docc

Interesting all of the posted serial numbers are 2004. Rare birds indeed. Doubt I'll ever see one.

I found the V11 Workshop Manual "Update" (4/03) here at Teo Lamers in the Netherlands. No one has come forward to say there have been any other Workshop Manuals than the 03/01 and the 04/03 update. Still have not heard back from sp838 on his source material on the 26˚ frame change.

After 2 1/2 years and almost 3,000 views, I hope this posting has been helpful to viewers. I admit, I refer back to it to keep my Sport up to the mark! I realize, though, that the thread is locked. So, please, if you have any suggestions, corrections, or additions please PM me on my profile. "We few, we happy few, we band of brothers!"

Electromagnetic pulse?

I was sorry to see nogbad get fed up and go. We've had some low times here on the forums. Crappymoderators. We're lucky to still have this site (thanks, Jaap!) and some really great people that hang out here. Still looking forward to riding with more of you!

Hubert, I remember not to simply leave my AGM battery on a "trickle charger." But what do think is the best way to keep it "alive" during the long winter months? *shock * treatment?*

Not sure where to get any replacement parts. As for oil, there have been some extensive discussions about this, but the threads are not high quality from a technical standpoint. Certainly, be sure your springs are specific for your weight and the nature of your riding. Largely, that means some stiffer springs unless you are around 165 pounds in full kit. Springs are cheap and easy to change. Traxxion Dynamics even supplied tubular aluminum spacers that were perfect for my application. The built-in high speed damping on the Marzocchis is pretty harsh and generally does better with a thinner oil, typically 5 wt. But, it's important to know that one company's 5wt is another's 10wt. There are some charts in "centiStokes@100˚C" that differentiate the popular oils. If you're interested, I can post a link (if it's still live). Oil volume is best set by measuring down from the top of the fork versus simply pouring in the prescribed amount by fluid volume. This takes account of the oil that remains in the system and helps prevent the harsh damping that occurs with overfilling. The generally accepted "air gap" is 100mm. If there are six or eight thousand V11 Sports, there are that many ways to go through this set-up process, but gotta start somewhere! IMO, an improved suspension set-up is the #1 best thing you can do for your V11.

The V11 Workshop Manual "update" of 4/03 covering the MY2003 does not appear to have the dimensioned drawings of the frame as does the 3/01 manual. Neither does the fork diagram dimension the offset of the forks to the steering head. Is there a V11 workshop manual before 3/01, or between 3/01 and 4/03?

Heh-heh, and within a day, Macguzzi resurfaces! I've PM'd him offline for a room at The Home. And wee spot in The Garage.

I tried measuring my wheelbase and it's a . . . er, well: difficult. The factory measurements are also in the "loaded" state, whatever variables that might entail. Jim, do you have any published wheelbase specification for the Rosso Mandello? Or even a castor (rake) spec? I can't find anything.

Field was adamant that the later triple clamps (of the early Sport series) were "bored off axis" one half degree. While this would effectively increase rake (slightly) and decrease trail (slightly), he made no mention of changes to offset (the distance the center of the forks is set ahead of the center of the steering stem). From the engineering drawings and a couple preliminary measurements, it appears the canted/off-axis clamps may have also increased offset around 5mm which would negate the change in trail or maybe even increase trail. Perhaps a few of you would be willing to post your year model/approx serial number, upper clamp part number, axle nut or none, and measure the offset.

[EDIT: chamberlin scanned an entire sales brochure that we are trying to save as an archived file here.] Cool! Nicely done! True, I have that one and also true the 'purple' Sport is a 2002 (no front cross-over). The 2004 sales catalog pictures your gray Sport, but it's one of those mini side views. The 1999-2001 Green V11 Sport is pictured in two of the 2002 catalogs I have. The best representation of 2002 bikes I have is in a 2001 catalog, which may be accurate for European releases. I agree about categorization by feature set. Camn just sent me some extensive summaries of published specifications and specific brochures on special models. Buddy, we've got our work cut out for us making this both accurate AND concise! Already, we're mining information on two separate threads on two separate sub-forums.

Hi, Steve! Saw your post in classifieds also. No problem cross posting here, but post back when it sells or simply delete your first post on this sub-forum and the thread will fall off. Thanks, docc-tidying-up

Great to see you back around!! Congratulations on the good changes and especially the garage . . . er, I mean, the lady. That's what I meant . . . We Scots-derivatives spilled out across the seas look on admiringly at this time for Scotland. The very best of good fortune for you!

I'm learning that everything I drink is a "session beer . . ."

