Ryland3210

If Moto Guzzi intended the 3.5 liters to be the amount of oil to put in the bike after draining oil and changing the filter, AND if they intended the dipstick to be carefully held at a 45 degree angle while resting it on the threads instead of screwing it in, THEN the full mark is close to the 3.5 liter capacity. However, my manual says it should be measured with it screwed in. My conclusions were based on careful measurements and considerable theoretical and practical knowledge of engines. Several other members with considerably more experience working on Moto Guzzi's have agreed that the dipstick marks are too low when screwed all the way in. I am not aware of any that disagree. If you trust MG's manual writers to be infallable, then my advice is to keep the oil up to the max mark and avoid fast accelerations.

I'm not Italian, that has been my experience, having done business in most of Europe.

No problem. I just thought John would appreciate the details. He was one of the guys that installed my forward (natural) position foot controls, was pleased with them, and had suggested I look into building center stands. No need for me to re-invent the wheel if there is another good solution. Good aftermarket products make us Guzzi riders happy campers, and that's good for Guzzi too!

Got it! and thanks. Asking Pete to confirm the bottom line while raising the doubt the way I did was my diplomatic way of asking him to eliminate the ambiguity in his message.

Been there, done that. Modifying the bracket was a simple matter of changing the bend angles to lower the offending end. That would be me, Dave. The original thread with all the gory details was "Battery Leaks", do horizontal batteries always leak?

On my '04 Cafe Sport, if a new filter is installed and 3.5 liters added, the level on the dipstick when it is screwed in is 0.69 inches higher than the full mark. At that level, the oil is still 0.23 inches below the sump gasket. I personally fill with 4 US quarts. That still is lower than the gasket. I also adapted a pressure gauge. Under full acceleration in first gear, pressure drops when I reach about 3-4,000 RPM. Pressures does not drop in 2nd or 3rd gear. Therefore, I have no doubt that the pump is starving in first, and will install a Roper plate. Until I do, no more hard accelerations in first.

Yes, this is very important! See the thread "Roper plates and oil level", just a few threads below on this same forum. :!: I refill with 4 US Quarts (including new filter)

Greetings, John On the surface, this kit looks to me like it does the job. I just spotted an advert for it in the MGNOC newsletter. Moto International advertises it at $249. "One model fits the early Sports with 170 rear tire, the other fits later Sports and V11s with 180 tire." Greg's number is 206-297-3822, email is parts@motointernational.com Cheers, John

Thanks. I've added another picture to the first post. It looks like the best place might be an adaptation to the handlebar mounts. I'll keep working on it. There is a regional MGNOC breakfast meeting this Sunday. If I can get away to go there, I'm sure I'll get some ideas by looking at the various models.

Understood, and thanks, Pete. So the bottom line for TPS is 150 mv (even though others have said the target is 150 mv at fully closed) at an idle speed of 1100 to 1200 with vacuum balanced? In an emergency need to replace oil, and your alternatives are cheapo SAE 40 or cheapo 10W40, which is safer in your opinion?

Then your a lucky man with very likely a different seat design than mine. I didn't detect the problem at first. The plastic seat base had some flex in it, and the somewhat flexible metal tang on the front and somewhat flexible battery holder all helped in forcing the seat down. The seat was a little hard to latch, but I didn't think anything of it until I saw battery acid on the rear end after a ride and investigated. After the mods, no problem latching the seat down, or battery leaks.

ZA27 is a high strength die cast alloy, but cannot be used in the hot chamber process. Zinc is deliberately alloyed with aluminum in die cast alloys. It is not considered a contaminent. In many applications, such as side view mirror brackets, conventional zinc alloy was preferred over aluminum for the combination of strength and thinner walls to keep the weight down. For thinner walls, fine detail, high volumes, and where strength is required, zinc die casting often is chosen. My guess is you know all this. I haven't had any locks break lately except due to flimsy steel stampings. I frequently see plastic parts break which I wish were zinc instead.

