Ryland3210

I installed the Buell units for about $11 each, for the complete assemblies. The only mod required was to drill out the existing mounting hole with a 3/8" drill, to fit the larger Buell mounting thread. If I ever receive the OEM signals ordered 7 months ago, I can install those in the somewhat larger mounting hole with no problem. I really like the flex stalks and personally prefer the amber colored plastic covers better than the yellow bulbs as originally supplied.

Thanks for the info. on Guzzi construction. Ball and roller bearings do reach "extreme" pressures at the line contact point, but not the sliding motion of hypoids. I suspect moly disulfide works well in hypoids because it helps reduce friction and wear in shear regimes, but is pushed aside in the straight compression rolling motion of ball and roller bearings. As far as clogging filters is concerned, that should not be an issue. According to the particle size spec on the additive I purchased, it flows right through the relatively large pores of the filter element. But my own conclusion at this time is that the risk of high temperature breakdown in the engine (which I have no real data on, just the fear of the unknown) of the additive outweighs the potential gain. Teflon particulate additives to reduce engine friction have been around along time, and we know carbon tetraflouride has a temperature rating far higher than combustion engines.

Thanks for the education.

My purpose in the question was simply to learn something. I don't have a problem to fix. I've never heard of anyone using moly additives in engines either, but thought someone might have some knowledge of why/why not. Engines with ball or roller bearings have the potential for benefit from extreme pressure additives. I don't know about my Sport, but my Norton and Harley both used ball and roller bearings. I just have a habit of seeking the best way to do anything for long term life. I admit sometimes I can be obsessive about that.

Thanks for all the replies. I learned a lot from all, and all have good points. Sounds like Moly additive belongs in the category of "cheap insurance". I'll add it to the trans next time I change the oil, and definitely to my Venture's final drive. Any of you have any comment on using it for engine oil?

I can't resist telling my knee down story: 30 years ago, 30 miles/hour on my Honda XL250, familiar hairpin curve, hangin' that knee out racing style. Oops, leaves! Bike slides out, knee hits the ground. No pain, no bruise, no abrasion on my jeans, but snapped a ligament in my knee clean off. Knee surgery, screw to reattach ligament. 1 year on crutches, 1 year with cane, 8 years to get the knee straightened out. Last year, knee blows up with swelling while hiking the Himalayas. Surgery finds screw is loose, puncturing veins, just missing arteries, which would have killed me in a couple of minutes. The ligament attachment never worked, so I've lived without it for 30 years. Still don't have one, but at least the screw is gone. With today's better surgical techniques, I was on my feet within 24 hours. In all those years, I kept on riding dirt and street. FWIW I might slide my butt out on a corner, but you won't ever find me hanging my knees out again.

Hi Al, I just received Centauro controls from Italy, thanks to a friend I have there. I ran out of patience with the U.S. dealers hamstrung by distribution problems. Unfortunately, these are brand new from Moto Guzzi, but the quality is very disappointing. The shift lever is a very poor quality die casting, with several voids due to the metal and/or die not being hot enough or insufficient injection power. An attempt was made to cover this up by aggressively sand blasting it. The porosity and voids are plentiful enough that I have doubts about the strength of the part! I supply controls to die casters worldwide, and I none of my customers would ship this part, not even the Indians. The price, 132 Euros for a part with a manufacturing cost of less than 5 bucks, adds insult to injury. Buyer beware even from the OEM. The foot peg bracket certainly looks strong enough, since it is made of steel, but the finish is crude at best. The quality of these parts is truly inferior in comparison to the fine parts that came with my Cafe Sport. I like the change in position, but at $470 for the two levers and two brackets, for parts that should have been rejects, it is a ripoff in my opinion.

I'm curious why MG specs the moly additive for the rear, but not for the trans. My new Cafe Sport has 120 miles on it, and misses shifts if I'm lackadaisical. Never had that problem with my Norton and Hondas, so I'm surprised. Any comments on adding it to the trans?

