dlaing

Thanks for the link. Do any of the maps on that site indicate performance with a downloaded map and then with a custom map? When I had my Quat-D done, they ran a before and after, but I think I was on the zero map or the stock map as there was nothing comparable at the time for the Quat-D. So, it seems it would be common practice to print out a before and after. I think this may be an example, but few details are given http://www.guzzitech.com/Dynorun-03LeMans.html Is that not a typical gain??? Presumably that optimization extends throughout the map.

Regardless of what path you take, you should do a fairly meticulous tuneup before going to the dyno. Set the valves, the air bypass screws, the throttle balance, and the TPS. And Document your exact numbers. You probably won't get the TPS set to exactly 150mV but document what you do set it to, and whether it was with battery only or engine running. A compression test may be a good idea as you may be wasting money if it turns out you had a bad valve or something. Cleaning the fuel injectors may be a good idea (I have been meaning to do this....has anyone pulled their injectors....Carl???)

No offense to Todd or anyone else - it's also a topic that invites biased positions from experienced professionals that are unwilling to enlighten us to the fullest extent of their ability from their great experience. I feel like I have had to make an ass out of myself to draw out some answers. I think the most valuable posts in the ECU thread came from Wayne, Todd, Cliff, and Derek who answered many questions by me and others that were based on minimal experience, opinion, and raw speculation. Their answers varied depending on their experiences. If you think they had no bias, why was their no consensus? I hope I am not scaring anyone off with these statements and questions. I just think if statements and questions from someone like me blur the subject, the attempt by the experienced to focus the light has resulted in double or even triple vision. Can we reach some consensus about the value of each product and technique? Unfortunately it is expensive to do comparative dyno testing, but it would be interesting to take a bike, download a map, then tuning link the bike, and then take it to someone like Doug Lofgren, Derek Capito, or Ken Hand, and see how much they change it. Even then, that is only one bike, and hardly evidence. This test by Doug Lofgren http://www.visi.com/~moperfserv/chip_talk.htm is also, just one example, but I believe it shows why custom tuning is worth while compared to downloaded maps. If I don't have the experience, atleast I can read. I urge people like Ratchethack to read Doug's article, and to contemplate what is happening in their engine with a downloaded map. I wish I had $800 to send to Ben so he could do a PCIII map, and then an UltiMap on top of the PCIII. (but then he'd have to keep the PCIII on the bike ) I wonder if Doug would do an article on something like that? Or maybe Derek and Todd will give me free dyno time to use my bike as the guinea pig for the test

But now you know more, even if it is useless. So, to rehash your choices: $0 download a map for your PCIII Pro, save money for beer Con, already drink too much beer. Mods, if you mod it, you can always get drunk and play with the map. $300 dyno tune a custom map for your PCIII [ Pro, moderate price, Con, not much improvement??? Mods if you mod it, you may need to spend another $300...or you could tweak it yourself... $500 dyno tune a custom map for your ECU Pro serious improvement Con, very serious price. Mods If you mod it, you may need to spend maybe $350-$400 as the key has already been paid for. Ask Doug L. about that, if you care.

Sorry if I was misleading or heaven forbid, arguably, wrong. Please stick around, otherwise I'll try to convince everyone to trade in their PCIIIs for TuneBoys! My LIMITED experience from tinkering without any gas analysis or WBO2 feedback is that the appropriate downloaded map greatly helped my bike, but I also benefited from backing off the enrichment numbers in a few map cells. To me, the fact that I could improve it, to me, technically makes the map "wrong". But wrong is the wrong word to use as it may mislead people that they are better off without it. The map in the ECU is more wrong, and putting a downloaded map on will almost always help. A better word to have used would have been imperfect. I apologize for using a less than ideal, aka. imperfect, or wrong, word. But please note, I did say YMMV. That being said, I am truly surprised that you spoke to so many people that were told that their was no need for a custom map. I took great faith in your previous statements and the testimonials of others that their bikes were greatly improved from dyno mapping, and recollect no testimonials indicating that anyone wasted money dynotuning, except in a couple of rare cases where the dyno-tuning made it worse. Your experience is far greater than mine, and your post has been very enlightening. I wish you would comment further on dual cylinder tuning, especially as it applies to various crossovers, and two into ones. JediOne's bike could be an interesting example. What percentage of bikes are benefitted from a customized map? What percentage are benefited by dual cylinder tuning? You don't have to answer, and I apogize for putting that pressure on you.

