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Looks Great! New on left, old on right

Metallo Proteins are what Iron Man has for breakfast. And more releavant to the conversation, Brembo grows metallic brake pads out out of metal alloys and proteins (whey powder). If I am wrong, I am sure Jason can correct me. Or you can go here: http://www.uiowa.edu/~chemdept/faculty/telford/ EDIT SH^T! Sorry, I just gave up Iron Man's secret identity EDIT 2 I was BS'ing about the brake pads. PS if your rear pads are making noise, see if they get hot from riding without the rear brake applied. You should probably clean them if they are noisy, and if they are hot and noisy, like your women, you should clean them before your next ride. EDIT 3...sorry, I took the thread into an even deeper mire. EDIT 4 And make sure you have some freeplay.

No John, things were in the mire before that day away. Ditto on the apology. But we will keep sticking it to you until you admit that having freeplay is safer. Heck, I have admitted I was wrong about all fluids coefficient of thermal expansion. When you come back, maybe you can explain why you arguing that zero freeplay is better than freeplay. That is what you are arguing, right?

Phil wrote that he weighs 230 pounds. Oh, and back to Richard, while the stock spring rate may be fine, Traxxion claims to sell very high quality springs that would likely be lighter. To see if you need a different spring rate, you need to measure your free and static sag. Also, tie a zip tie around the fork and do a aggressive stop. If the tie gets pushed all the way down, you probably need a firmer spring. If you don't have the money for Traxxion, a lot of people seem to do better, just adding bigger spring spacers(really easy) and going to a lighter weight fork oil. I theorize that if you add just a little more preload in the rebound side, it will balance out the compressive forces on the compression side. But too much could be a bad thing. Suspension specialists regularly set up bikes with different rate springs in each fork. I don't really like the idea, but I guess they know their stuff.

You are probably fine with the stock springs, but I am sure the cartridge damping will help. I think the biggest problem with the Marzocchis is that the high speed damping is too stiff. Do the Marzocchis in our bike even have sprung valves to decrease high speed damping???? The Traxxion cartridges must, right?

...and six-ninety nine for shipping I'll find something to measure it with. It is my duty to the Guzzi community.

I thought I told you about her. She is into metallo proteins! Right up your alley! Although I guess she has not worked on them in years...damn PI with big ideas, and no money....

I looked and they were all over $20!!!!!! I'll check Home Repo, I mean Home Depot.

We covered it in the other thread in 9 pages. But since it is sooooo important, I'll try to explain here. You have to visualize what is happening to the inner and outer races when the axle is torqued. Point one, the spacer will compress under torque, and if it is too soft it will deform. Regardless, the tolerance of the bearing is less than a tenth of a millimeter, so if the spacer is a tenth short, the torque from the axle nut will put damaging pressure on the bearing. In the other direction, if the spacer is longer, you can torque it till the threads strip and it will not damage the bearing. We never really covered the implications of it being too long, I suppose the wheel could shift enough to cause the rotor to scrub the pads, but one or even two millimeter longer, should not be a problem, because the bearings are seated pretty well and the force to shift the wheel would have to move both bearings in their seats simultaneously. While it would theoretically be ideal to never have freeplay for anything, the real world needs freeplay. Things expand and contract from temperature and other forces. Back to point one, if you torque the axle nut to ten foot pounds, then torque it to spec, think about what is happening. The metal is deforming. The axle is getting longer and the bearing spacer is getting shorter, as evidenced by the bolt moving along the threaded axle. This is why some prefered steel to aluminum, and it is also why we need freeplay. But the grades of aluminum that Bob specified should do the job as the hardness and strength of these tubes exceed that of many steels.

Go back and check the picture of her that I posted. Some website secur-i-tie may have been blocking your access, but I fixed that. Sorry, that is the only photo I have of her and me.

OK, I was too lazy undo the hose from the clips and bring the caliber over to the mastercylinder side, so all I could do was take off my shoe, and depress the lever and push back the pads. What I could determine was that with zero lever freeplay, the pads were activated perceptibly without any freeplay....sure there could have been a millimeter or so, but very little. Now this is fine, because it was not until I held the lever down five to ten millimeters,(maybe more or less, I was guestimating my freekin' toe movement) that I reached a point where I could not push the pads back. But the effort became progressive, not like a toggle switch, but more like shutting a ball valve to stop the flow of water. Ideally, I would like to see a return spring on the lever, or a stiffer spring on the master cylinder. I could imagine on a bumpy road the lever must hammer at the master cylinder. Probably no big deal, but it would be nice knowing the lever was not tapping the brake on every pothole. I suppose an argument for no freeplay is that the lever would develop less momentum when you hit a bump. Of course I have followed many V11s and never noticed the brake light come on because of bumps in the road. I have followed riders (not on Guzzis) who rested there foot on the lever as evidenced by the brake light. Also, for what its worth, a bicycle brake fluid, Stendec, says, "• A low coefficient of thermal expansion to reduce system 'pump up'." Another less authorative site says silicone brake fluid has a higher coefficient than alcohol fluids. http://www.off-road.com/4x4web/tlcal/v3n1635.htm