Yes, there "should" be no difference, but unfortunately for some seats, there IS. It could well be that my '04 Cafe Sport's seat has features on its base that yours does not. Here's what I found with comparisons to my seat (but maybe not yours). Per Yuasa: YTX15L Factory prepared to prevent leaks 175 X 87 X 130 mm 6.875 X 3.437 X 5.125 This one interferes with seat Moto Guzzi service replacement: Yuasa YTZ12S 6.0 X 3.437 X 4.375 This one does not interfere with the rib in the seat plastic, but still is thick enough to possibly interfere towards the front of the bike. Also has reversed polarity, requiring troublesome re-routing of cables. Odyssey: PC545 for side mounting. 6.813 X 3.375 X 5.125 1/6" thinner, better, but still too close PC545MJ with metal jacket for under seat mounting. 7.00 X 3.37 X 5.17 Same thickness as above. 3/16 longer and 1/16 taller. Conclusion: both the Yuasa 15L and Odyssey PC545 and PC545MJ will interfere with the rib in the seat plastic. The YTZ 12S might fit, but might be too thick. I bent the two 90 degree legs toward the front of the bike to lower the bottom of the battery about 5/8" That should eliminate the interference there. I also Dremel tooled the rib in the seat bottom to eliminate a 15mm interference near the positive terminal. Also posted this on the V11 forum.

The picture helps, but I think I need to see a typical bike. By the way, it may look like my pressure guage is attached to the steel wire, but it's not. The gauge is screwed into an aluminum block, which is in turn attached to the existing vibration isolators. The block also is tapped for the hose fitting on the side. The wire clears the gauge and block. I had no idea what the wire was for, but it came in handy to tie wrap the throttle cables to.

Send me a personal message or email with pictures, and I'll give it a shot!

Thanks, Pete. I'm always happy to get it up! Thanks for the encouragement. I understand about roller bearing bottom ends versus journals, etc., saw fit to install a pressure gauge so I can keep an eye on that, and agree with all you say, but I have no experence with the combination of air bleeds/throttle stop/TPS setting relating to increasing idle speed. I recall reading elsewhere that the TPS voltage should be set to 150mv at fully closed. I don't mind checking this again, but why should that calibration change just because I increase idle speed. What I need is a simple primer on the procedure, if that's practical. I'd appreciate your help on that, but if it's really complex to summarize, I could research the forum-perhaps you or Rathethack could point me in the right direction. Meantime, not to worry. I learned about the clutch issue from your earlier advice, knew about the plain bearing lubrication issue, so I've been using the "choke", which I understand is nothing more than a fast idle device, to keep the revs up at 1100-1200 indicated. It sounds about right, but I'll check with a tach meter as Dave suggests.

I've read about questionable tach readings before, hence the "indicated" in my message. Thanks for the reminder. I'll check it with my tach meter.

About $125 US, if I get 10 or more people willing to commit. That includes the glycerin filled gauge and all the other parts mentioned in my initial post with instructions. No special tools required, and installation is easy. The tank does not have to be removed for installation.

Not all seats have the same bottoms. In my case, it was quite a large interference, enough to cause a seal failure at the battery terminal, and I only weigh 143 pounds. It was one of my posts which described how I modified the bracket as well as the seat. If requested, I can dig out the pictures and description from my files.

Hey,Len, that looks great! Where can I get one? I've seen these on other bikes, but yours must have the right thread, etc. Yes, I've considered that, and have experimented with trying to measure with the bike on the sidestand. This might be fine if the dipstick were on the other side, but it's problematic the way it is, with the dipstick already at a 45 degree angle, plus the tilt of the bike itself. The advantage of the guide tube is that I could easily unscrew it while on the sidestand wipe off the oil. Then I only have to hold the bike vertical for a second or two while I put the dipstick in and out to get the reading.