I think it varies by model years. Docc's and mine are reversed threaded on. So, whenever we reset our trip meter, we should turn it counter-clockwise. I turn it to zero twice, just to make sure it tightens it. I am not sure about the 2003 models...

Tuneboy, FIM, and Direct-Link, overwrite the map in the ECU, directly. All that you need is a computer, a special serial cable, the software, and the license key. They simply flash the ROM. The only thing that makes TuneBoy, FIM Ultimap, or DirectLink more difficult than a PCIII is that many dyno-tuners will refuse to use it. Ben could buy the TuneBoy software, download the key, and then bring the software and bike to Manley-Cycles, and if they are willing, they can re-program the ECU with TuneBoy's TuneEdit program. Or they can just stick with the FIM Ultimap, which should do the same as the Tuneboy. I believe the advantage of the Tuneboy is that the editing software is less expensive than the FIM editing software, but I don't understand FIM's pricing, so I am not sure. The keys for FIM, DirectLink and TuneBoy, are about the same price, $100-$150 (With any software package, you need one key per ECU. If the dealer has the editing software, then you only need a key, unless you want to edit it yourself.) The editing software is only necessary if you want to tinker, or loan it to a dyno-tuner to tune your ECU. TuneBoy can overlay serial PCIII maps through interpolation, so if downloaded maps are good enough for you, TuneBoy will save you money. If you want to use a USB PCIII map, there are a few more steps, and you need a program like MS Excel to export to and import from... so if you want to use a USB PCIII map, it is a little inconvenient. From my experience with downloaded maps, they are always wrong and benefit from intelligent tweaking. YMMV. PS Hey Antonio, which are you betting on? TuneBoy or PCIII

If that is Doug Lofgren and ManleyCycles, I think everyone would agree you are in good hands! Everytime I read his tech reports I am impressed: http://www.manleycycle.com/Tech.htm These are three of his most interesting articles: http://www.visi.com/~moperfserv/mgv11ex.htm V11Sport http://www.visi.com/~moperfserv/more_mg.htm more V11Sport and the benefits of Stucchi X-over http://www.visi.com/~moperfserv/chip_talk.htm A/F ratio variations in Ducati 996 The last one exemplifies why the type of tuning that Doug does produces the best result, because he does not rely on set A/F to determine what is right for the bike. Unlike PCIII tuning-link tuners, I'll bet he'll guarantee the bike won't ping when he is done with it.

Atleast it does not stink like the PC alternative.... I would have mad more of an effort to get there on time, if I had a clue there would be a good turnout. At the rally I only counted a couple of Ton Up gents.... And here there were only a few SoCal Geezers.... Oh, well. But, Great Pics, Todd!

Tuneboy and Direct Link are nearly as practicle as a PCIII. About the only thing they lack is a network of willing Tuning Link Dyno-Tuners, and buttons to push. Tuneboy costs less than a PCIII and has more features so that you can tune it BETTER than a PCIII. With Tune boy you can do almost everything the PCIII can, plus adjust, timing, and temperature and air pressure sensor correction. What is this guy offering to tune it with? What does the $500 include. It probably includes one tune-boy or direct-link key and a few hours on the dyno. If you buy the software, that he uses, you can modify the maps if you change your modifications... or if you find it needs tweaking....but of course your custom tune becomes water under the bridge if you make substantial modifications after the custom tune. But the same can be said of a custom PCIII Tuning-Link Tune. If you decide to modify the bike and want him to adjust it after, I'll bet it will be cheaper than $500, but you should ask him. For about two or three hundred you could get a custom Tuning Link map for your PCIII, and probably be very happy! The choice is yours!

