docc

Now I have to measure to the 10th of a mm!

Unfortunately, color changes make the p/n different. Even the early V11 differs between silver (Sport) and black (Rosso Mandello). Oh, no, I am after a resolution of a long, evasive V11 mystery . . .

Thanks, @MartyNZ . . . Just investigating if the internal diameter of the later front driveshaft protection collar changed form the early 65mm . . .

I found this very thought provoking. At first, I disagreed and pondered artists that create for their own edification without regard to anyone's interest in their "art." Yet, I could not think of any artist I know, or have learned of, that wasn't seeking to "push other peoples' buttons " to whatever end; could be enlightenment, could be aggravation. Art is to be evocative/ "pushes buttons." In fact, any artists I know have rather large egos that depend on that evocation.

Does anyone have a loose front driveshaft protection collar from a later V11 LongFrame [eg: 01 35 86 40 ] to measure the inside diameter? My early ShortFrame collar [ GU04358600 ] measures 65 mm . . .

Today is mySport's 23rd anniversary, but too much rain and too many patients to ride. Hopefully Saturday before the heat index goes crazy. I did review my latest maintenance notes. What I am calling my 130,000mile/210.000 km service - The last ten weeks and two thousand miles brought just about every service interval together: tires, all brakes/pads, all hydraulics (including clutch master rebuild), complete "Decent Tune-up" (with a new TPS), tank off with air/fuel filters, oil/filter, and truly-and-actually greased "that farking front U-ee !"

I am certain the #112 O-ring is an approximation for those of us in the SAE world and the actual sensor O-ring is metric and of a particular durometer. I have no way of divining either of those things. It is not beyond Moto Guzzi's manufacturing standards that any particular casting could have enough flaw to fault sealing. Worth a careful inspection of the seating areas of the surface and the bore where the sensor resides . . .

I have tried to think of any artist I have known that did not care about the audience, accolades, or evocation their art might create. It is a compelling concept that "It is art " as soon as the creator means it to be so. Something "created" and meant to evoke (an approval, a response, emotion, criticism, maybe a purchase . . . ). I have seen painters, sculptors, musicians, writers, poets (and yes: industrial arts builders) display their creations and quietly stand back and revel in the unsettled arguments over their effective evocation. Zappa's "music", very intentionally, did this with some of his dystonic, anti-melodic projects. "Art?" He certainly meant it as such. Hunter S. Thompson comes to mind in literature, "Song of the Sausage Creature ." And in painting? Too many culprits to count! Picasso and Dali come readily to mind. From where we stand, using a motorcycle (especially a Moto Guzzi, and most especially a SpineFrame) as a palette for artistic expression is a formula for "unsettled arguments" and evocative emotions . . . "I love it!" "No! It pisses me off" Heh - must be "art ! "

Meme save: ethylene = ethanol =

I can see the point that the technicians having to troubleshoot that wiring harness might not see that as art.

Perhaps I am wrong that the Quota and "EV" V11 could run reliably on US "Regular Gas" (87 octane AKI). I will research my collection of Moto Guzzi Sales Brochures to see where the claimed compression ratio may have changed. Whether that coincided with the oil sprayer change, and how these things were accomplished, could only be divined by our members that have that "inside information" from being certified Moto Guzzi technicians at that time, or others that have had these various V11 (Sport/LeMans) motors apart . . .

So many great replies. We have had so many of these "custom build" topics, but this one grew into a life of its own! I was fortunate to visit the Guggenheim "Art of the Motorcycle " exhibit when they displayed it in Memphis at "The Pyramid ". I am not convinced our wee group that descended upon the exhibit could have been considered Art Aficionados, yet we pored over the exhibit with a passion equal to the highest level enthusiast of the Classic Painters . I love the triad that @Lucky Phil introduced as Design/Engineering /Fabrication , and the extension of that thinking, suggested by @Speedfrog: "If you think of the motorcycle as a blend of this trio of design/engineering/fabrication, it’s fair to say that different people value different ratios of these elements for what represents their ideal motorcycle. " > As far as any particular motorcycle being seen as an object d'art , I submit the time I was saddling up at a coffee shop in the city and some young fellow re-parked his family's car and leapt out to get a close-up look at mySPORT, exuberantly exclaiming, "IS THAT ITALIAN?!? MAN!! THAT IS A WORK OF ART !!!! " No idea who the fellow was or how he might have been trained or educated, but he obviously had good taste! > Exhibit Two: Those various motorcycles that have been displayed in our "lounge rooms " or "dining rooms ." As well as those of us who wish we could if The Minister of Stately Affairs would stand for it . . . As for mySport, she must settle her artly-self on the dais in the footlights of the shop. Long may I devote myself to fabrications that consider her engineering and respect her design ~ ~ ~