Regarding the Workshop manual for the early Sport: I see in Section H, page 10, the angle of 25.0˚. Length at the top of the diagram: 767,203 +/- 0,2 and at the bottom of the diagram: 821,384 +/- 0,2 How does that compare to your specifications? (It appears my manual was printed 03/01 if I can presume that is the date appearing very last on the title page. Is it possible your manual is for the US2002 and later braced frame?) Section F, page 28, shows fork offset of 40,5mm, but like you I get a measurement of 44 mm +/- 1. (Hard to measure accurately).

Hey, sp838: SN above or below 113032? Nutted axle? Can you make out the number on the bottom of the upper triple clamp?

I've changed the topic title to attract more information gathering. Once we've mined a goodly portion of the developmental changes, we can amend the FAQ for model year changes. I have Model Year Catalogs from US year 2000 through 2004. Two for 2001 and two for 2002. There are certainly a number of conflicting specifications throughout. Some of this from the difference in model years for Europe and the rest of the world (for example, the LeMans was introduced in the States as a 2002, but I have a 2001 catalog depicting it). This is why I would propose categorizing by Three Generations of the V11. Let's hope it can stay that simple. >All of the castor/rake specs I can find in print show 25˚. I could have sworn the early Sport was 24.5˚, but I can't find it written anywhere. The LeMans appears to be 25˚, but is this true for all models 2002-2004(5)? >Wheelbase is a simple measure and may be helpful. 1st Generation Sports and the Rosso Mandello were said to have 1471mm (57.9inches). But wouldn't the 1/2˚ rake change with the triple clamp revision have changed the wheelbase slightly? (RM and Sports after SN 113032 with "canted" triple clamps) >The LeMans (US2002) brought a revised frame with visible bracing across the lower gearbox, braced subframe structures both front and rear, and a 1490mm wheelbase (58.6 inches). This should include the first year Lemans, Tenni, Scura, and Sport Naked. These bikes are also characterized by white face Veglia gauges, 'fuzzy' engine paint, and no front crossover exhaust pipe. Neither the Tenni nor the Scura are shown in my catalogs. >Catalog of 2003 shows wheelbase of 58.6 inches and 2004: 59 inches. Models looks identical with the addition of the Coppa Italia paint scheme to the Cafe Sport in '04. Were they just rounding off for the North American market in the 2004 catalog? (These are V11 with black face ITI gauges and a cross-over front pipe.) If you all will please help edit this information, it would be most appreciated!

So, Z, how's the panhandling coming along?

[A cross post from "Early special V11" on the 24/7 V11 sub-forum summarizing a few of Greg Foield's previous posts in this thread regarding the change of triple clamps]: A post by Greg Field regarding the change of triple clamps, but not just for the Rosso Mandello, but by serial number: "What is meaningful is a discussion of triple clamps. Early (to frame 113032) bikes used triple clamps with 1/2 degree steeper rake. It is these that show the greatest tendency to instability, though even the later ones sometimes do, too." With this clarification: "I'm pretty damn sure the steering angle on the frame was unchanged from beginning through the last pre-LeMans bike. All red-colored frames have the same part number. The part number was changed for the Rosso Mandello because it is coated black. The angle change was made in the triple clamps at the frame number listed earlier." And further clarification here, on post#164: " The later triple clamps include a 1/2-degree of cant compared to the steering axis. These gray "canted" triple clamps were used through the end of the red-frames. In general, if your red-frame's forks have an axle nut, they also have the early non-"canted" clamps and if your red-frame has an axle that screws directly into the fork leg, it has the "canted" clamps. There is some crossover between axle-fixing arrangements and clamps, though, and Guzzi offered a kit of the "canted" clamps for people who wanted to reduce twitchiness of their early bikes, so any combination of parts is possible. Rosso Mandellos had black "canted" triple clamps. Starting with the LeMans, Guzzi again fitted non-"canted" clamps, but they were painted black." And these part numbers under the upper triple clamp, again apparently not unique to the Rosso Mandello: "Does it read "01493100" or "01493130" (both early) or "501452" (most late)?"

So, here is where the part number is (between the mounting for the ignition switch): While my serial number (1126xx) is under the 113032 change referenced in the Service Bulletin, and I have a nutted axle, this is the part number referenced as the later canted triple clamps (501 452). LowRyter, where is your serial number in the range? Can you see that upper clamp part number?

I have been admittedly lost on the triple clamp change. It explains why I had never seen an early Sport with a front axle screwed directly into the fork leg until LowRyter came to the last Spine Raid. It would be interesting to compare upper triple clamp numbers as I can't see any difference in the clamps' finishes or appearance from the photos.

I think the true nature of resurrecting this thread has come to light. Ah, Guzzi rides in winter when the beer runs out . . .

Most recent post I've seen from David was a year ago. Miss his wit and banter.

It's all looking really good! You know, there could be less stress on the header mounts with one less point to line up.