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I received my 1986 copy of Mick Walker's Moto Guzzi Twins today. It is Walker's third published work (the first two were on Ducati). I also have works of his from 1992 and 1999. I was curious whether he became more emphatic about the tractor connection over time, but the language in the 1999 text is identical to that of 1986. Having reviewed also the works of Mario Colombo (1977, translated to English in 1990), Ian Falloon, David Styles, and Greg Field, I would be comfortable holding the opinion that it is, in fact, Mick Walker who started this whole misconception that the Guzzi motorcycle V-twin started in a tractor. It becomes a story line that he repeated in print for at least thirteen years, and was repeated by others, so as to be repeated today as if it were true and well founded. Walker was certainly prolific in his writing career with some 130 titles on bikes from all over the world. Yet, Walker was patently wrong that the 3x3 Mule engine was designed by Carcano and that "The [motorcycle] V-twin power unit itself started life as the engine for the . . . three-wheeler . . . " Colombo published the earliest work I can find on the Guzzi motorcycle V-twin (1977) and clearly states "the [motorcycle] engine was a completely different unit . . ." than the previous car and 3x3 units. This is certainly corroborated by interviews with the engineers themselves. I suppose it might be beating a dead horse, but even recently a well respected US motorcycle magazine printed another elaborate version of the "tractor connection" in an otherwise nice article about a very interesting Guzzi. Anyone using Walker as a reference is going to keep repeating the same misinformation. So, write your editors! Carry the torch! Beat the drum! :mg:

I suppose no Guzzi content is OK as long as there is pasta content . . .

Roy, by this you mean the yellow wires coming from the stator underneath the alternator cover at the bottom of the stator coils?

I've used several different tank bags on the Sport over the years. It has never been without one. They were always ugly. Last year I took it off and just use the Teknos. I certainly like the look better and it has not been much less convenient. I'm not saying I wouldn't go back in the right travel circumstance. Doing with out the panniers would be really tough though.

Here are some benchmark voltages on a known good battery, a 3 1/2 year old Hawker PC545 having covered 16,500 miles. The Sport had been sitting three weeks at 56˚F/14˚C. All these voltages are at that temperature: Key off - 12.7 vDC Key on with bright light after 3 minutes - 12.0 Recovery after 3 minutes - 12.6 10amp charge - 14.5 > 15.6 in 2 minutes Then 2 amp charge - 14.0 > 15.6 in 2 hours and 50 minutes. Residual voltage after two hours - 13.0 This is just a battery/charging summary and does not involve the bike's on-board charging system.

Welshguzzi, I see I had assumed when you turned your ignition on the lights came on with it (US bikes do), but your posted engine off (key off/ key on) voltages may be without the headlamp (?)

Hey, your numbers look great with a couple exceptions: I would say an AGM battery at 11.97 is totally flat; should be 12.84 full charged. What's odd is your voltage comes up to 12.3 when the lights come on (?) Also, the Veglia tach in notorious for reading higher than actual rpm. Mine is off 300 rpm and I've seen them high by as much as 500 (the only way to check is by reading what the ECU is getting from the crank sensor using a software interface). In that case, your 1000 rpm indicated idle might be 700 or even lower which will not make for decent idle voltages. So, a couple things to consider: 1) For sure those are your key off/key on voltages and not reversed? 2) Give your battery a proper AGM charge which may require bringing the charge voltage to 15.5 with higher amperage than a typical 1 or 2 amp "trickle charger." Then recheck voltages. 3) Make sure you have a true 1150 rpm idle (I like mine a little higher yet, but "YMMV") You could simply watch the voltage as you open the throttle until the tach needle is about halfway between the 1000 and 2000 marks.

Let us know how they hold up!

Ignition on, engine at 4000 rpm with lights on: 13.5? In other words, (lights on), no change from idle to 4000 rpm?

That is, potentially, a loooong story. Let me see if I can narrow down a starting point . . .

I am aghast! The most profound effort on one of these bikes in some time! I wouldn't want to speak the name of the last ( . . . enzo . . .), but this should be a fabulous result! Can't wait to see the outcome!

Good to hear, here, from The Wizard of Bungendore! Pete, can you post a price? Will buyers need to also get two new sump gaskets? Thanks for making them available again!

Hi, zagato. Sorry to hear about the tip over. Hope your biological parts are spared! I found the replacement Champion red spark plug paps through ebay.UK: Lambretta parts on eBay and had them really quickly from Welsh Scooter Parts, Newport UK. They may be different form your later Sport (?) The turn signals may be better gotten from a Buell source. That used to be a better option when any HD dealer would have them in stock, but worth trying. Best of luck!

