bothered. Some of us believe synthetic oils are worth the money, other's don't. Some think filter area and bypass relief settings are irrelevant, others want to know how a filter works and effect these factors have on the engine. In both cases, the effects on engine wear are long term. Who ever knows when a filter bypasses? What is known is that the capacity of a filter to capture dirt depends on the type of media and its area. It is clear that bypass settings have an effect on when unfiltered oil bypasses the filter as a function of certain conditions. Even though I accept the premise that Guzzi riders generally change their filters often enough to avoid loading them with contamination enough so they bypass continuously, I believe many want to use the best value (price and performance) filter. It helps to know what the factors are to do that. Ignorance may be bliss, but not for everyone. This is no different than other ways Guzzistis chose to make their bike meet their expectations and style, and there is not a dam'd thing wrong with that.

Gee, lighten up, Ratchethack. Pictures do supply useful information, regardless of the qualifications of the photographer to judge filters. Opinions can be accepted or rejected based on the credibility of the expressor.

Personally, I wouldn't bother. It doesn't seem there is any need.

I don't think it's worth pursuing if its an urban legend. I was just curious, with no problem that needed solving.

Comments from the Yamaha Venturer website from a dissection of several filters: Compared to the Yamaha OEM high tech filter: Filters with more element area than the Yamaha filter: Bosch 3233 premium Purolator has tighter pleats Less element area: Super Tech "Poor" filters with least area: NAPA Gold "terrible" Amsoil

Sorry if I bored you with academic explanations. The question was asked, so I answered it. Everyone else (yourself included) is free to ignore the explanation. OK, on the practical side, the NAPA PS1215 spec's max flow rate 7-9 GPM and bypass valve setting of 8-11 psi., lower than the 12-15 psi spec'd by UFI. What is the pump's flow rate versus RPM? Is it high enough to force a bypass of this filter even when it new?

Thanks. Actually I was dealing strickly in the idle regime. By "adjust for lower RPM", I meant the difference between adjusting the bypass screws to achieve, say 1200 RPM, at 3.7 degrees, versus, 1000 RPM. With 3.7 degrees in both cases, the lower RPM would require lower air bypass. Now if the fuel delivery is the same for all degrees below the amount "flagged" by the ECU software, would the mixture therefore be richer at the lower RPM. That's what I was trying to confirm.

Ratchethack's disagreement that bypass relief settings are important for Guzzi's is based upon the assumption that Guzzi filters are changed frequently enough and that contamination rates are insufficient at that frequency. Even a clean filter element causes a pressure drop. How much? I don't have numbers on this for the V11. Is the flow rate from the pump high enough with a clean element to cause bypass? I don't have the numbers here either. Filters come with various difference bypass relief settings, even from the same manufacturer. There is a reason for this. My purpose is to contribute by explaining why things are done as the are, in fields I know something about, without making assumptions.

I'm looking forward to the pressure test as well. Next step is dyno tuning for the Staintunes and open airbox mod's. before I lay the hammer down!

Sounds neat. Where can I get one?

Kevin H, hat's off to you as well for your efforts on behalf of Guzzidom. There's always a danger of misunderstanding in purely written communication. I think some of that occurred here, but enough said. Some good things came out of this, from my perspective. I'm sure many appreciated reading the background experiences of those who shared that. I certainly did. There is one thing I would like cleared up by yourself or anyone else that knows the specifics. I recall reading about a "flag" in the mapping which was described as the ECU interpreting everything below a particilar TPS voltage as "idling". I'm not exactly sure what that means. One possibility is that the amount of fuel delivered per cylinder pulse is the same regardless of TPS voltage below that "idling" TPS voltage threshhold. If that is the case, it seems to me that at a constant RPM, because the amount of air delivered (i.e. vacuum) is the same whether the throttle plates are open more and the bypasses less, or the reverse, the mixture would not change. It also indicates that if one adjusts for a lower RPM, mixture might change, depending on whether the fuel mapping reflects simply the amount of fuel per pulse, or is also a function of RPM. Do you or anyone reading this know which it is?