I just attempted to install the YTX15L supplied by the dealer to replace the leaking YTX15L-BS. By accident, I noticed marks on the seat bottom that looked like interference from the battery. Sure enough, there is minimal clearance with the battery's bottom towards the front of the bike. There is also a rib on the left side of the seat that interferes about 15 mm near the battery's positive terminal. I installed the seat, and felt the battery with one hand while putting just my other hand's pressure on the seat. I could feel the battery move down as I put only about 5 kg on the seat! Now I am wondering whether the battery supplied with the bike leaked because of my body weight being transferred right to the battery. Luckily I found this before riding the bike. Rather than go through the whole process of finding a third battery that would be small enough to fit, I modified the battery support bracket to lower the bottom of the battery. I did this by bending the two "Z" shaped parts in two places, using a vice. Each of the four original 90 degree bends was straightened to about 120 degrees. This lowered the battery's bottom about 15mm. I used a Dremel tool to cut the plastic rib out of the seat to eliminate the other interference near the battery's top. The same problem would exist with the Odyssey PC545. The service replacement suggested by Moto Guzzi is the YTZ12S, which is smaller. It probably clears the rib, but it just as thick as the other alternatives, so the bracket modification would probably be necessary to be safe.

I just attempted to install the YTX15L supplied by the dealer to replace the leaking YTX15L-BS. By accident, I noticed marks on the seat bottom that looked like interference from the battery. Sure enough, there is minimal clearance with the battery's bottom towards the front of the bike. There is also a rib on the left side of the seat that interferes about 15 mm near the battery's positive terminal. I installed the seat, and felt the battery with one hand while putting just my other hand's pressure on the seat. I could feel the battery move down as I put only about 5 kg on the seat! Now I am wondering whether the battery supplied with the bike leaked because of my body weight being transferred right to the battery. Luckily I found this before riding the bike. Rather than go through the whole process of finding a third battery that would be small enough to fit, I modified the battery support bracket to lower the bottom of the battery. I did this by bending the two "Z" shaped parts in two places, using a vice. Each of the four original 90 degree bends was straightened to about 120 degrees. This lowered the battery's bottom about 15mm. I used a Dremel tool to cut the plastic rib out of the seat to eliminate the other interference near the battery's top. The same problem would exist with the Odyssey PC545. The service replacement suggested by Moto Guzzi is the YTZ12S, which is smaller. It probably clears the rib, but it just as thick as the other alternatives, so the bracket modification would probably be necessary to be safe.

Contrarian viewpoint: I installed modulators front and rear. Love the rear. Not the front. The first time I used the front was as I approached a side street with a car waiting at its stop sign on the right side. I was on the main road with the right of way. There was a car in front of me, signalling to turn right. As he did, I flipped on the modulated high beam. Instead of taking notice of my approach, the dirver at the stop sign interpretted the flashing as a "go-ahead" signal, and pulled out right in front of me. I stopped just in time, and the driver gave me a "what the hell are you doing?!" gesture. She was absolutely right. I never used the headlight modulator again. When I thought about it, I realized how many reasons people have to flash high beams. I'll stick to the horn, and always assume the other guy doesn't see me unless we make eye contact, and even then still be wary.

My bike came with the YTX15L-BS, which is the same battery as the YTX15L, just dealer prepared. They do fit my Cafe Sport, though slightly larger than the tray. As long as the Odyssey PC545 receives its initial charge properly, it is the better choice in my opinion. If you can get the metal jacket version, PC545MJ, that is better yet, and still fits under the seat.

As an alternative to the Yuasa YTZ12S, consider the YTX15L. It comes factory prepared to prevent leaks which are likely in tilted applications according to Yuasa's website. It has the terminals in the opposite direction as the 12S, so does not need cable re-routing, and has more amp-hour capacity. The 12S is the same thickness as the 15L, but is smaller than the tray. Whatever sealed battery you use, be careful to avoid initially charging at high rates if you want long term life and wish to avoid leaks. I also prefer the PC545ML, but my dealer elected to replace the leaking, dealer prepared YTX15L-BS with the factory prepared YTX15L recommended by Yuasa. It was on his nickel, so I have no complaint. For more details, see the topic about Battery Leaks.

I'm happy to report a YTX15L arrived today, as promised by the dealer. He said it comes uncharged, and I should charge it at 6 amps! I reminded him that the recommended charging current is 1.3 amps for 5-10 hours (it's in bold print on the battery label). I'm happy they didn't try to charge it for me at 1/2 the amp-hour capacity of the battery. From everything I've learned during this ordeal, that's a very bad idea, especially for the initial charging of the battery. I would not be surprised if that kind of fast charge caused the first battery to leak, as I told them before. I guess they still haven't learned, in spite of my conversations with them, and written memo's. The voltage as received was 12.0 volts, which means it was about 10% charged at the factory. My plan is to initially charge it at 1/4 amp for two to three days with a limited voltage before installing it. I'll stop when the voltage reaches 12.85, measured after removing the surface charge. The bike's charging system can take it from there, and it should be in fine condition to accept a recharge surge after starting the bike without overheating or excessive pressure.

