docc

My cheap infrared temp reader is only accurate to +/- 4ºF, but I wanted to bring these two posts together as it appears we have some newly available CTI relays available to be evaluated and operating temperatures have proven revealing.

I'll have a set (5) of the CTI with 1.2 watt coils from DigiKeyUS fairly soon, I hope. They do not have a minimum order and the shipping (US Postal Service) was $4.95US. So, $17US for 5 relays. I'll cut one open and compare to the unobtanium OMRON G8HE internals. I don't have the capabilities that Ryland did to test "bounce" and record data points with an oscilloscope, but will do what inspection, observation, and measuring that can be done. I have examined the Data Sheets of Panasonic, GEI, CTI, and OMRON relays. They are, unfortunately, not produced to a strict standard. OMRON clearly differentiates between "switching" (inrush?) current and "continuous" current ratings. Others do not make this distinction and their relay rating can appear higher than it deserves ("Switching/Inrush" ratings are always higher than "continuous current" ratings). I can also install the CTI 1.2W in my Sport's most demanding Position#5 and take infrared temperature readings. This method has been very revealing as to how much heat a substandard relay will produce. This along with accurately weighing the relay can be helpful compared with observations previously contributed on the "Best Relay" thread.

Contact force applied by the coil is what I am thinking, yet it primarily shows the power consumed by the coil. I am not at all sure whether there would be any practical difference between 1.2, 1.5W, and 1.7W coils. Bounce, perhaps?

Ebay sellers are always a moving target, just as the "NLA" OMRON G8HE has become. Get 'em while you can! (If you can.) Good news, our member @p6x has pursued his European connections to find a promising Micro-ISO relay alternative with High Current (30/20) ratings and a promising Data Sheet . . . along with availability and no large minimum quantity orders . . .

Will the "1.2 coil power" work for us (instead of the 1.5 ? The 1.2W is available.

This development is soooooo promising! Thank you, @p6x ! DigiKeyUS was such a reliable source for the OMRON G8HE before "onlinecomponents", then they both went "cold" with no equivalent product to offer. Welldone, Sir, welldone, indeed!

Thank you, @p6x, for the great find! I have 5 of the SPDT, 1.2watt coil, resistor relays on the way from DigiKeyUSA. (The 1.5 watt coils do not appear available, with or without the suppression resistor, either in the US or from Europe). With taxes and shipping, $3.40US each. Once here, I will perform the Ryland dissection next to our treasured, but NLA, OMRON G8HE and report the manufacturer's country of origin . . .

Also, do the CIT relays have a built-in surge suppression resistor? EDIT: Ah, only if there is an "R" at the end of the number. Digikey USA shows 802 of these in stock, $191US each . . . https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/cit-relay-and-switch/A11CSQ12VDC1-2R/12503244?s=N4IgTCBcDaIIIEYEGEDKBFBYBqARZCAdGAEogC6AvkA

DigiKey thought I might also be interested in this relay (173 in stock, USA): Same capacity ratings, what is different? "Coil power" is reduced from 1.5 Watts to 1.2 Watts. Is this significant for our applications? (If I am reading the OMRON G8HE Data Sheet correctly, the OMRON coil "rated power consumption" is 1.694 Watts (stronger coil?) https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/cit-relay-and-switch/A11CSQ12VDC1-2/12503242

DigiKey US, $1.91US each. On both US and Europe DigiKey, I see "0 in stock" and "Manufacturer Standard Lead Time 20 weeks."

So this thing is screwed together from, what three or four different bikes?

So, I received my red "7.5mm High Performance" HT wire from O'Reillys. It is decidedly thicker than the factory wires. Rather than "eyeballing" over a steel rule, I took my inch-measure dial caliper to them. Very likely the red factory "spark plug wire" is actually 7mm, not 7.5mm. Has anyone checked availability of the factory part number GU01718330 ?

Looks like a legitimate "high current" Micro-ISO relay! (20/30A) Any information on a source vendor, pricing, and minimum quantities for the Form C/SPDT/ "5-pin" version?