I wish they had made a high performance twin, instead. Something like the Ninja 650, but with 99HP....All they need is two of the three Daytona 955 Cylinders, plus maybe a little wider bore, out to maybe 750cc or WTF, 1000cc. I kind of like the idea of a new bike having just under 100HP, to encourage you to modify it and break 100HP. Unfortunately our bike won't make 100HP easily...

well said! The only thing I might disagree with is that a little spinning of wheels on public roads is a good idea, and you shouldn't need to pay a race track for the pleasure of learning how to drive or ride. If more people pushed their cars a little and learned how to handle it when it is sliding out and the wheels are spinning, it would be a good thing. Same thing with novice riders learning twisties...If they just methodically practiced on a series of safe turns, they could get better and be safer riders, but doing this can attract the police. Another good place to learn is open parking lots, but again, it attracts the police, especially if your tires are squealing.(pig call ) Here in California, the police have made me turn around in an inch of snow. Good grief, no wonder Californians crash when they drive in Vermont in winter! On the other side of the argument, people are too stupid to know when it is safe to push the vehicle to the limits. I look for non-blind curves with increasing radiuses. But, when I ride with my buddies, they sometimes blaze down roads with busy intersections....freaking stupid, and I have to admit that when I ride with them, I sometimes get caught up in the frenzy...stupid I tell, ya, s-t-u-p-i-d.

Yah, it took the slow-boat... I guess the culture has been here, but always on the fringes. Wish I brought my camera today. I arrived late and saw maybe five rockers and forty mods. I guess the mods kicked their asses and all the rockers split except for the tough ones like Todd and Rich. But it was a glorious sound when they fired up the scooters!

LOL Please don't sue me for malpractice. I prescribe one daily visit, stay focused on the photos or you'll go blind! 100 properly paced repetitions, and no more than that! If you need more reps, get the nurse to help. And once your hip is back in shape, stay off the website and get back to your husbandly duty But seriously, you may find that one of those squeeze ball exercisers may help. You better get a second opinion from the real DOCC

Yah, the California law was that you could not wear them for that reason. When the speed limit was 55MPH, that almost made sense, because wind noise is not too bad at that speed. I suspect the motorcyclist lobby argued that we are risking going deaf from wind noise in 65MPH winds....which after a few years of commuting, won't help us hear sirens. I like my loud mufflers and intake, but sometimes the honk of the lidless airbox hurts my ears. Maybe I'll put a lid on it, and leave the evil Mistrals on. But mostly I don't want to attract police attention. The more stock it looks and sounds, the faster I can go without a ticket.

It seems like a good work-around to the law would be to register my vehicle under someone elses name. This topic is making me paranoid

R.P.M. AND T.D.C. SENSOR The sensor reads the signal from a toothed wheel fitted on the camshaft. The information about the r.p.m and the camshaft position is obtained from the frequency of this signal. This allows the position of the various cylinders with respect to their explosion T.D.C. to be detected. Disassembly: •Unscrew the two screws “A” fastening it to the engine; •Remove the sensor “B” disconnecting the cable from the wiring. N.B.The sensor gasket is supplied in various thicknesses for adjustment. Refer to the table on the side for the order code Fit adjusting shims to obtain an air gap of 0.7÷0.9 (I assume that is mm)

Nah, that is blatant abuse of power. Of course if he fished it doing a burnout in a busy school crossing zone...but I think that would have made the article.

No, it the five speed that sucks, but BJ will fix them proper.

At a rally, I thought I heard Mark talking to BJ Schwartz about some gearbox overhauls to be performed by BJ. But it could be Mark was just giving BJ some discarded boxes and I mis-heard everything... And I thought Pierre said that BJ does excellent work...or maybe it was someone else that said that. I don't know....it was years ago...

Is this the place? : http://www.v2-italo-parts.de/ Too bad lawyers cost more the injury..... PS Hey Andy of Action Motorcycles, NYC.! I am still waiting for that refund!!!

Any bail bondsman on this forum?

That makes sense, I guess. I am just kind of suprised that 14V @ 6A does less damage than 15V @ 1A. The Hawker seems to need just the right voltage. I think Deltran said they need 14.7V to get fully charged, which they refuse to do. My Xenotronix Odyssey Optimizer maxs out at 14.7V. I guess it works by sensing the resistance of the battery, providing a fast charge at first that drops down and after a certain amount of time becomes a float charge. Not sure how it knows not to over-charge.

When I said that you should try to excercise the muscles that don't cause discomfort to your hip, I did not mean exceeding 100 repetitions per day. Back off on the visits to that from Russia with love website, and ignore Staedtler's posts and your wrist will heal up fine.

I missed that debate. I am much more concerned about someone forgetting to rehook the line so that it does not drop on the exhaust system. But an insulating sleeve might protect it from such negligence. And for my pet peeve of the day, those cheap welded on tabs that bend to hold on the rear brake are CHEESEY !