That's a substantial difference. I'm glad to hear that. In my opinion, the ECU should have the most consistent reading of cylinder temperature possible and any problems with mixture should be dealt with in the mapping. How did you measure the temperature? I have the brass insert as well, with copper anti seize paste inside. The brass insert I received had several machined grooves in it. It looked like it was intended to increase heat transfer to the air. Since that is exactly the opposite of my plan, I first wrapped it with aluminum foil tape. It's the kind used on flue pipe ducting for furnaces. Pretty neat stuff, and it looks good, too.

[quote name='tmcaf

Here are pix of the tipover valve layout and the splice I put in to make tank removal easier. You can see the two hose clamps I used on the brass male to male hose barb connector. It's in the center of the picture, just below the gas hose with the red plastic "quick" disconnect. Hope this helps.

Great! I know the Orange Top diner. If you're coming west from there, we could also meet in Edenville at the Country Dream just north of county route one on at the intersection with Blooms Corners Road. This Sunday, the Polar Bear Club meets in Port Jervis. I plan on getting over there late morning. I'll find out where it is and send you an email.

Since this initial measurement, I have been refilling with 4 quarts with filter change. A Roper plate was just installed, and I thought it worthwhile to post a picture with dipstick screwed in. Looks like there is plenty of room for four quarts and more.

I have truly enjoyed this forum more than any other. I find reasons to check it 3-4 times a day. I'm really addicted to the comaraderee, exchange of suggestions, information, tips, etc. That's on top of the bike's design and character, which I am enthralled with. I'm actually happy it isn't perfect as it comes from the factory. It gives me the opportunity to work on it with the skillful guidance from others that have gone before me in the quest to make the bike perfect. That makes it more my personal bike and friend. Love the way it runs and rides, too! I first decided I wanted a Guzzi in 1969, and I'm sorry it took so long. Getting familiar with how it works while fixing the few defects it has, which are all really minor as far as I am concerned, builds my confidence it will not let me down out on the road.

Here Here! Here's to Todd and Ed. Thanks for your dedication and generosity. Keep up the good work!

"Profits are the applause of happy customers", anonymous.

An update on the turns: I just changed my filter yesterday, as it happens. I use the Purolator L10241. Its gasket design permits 1 and 1/8 turns from first contact, and even more. At that point it's really tight, and this definitely requires a filter wrench. You will need a wrench to get it off next time as well. When you buy a filter, make sure you get the exact right size sheet metal socket to fit it. In taking off the previous filter, which had been put on the same way, it was found still to be very tight. There are sockets made for two different sizes. I purchased one of these, and found that the smaller sized option on it would not grip the filter well enough. I had to take off the sump and use my old adjustable filter wrench. I now have the correct size one so the next time, I won't have to remove the sump. Other filter designs may not permit that many turns, or even the 3/4 absolute minimum turns before they get really tight. It depends on the gasket design. The UFI filter has a torque spec on it. Its gasket design does not permit as many turns as the other alternatives. If you are using the UFI, my suggestion is to ignore the torque spec, and use the turns method as is specified by every other filter ever seen by yours truly. If you really want to go by the torque method, it is a good idea to use the hose clamp for insurance. IMHO

Maybe so. The original fitting on my bike was copper where it screwed into the cylinder, but plastic for the sensor holder. This construction indicates an attempt to get good thermal conduction to the cylinder, while insulating from the cooler air around it. It makes sense that the cooler the sensor is, the richer the ECU would go to compensate. Are you still using the original fitting, or the brass replacement?

Also read the thread on filter tightening in the How To section. The Purolator equivalent is L10241.

Yes, I believe you would have to add length to the portion of the hose that goes between the tank and the Tipover valve. You might also have to add length to the portion of the hose that goes between the Tipover valve and canister. I think it would be possible to avoid kinking the hose if you route it carefully. It has a small diameter compared to its outside diameter, so it should easy to avoid kinking. This type of hose is readily available at auto parts stores. It may be that no one else has come up with this analysis and therefore there are no pictures out there. Later this week, when my camera is back in service, I'll take a picture of a diagram for you.

There's a fairly large network of dealers willing to rent Harleys. Going rate is around $130/day, so it ain't cheap. I think there might also be a network for BMW's.