It is almost certainly not a 2002. Besides the numerous features already mentioned that are "pre-V11" the frame does not have the V11 "LongFrame" lower braces. The frame build tag would declare the build date of the frame. It very likely has the "exposed spring driveshaft of the earlier Sport, as well. Soooo many mismatches to be seen. "Where's Waldo?" > Every-damn where! <

Wow. That lady has "been around." 5speed gear box with pre-V11 rear drive. 2002 LeMans body work, but looks like a pre-V11 1100 Sport-i in its bones . . .

That relay could check out! Yes, let us agree that "two vs three prongs" is what most of us have been calling "4-pin/blade" (Form A) and 5-pin/blade (Form C) which include the additional two connections for the relay's coil.

Please, again, "Switching Current" is not a measure of "continuous current" (as in: we expect relay contacts to operate our fuel injection and ignition >continuously< through N.O. relay contacts).

Hmm, actually, if I understand correctly: V11 Relay Position #5 (Fuel Injection/Ignition) is the most demanding, High Current position (N.O.). The Position #1 (Start Relay) is most compromised in the N.C. (weak) contact state in the early V11 wiring configuration. Later V11 wiring stressed the Ignition Switch more. I realize the "Best Relay" thread is very long and starts with only a question, but the process of discovery was most revealing . . .

AFAIK, all the "original" relays were Siemens and rated "10/20". The very first dealer support I received on my newly purchased 2000 V11 Sport was a visibly larger Siemens Starter Relay (Position#1). Let's realize that published capacities of available components are no longer "conservative", "proofed" or "ultimate." Ryland's excellent analysis suggests that the GEI (probably also the TYCO, IMO) have been "speculatively" rated.

"Miniaturized package" Yes, indeed, @p6x, if we could fit physically larger relays somewhere below our seat, achieving the higher current ratings would be a non-issue. 30 - 40 amp automotive relays are very common. As long as there is so much space in the engine compartment to mount them. My experience with our V11 is that is very tightly packaged.

Most important to note the rating for "continuous carry current." Form C ("5-pin/blade") is only required for the front relay on our V11 (Position#1/"Start Relay). Form A ("4-pin/blade") can be used in all other positions, but don't count on them as spares to swap into Position#1/Start, if needed. Mark your 4-pin / Form A relays and know they will not function in the Position#1/front/"Form C"/"5-blade"/Start Relay. Yet . . . even if you fit a "good quality" 20 amp/N.O. contacts, of either Form (A or C), to Position#5/the very back/Fuel Injection&Ignition Relay, we are expecting it to handle 22.5 amps (continuous). Pretty sure the "80% Rule" applies? Any electrical (or other) system will fail if continually run at (or over) 100%. My understanding is that any 20 amp circuit should not be expected to carry, reliably, more than 80% of that capacity (16 amps) continuously. Even in household current. True and reliable Micro-ISO relays *honestly* Load Rated (continuous current) at 20 amps for the (weak) N.C. [Normally Closed] contact and 35 amps for the (stronger) N.O. [Normally Open] contact are quite obviously hard to come by in the "Micro-ISO" size our V11 uses.

On that "Max. carrying current" line, slide across to the next column to the right under "12 V DC / 1 Form C" and you will see the 10/20 rating for N.C. and N.O. contacts.

Right, see "2. Specifications, Contact Data, Max. carrying current: N.O. Side: 20 amps, N.C. Side: 10 amps." I'm not seeing a "continuous current" Panasonic Micro-ISO relay rated above 10/20. https://na.industrial.panasonic.com/products/relays-contactors/mechanical-power-relays/lineup/automotive/series/2845

The only Micro-ISO Panasonic relays I have seen posted are Load Rated (continuous current) 10/20A. A true High Current Panasonic (they are "usually" Japanese made) Load Rated 20/35 would be great, methinks! How about a source and a spec sheet? [EDIT: The important rating is not "Nominal Switching Capacity (Resistive Load)", but "Contact Data: Max. Carrying Current".

Definitely: Please note that the OMRON in the analysis was a G8HN (10/20A Rated Load) , not the High Current G8HE (20/35A).