Very interesting. The 12S is smaller than the 15L, except for thickness under the seat, which is the same. Amp hours are less, and the terminal polarity is reversed. I still favor the 15L with the terminals ending up on top in the right place, and more amp-hours. My guess is that the 12S is cheaper to the dealer than the 15L because it is available from Yuasa instead of through Bombardier, the distributor. It's smaller than the tray, so I hope the hold down straps are tight enough. My dealer also has commented that the batteries that came with the bikes in the past were "s__t", and he has had to replace many of them. I suppose he means the ESA's in the service note. My new battery is supposed to arrive today. I'll let you know what it is. I'm expecting a YTX15L, factory prepared.

My dealer finally agreed to replace the battery after I shipped it to him, made two additional calls to argue the point that it should be covered under warrantee. He told me he was trying to get MG to reimburse him. When I said what happens if they don't, he actually complained that he didn't make much money on selling me the bike. He was prepared to make me pay for a battery which leaked the first time I rode the bike! I had to remind him that warrantee coverage is not contingent on the profits made by the dealer. My research indicates the Hawker/Odyssey dry cell types are more reliable and have considerably more cranking capacity. I understand the factory issued a service note recommending defective batteries be replaced with them. In spite of this, he refused to replace it with the Odyssey dry cell type. He insisted on replacing it with another Yuasa. Now, I've had good results with Yuasa's for decades, so I've been thinking his people gave it too fast a charge or overfilled it with acid, or didn't seal it properly. However, I decided to look up the battery on Yuasa's website. Lucky I did, because Yuasa states that the YTX15L BS which came with the bike leaks in tilted applications. Instead they recommend the YTX15L, which is factory prepared and, in North America, must be purchased from Bombardier. I told the dealer about this and faxed him a copy of the Yuasa webpage. They are ordering several of these and I am expected to get one next week. The bottom line is, my number one choice is still the Odyssey PC545 MJ, second choice is the Yuasa YTX15L, factory prepared.

Thanks for the good suggestion on the pads. I wonder if they are saturated with baking soda-the traditional homespun remedy for neutralizing acid. More good news: The Hawker/Odyssey has the positive and negative terminals reversed from the Yuasa the dealer supplied. The Yuasa terminals ended up on the bottom, closest to the tray, whereas the Odyssey's will be on the top, so even if there is a leak around the terminals (as was reported on this forum earlier due to suspected overtightening), less of the acid would leak out. Now that I've discovered the terminal orientation issue, I'm all the more convinced the dealer simply picked a battery that would fit, and quick charged it So the pads might be quite effective. They look about 1/16" thick: Do you know if that's about right? I want to be sure there is clearance for the battery.

Man, am I glad I take a random look at this forum from time to time. The silicone seal fillet sounds like cheap insurance to me. I just bought my Cafe Sport. It hasn't been in the rain or washed yet. I'll put some gray seal across that hole before I ride it again.

Remember that to measure the voltage to determine the percentage of charge, to eliminate the "surface charge" which elevates the voltage for a while just after charging. Usually this dissapates by itself in from 4 to 12 hours due to internal current leakage. Alternatively, you can give a battery a load of 1/3 of its amp-hour capacity for 5 minutes and then wait for 5 to 10 minutes, and then measure its voltage. The voltage corresponding to 100% charge depends on temperature. For each 10 degrees Fahrenheit electrolyte temperature above 80 degrees, subtract 0.024 volts to the manufacturer's specified voltage for the correct reading you should get on the voltmeter. Likewise, if your battery is cooler than 80, add to the mfr's spec voltage to determine the correct voltmeter voltage. For example, suppose the battery is at 100 degrees and the mfr. spec is 12.80 volts. When the battery is fully charged, it should read 12.80 - 2 X 0.024=12.752 volts. Here is an approximate guide to state of charge versus voltage for a mfr. spec of 12.65 volts at 80 degrees and 100% full charge: 12.65 at 100% 12.45 at 75% 12.24 at 50% 12.06 at 25% 11.89 discharged More recommendations: discharged gel cells should be charged over a 20 hour period or more, but never above the mfr's recommended current level, nor above 14.1 volts. This means that standard deep cycle chargers used to recharge wet batteries cannot be used for gel cells. They will shorten battery life or cause thermal runaway. Based on my research, my conclusion is that the type of battery charger for dry cell and sealed batteries is especially important. For example, the voltage should automatically be reduced to 13.2 volts once the battery is fully charged to avoid damaging overcharging. How do you know when this happens? I suppose you have to keep measuring and calculating or have a very intelligent charger. I hope this info. helps you on your way.