Many of us have experienced low oil pressure and warning lights turning on under hard acceleration. That hasn't happened on my bike. However, I use a higher oil level than the dipstick full mark. I decided to determine my own oil level when I read threads about different interpretations on how to use the dipstick markings, Pete Roper's comments on pump starvation and his sloppage plate solution. Pete recommends a level just below the plate, which is considerably higher on the dipstick than the full mark, even if one does the measurement with the dipstick resting on its threads, rather than screwed in. Anyway, I always like watching oil pressure on anything I drive for many reasons, and decided to adapt one to my bike. I found that under maximum acceleration, even though the light does not go on, pressure drops in first gear, but not in second or third. That's with an oil level 1 inch above the dipstick full mark, measured with it screwed in. That convinced me of the value of Pete's sloppage plate, even at optimum oil levels. Here are pictures of the installation of the gauge: I am willing to make a kit consisting of the port adapter, gauge mount, glycerin filled gauge, hose fittings, SS screws, and hose over rated for the pressures and temperatures involved. It is a bolt-on kit for bikes with the instrument panel like the one on my '04 Cafe Sport. For mounting elsewhere, the gauge mount has provision for two M6 screws. Anyone out there interested? Let me know.

Hi Pete, As delivered, my bike idles at an indicated 600-700 ROM, when warmed up on a 90 degree day. Oil pressure drops to 12-15 psi. I'm using 20W50 Shell Rotella. Is that enough pressure, or should I increase idle RPM? Thanks, John

I cannot say whether you would have to modify the seat, there are different designs. If there is an interference, it is definitely worth fixing. It's not good to have your body weight resting on a battery, regardless of brand. If you have to modify the seat, it's really not difficult, the dremel cuts through the plastic easily. I also had to bend the battery holding bracket to lower the front end, but that was easy. If need be, I can email you pictures of my modifications. The 12 in the Yuasa model number is related to amp-hour capacity, which is less than the 15. If you go with the smaller battery, consider the reduced starting capacity. With Yuasa batteries, "factory prepare" is recommended by Yuasa for horizontal applications. What it means is that they are careful about initial charging to avoid overheating and/or overpressurizing the sealed battery. Maximum charging rate is 1/10 of the amp-hour rating. If charged too quickly by a dealer, seals can be damaged, cauing the battery to leak. When I received my factory prepared battery, it was about 70% charged. Just to be safe, I charged it to 100% (not more) at 1/20 the amp-hour rate. It has been reliable and leak free since installation.

That's good news about the Roper Plate built-in guide. One of the practical problems with my black plastic cheapo OEM dipstick, is that it is difficult to read the level, and not because the oil is black! It's clean. By the time I screw it in and out, oil wicks up and blurs the line. Now you might say, why don't I use the method of measureing without screwing it it, but I've covered the disadvantages of that before. It's cumbersome, balancing the bike vertically with one hand, while screwing the dipstick all the way in and out, then looking at it, trying to see the line. I'm really not getting obsessive about this, although it may seem so. When taking measurements for broadcast, I want to be certain to convey reliable data. Having done that, and established how much oil to put in when changing it, and having an accurate level to go by, I'm in a position to make quick checks from time to time. I never worried to this extent about oil levels before, and didn't bother to add oil to a vehicle until it dropped to the add oil mark, but with all the damage done to Guzzi's I've read about in the forum, and cautions about keep it up to the full mark, it has my attention. I have an affinity for things mechanical, and enjoy taking especial care of the vital fluids that have so much to do with longevity. I've already sketched an adapter for the dipstick with a guide tube feature. The existing level marks on the dipstick would correspond to the proper levels when screwed in. It would also provide quick, accurate readings for routine checks by inserting it into the adapter without screwing it in (of course while visually taking into account the corresponding level difference). Maybe this is one of those projects that will never see any further use beyond my own, but I think I'll do it anyway, if only for my own convenience and peace of mind.