Realize that not all "V11" are the same. The V11 Quota and V11 EV do not have the aggressive valve sizes and cam profiles of the V11 Sport/ LeMans. They are likely "Regular Gas" animals . . . I am still interested to see what other Owner's Manual have printed in them. Even to the extent of any mention of ethanol fuels in the last of the V11 LeMans series. Yet, also, I would find it interesting to clarify when (if) the V11 LeMans/Sport compression ratio changed and how that was accomplished (different pistons?). And, did the compression ration change when the " under-piston oil sprayers" were added? My understanding is that was accomplished with a different connecting rod that incorporates channels from the pressurized big ends to orifices that spray the pistons at the top. This is such a rudimentary understanding, I would enjoy a better understanding of how this is done . . .

The reason I discredited the swingarm sticker as a reliable source is that it is not consistent for a label applied to satisfy (US) Federal requirements to display an octane measure (RON) not adopted by the US Federal Government or in use in the USA. It would be interesting for more members to report results from their Owners Manuals . . .

Otherwise, I question whether the minimum octane requirement ever, actually changed across the V1 Sport/LeMans range . . .

Across the board, maybe the operative term is "minimum?"

I say this, rather emphatically, yet wonder : > How did the V11 LeMans/Sport compression ratio actually get changed from early to late motors? > When did the piston oil sprayers get added? > Would the piston oil cooling affect the minimum octane requirement?

I will venture that all V11 Sport/ LeMans (V11 EV etc are a different animal!) run best on 95 RON/ 91 AKI (minimum). And further, that whatever sticker got applied to various US sold V11 LeMans swingarms, they are not a reliable reference, and for US/North America should have read either 95 RON or 91 AKI. We have seen worse translation errors . . .

Wow, but we are using different scales to compare fuel octanes. Like, "I ride around at 100 on the speedo all the time, at 65 degrees." Oh, but that is mixing kilometers per hour with degrees Fahrenheit . . . Not at all like riding 100 mph at 65ºC ! Let's see if we can discern that the actual fuel octane recommendation from the manufacturer may have actually changed from the early V11 (1999-2001) to the later models with the higher compression and piston oil sprayers. My "early" Owners' Manual appears to specify 95 RON (~91 AKI/US) . . .

AFAIK, the heads/valves did not change. But, yes, IIRC, the compression ration increased from 9.5:1 to 9.8:1 (along with the piston oil spray). Your question makes me wonder just how did they change the compression ratio: different head/combustion chamber, or (as I had assumed), a different piston crown . . . This is the first discussion (that I recall) of the possibility the octane requirement may have also changed . . .

Care to add a bit more description, @Hewitte21? Like color? Tire type/age, any accessories added? Second, third, fourth owner?

I quoted my 1999-2001 Owner's Manual language, above (with terminology/formatting questions). That is for the early Sport/Rosso Mandello. These appear to require 91 AKI/ 95 RON. The only major change I can think of in the V11 Sport/LeMans model range that might affect the minimum octane requirement is that late V11 spray oil under the piston crown. I could imagine that cooling effect could lower the octane (anti-knock) requirements on the fuel.

Where is that sticker on your V11, @p6x ? Mine either doesn't have one or it was on the original swingarm . . .

My 2000 V11 Sport Owner's Manual has this awkward jumble: Recommended [fuel]: Supergrade petrol (97 NO-RM/min.) Unleaded Petrol (95 NO-RM/min.) > First of all, I have no idea what "Supergrade" refers to except that it is contrasted with "Unleaded." Is "Supergrade" leaded gasoline? > No mention of ethanol. > It "seems" 95 RON is the manufacturer's recommendation and that converts to ~91 AKI (RON + MON / 2). I found one source that stated 90.25 AKI. I would/ have run 87 AKI "regular" US fuel in a pinch, but would not put heavy loads on the motor (eg: aggressive passing) especially in high ambient/engine temperatures. In "a pinch", I suppose a 2-stroke mix would be okay, but I tried diesel fuel once and didn't get much past pulling away from the pump . . .

The V11 Quota does not appear to have the "wide sump" of the V11 Sport/LeMans. Hard to say if a "wide sump" would clear the Quota's lower frame rails and close-fitting exhaust . . .