A little snow on the ground, a nice amber color to the ale, a hot tub, and a little toy Guzzi to make motor sounds to . . . I'm havin' trouble feeling sorry for you, Jim . . .

This is a beautiful interview with Ing. Carcano in 2002 by Luca Angerame for AnimaGuzzista. He speaks of building the first V-engine for his Fiat 500, "The car was very brilliant, pleasant and funny; it had a very good acceleration and the maximum speed was almost too much:140 Km/h for such a small car!" And also of the need for the (new) police motorcycle to have the stature of a Norman horse. Very interesting that the original V700 motorcycle was not just born of "form follows function ," but was meant to have PRESENCE. No less so from the fantastic appearance of those imposing cylinders showing striking power and alertness from any angle.

Very interesting that Falloon's account of Ivar de Gier's interview with Carcano puts the first V-twin fan-forced motor in the realm of the engineer hot-rodding his personal Topolino! Only later was it submitted to Fiat (and refused). I had always thought it was prepared for a specification; but, apparently not. Much more romantic (and more correct), I think, to say that the V700 (and therefor the V11) had its beginnings in the chief engineer's personal performance car. A sleeper Fiat 500 . . . what fun!

3x3 Mulo engine designed by Ing. Antonio Micucci: (sorry for such a small image)

OH, MY, NO! Let's not let that mixer business get further on . . . I may have to order Falloon's "bible." (Although, much of the book, page by page, is on that link). I did order a copy of Walker's first Guzzi title from 1986; curious to see if his conclusions changed after the 1990 first English translation of Mario Colombo's (1977) "Complete History."

Seeing the ale next to the cam cover makes me think it was presented during a valve adjustment where the correct temperature is "stone cold." Never heard the hot poker method. See, you can learn something at V11LeMans.com every day!

I must admit that I tire of writers in the magazines and other press throwing out the tractor motor thing. It is a definite misconception; one that has been thrashed about thoroughly in the Moto Guzzi community. The more it is repeated, the more it seems to become the accepted truth. I very much agree with Hubert about the cross pollination of projects, especially within a company. I suppose it irked me to come along believing the Guzzi V-twin really had been in a farm tractor first and grew somewhat indignant when I found this to be very far from the truth. Even the "military tractor" history does not support the relationship well. But, Guzzisti have known this for a rather long time. I posted this thread for a few reasons: 1) To get some searchable posts in our archives that anyone coming to this website can get the 'tractor engine" myth set straight. V11LeMans.com has become a reliable world-wide resource about Moto Guzzi because of the knowledge and superb breadth of our membership. 2) To explore the point at which the "Tractor Myth" began, and perhaps the source. 3) It's winter, the Sport is cold and lonely, and there is only so much beer. Certainly, the neat little Lambretta is very interesting. No telling whether it influenced Moto Guzzi in any way toward the V-twin, but it is a lovely thing. It would be fantastic to stand beside it in Rodano and consider its beauty first hand! I have Falloon's 1999 book, The Moto Guzzi Story, and will sit down this evening to the link above. Thanks, Hubert!

Or for our generation of Moto Guzzi: Ducati cross reference.

Is the 10th digit in the serial number a "1" (2001) or a "2" (2002)?

Field interviewed and quoted both Guilio Carcano and Umberto Todero who designed and executed the V700 engine for the original police specification trials. They both gave clear responses that the V7 had nothing to do with the Mulo V-twin which was designed primarily by Micucci. Field also presents clear photographs of the engines for comparison. Of the origins of the misconception, he said only, "Neither the Fiat 500 nor the Mule engine was used as the basis for the V700 engine, however, and it's somewhat puzzling how the whole misconception got started, given the fact that the Mule engine was designed by Micucci, rather than by Carcano." (emphasis added by today's poster)

That last one looks fantastic! If you have trouble keeping up, I'll PM you my shipping address. Local brewery, Blackstone, in Nashville, does this winter seasonal. Malty, chocolatey, big mouth feel, steak&eggs finish. 6.3%. Available at the grocery and finer filling stations. Wish they did it all year.

Ahh, Ratchet.. Ironic that in 2007 Ratchet couldn't get a search result and now we search and find him! Also ironic that he (rightfully) cast aspersions on Wikipedia as a final source, but was thrilled with Mick Walker. The irony is that it is very likely Walker's writing that perpetrated the whole tractor engine misconception.