Interesting. Either way, both are thinner than the 3.44 thick Yuasa supplied by the dealer. Thanks for the tip on the cardboard/plasticene test. Luckily, the dealership owner took my umpteenth call and appears ready to take action. I've shipped the battery to him so he can seek recourse from the Yuasa rep. I'm hoping he will ship me the MJ version and let me do the charging. Any ideas on connecting a hose to the tray to drain off any accidental future acid? The hose and making a hole in the tray is the easy part, but finding a way to seal hose to tray so that every drop is drained out could be tricky.

In theory, the chemistry (lead-sulfuric acid in this case) and temperature governs the optimum charging voltage regardless of battery construction. I luckilly have access to high precision Hewlett Packard power supplies, so I plan on setting the voltage limit according to my Yamaha Venture's detailed battery charging chart, and the current limit a little lower than the battery's specified charging current. A web search under Odyssey Batteries found several sources for me. According to Odyssey's website, the width (vertical thickness under the seat) of the battery is the same for metal jacket and non-metal jacket, so I'm going for the extra protection of the PC 545 MJ. If you look at the picture, that makes sense, because the orange metal jacket fits just under the battery's plastic flange. I'm happy to say the dealer's new service manager seems enthusiastic to help. He actually asked me what battery was in the bike, and which battery was the correct one. So far, so good. Thanks, guys, for all the helpful information.

More info from a friendly and knowledgable local dealer: According to the local dealer (not the one that sold me the bike), the Yuasa YTX15L-BS battery, although a sealed type, is not the type supplied with the bike. It is not a "dry" cell. Instead it is filled with electrolyte upon installation. I brought the battery to the local dealer to inspect. It is an aftermarket type, most likely installed by the dealer because it was an '04 leftover and the original battery was either not charged properly and went dead. It's probable the battery was filled with electrolyte and quick charged. Even if it survived that, if the battery was only partly charged, the next time the bike was run, the high charging current from the bike's alternator would have vastly exceeded the 1.3 amp charging current specified in bold print on the battery's label. The buildup of heat and pressure resulting accounts for the leak. Prior to use, these batteries should be slow charged, which can take a day or more. If the dealer is in a hurry, or jump starts the bike, these kinds of problem can result. The slow charge is also necessary for the liquid electrolyte to turn into a gel. According to him the Odyssey dry cell batteries require as much as 2-3 days to fully charge initially, but then are trouble free for many years. Eight or more is not unusual. Most importantly, he says Moto Guzzi put out a service bulletin to use Odyssey dry cells when a battery needs replacement. It appears the PC 545 or PC 545MJ both fit my Cafe Sport. The MJ refers to the orange metal jacket enclosing the battery. Evidently the MJ version is for under seat locations. Selling prices range from $78.88 to 99.99 on the web. I now will persuade the dealer that sold me the bike to supply an Odyssey replacement. I will ask him to ship it to me uncharged so I can take my time and do it right.

I have a brand new Cafe Sport supposedly came with a new battery. It's been ridden once since I took delivery at the end of December, about 80 miles, then stored for the past two months. When I went to recharge the battery, I was astounded to see the battery is installed laying down! I noticed a pool of acid in the plastic tray under it. I truly dislike the whole idea. With the plates horizontal, the debris that flakes off over time will not fall to the bottom, but instead have a better chance of draining the battery and shortening its life. On top of that, the idea of dripping battery acid on the bike's innards makes me cringe. Is this something I'm going have to keep on top of forever, or is the battery defective?

I have been trying diligently to buy some Molykote A specified by MG for the rear transmission, with no luck. Molykote is a Dow Corning trade name, so you would think it should be easy. After much research, I finally have a lead on MO additive. Dow Corning makes an additive called Molykote M for gear oil, for the purpose of wear reduction. Also supposedly prevents galling during initial run in. That could explain why my new Cafe Sport came with Molykote type A additive specified for the rear transmission gear oil. The website does not include Molykote Type A among its products. It looks like Molykote M is the right stuff. I expect some in within the next couple of weeks, and will share what I learn.

No, I didn't. I generally don't keep track of what's around unless ready to buy, then go nuts with research. Looks like something I'd love to ride!