Now John, while you are correct that by itself, you could call my logic faulty, but you missed that I was simply trying to remind you of the fact that all fluids expand when the temperature rises. Ice is not a fluid, so your leap of logic here breaks the most fundamental rules, or in 'Roper Speak' is poppycock! EDIT I am wrong, water contracts when the temperature rises from 0 to 4 degrees Celcius Regardless, as far as I know, all other fluids expand when the temperature rises. EDIT2 wrong again, my chemist girlfriend suggested that liquid helium and liquid benezene may have negative coefficients. (but we are not putting that in our brake lines.) And as we have pointed out, what is more relevant is brake fluid after just a few months. I began the statement with an FWIW because if you have freeplay as Pete and I suggest, the thermal expansion is a non-issue, assuming your master cylinder does not stick or seize. What is more important is the invasion of water and air and other contaminants that lead to sticking pistons and vaporization. But none the less, if for whatever reason the master cylinder piston does not return to the open position, thermal expansion is significant enough with virgin fluid to be catastrophic. And to top it all off, there is virtually no such thing as virgin fluid. As you posted some moisture is inevitable and does lower the boiling point significantly. Again, if the piston does not return to the open position, thermal expansion is more than significant enough with six month old fluid to be catastrophic...and if you live in Seattle, you will be absorbing more moisture than inland than in San Diego. Moisture and air are an in escapable, but minimizable reality. What you seem to fail to accept is that freeplay, and recommending freeplay could save lives. While your setting it to zero lever freeplay is harmless, advocating it may not be a good idea. I think Enzo may have set his below zero freeplay. If one sets it to zero freeplay one cannot as easily monitor if the freeplay slips below zero freeplay. If people do not know that there should be some freeplay, they may just adjust the lever to fit their foot and ride off with less than zero and die after the thermal expansion creeps in, heats up the disk, heats up the fluid, heats up the disk, then the fluid to the boiling point, and then they crash. RIP I am going to go out to the garage right now and try to measure the difference between lever freeplay and the point that the valve closes. Be back soon!

Thanks, GH, Unfortunately, I am not great at measuring But I'll be sure to report on the fit. The worst thing is that now I have to trash one of my bearings.... But a small cost for safety. I am sure the 113.04mm is fine for me and many others, but you might just recommend that people measure before ordering. For those that did not follow the thread, the distance between the bearings has been measured by Gio to be between 112.6 and 112.7, and I believe Baldini measured it at 112.8mm. We never totally agreed on how much freeplay is acceptable, but if your distance between is around 112.6 and 112.8 I believe we agreed it should be fine to make the spacer 113.0x mm. The OEM spacer was too short at about 112.4-112.6. I measured with a wood ruler Yours may vary!!! The spacer MUST be longer than the distance between the bearing seats. Thanks Jason, Bob, and all those who contributed with posts!

...and Moto International, is the US Teo Lamers partner. I wonder how they are all partnered? Same owner? Shared Warehouse???

I don't see tha Duke???? Catherine Bach is the natural one. Jessica is the plastic doll who's mouth is too small for a real man!

I have tried a couple synthetic bike oils, Repsol, and some french stuff beginning with the letter M, but for some reason, the maxima semi synthetic seems to burn less. Not sure why Maybe because it is a 20W-50??? I want to try their full synthetic, but it is expensive: http://www.maximausa.com/ I also tried automotive Mobil 1 5w-50 and found that the engine was noisy, so I pulled that out at 1000 miles. Also, I will argue that smart, frugal people use synthetic because it is cheaper after labor costs. Of course if you have lots of time and want to change the dino every 2000 miles, be my guest. Synthetics do last at least one and a half times as long. I change mine every 3000 miles...perhaps that is obsessive, but the bike is quieter, and better protected. Of course I could put the money in the bank and save up for new engine.

SNAP! I'll take one, por favor! (Thanx for going with aluminum) FWIW the cheap aluminum spacer that I made seems to holding up well, and has not gotten mashed down under torque enough to cause problems. I just pulled the rear wheel last night, after a thousand miles and the spacer was firm but moveable between the bearings, and the bearings turned like new. I used an aluminum that is probably less than half as hard or strong as the rated alloys, so the high grade aluminum alloy should have no problem.

I think the forum sponsor, Teo Lamers and their international partners carry the H-B line. What country are you in?

Oh no, a genetically destined scientist! Or maybe (s)he can overcome the genetics and have a more practicle career All the best!

FWIW the reason a thermometer works is because of the thermal expansion of the fluid (mercury or alcohol) So, yes the brake fluid will expand. I am pretty sure that the more air in the fluid, the more it will expand, and if there is boiling water in the fluid, the expansion will be fast, possibly too fast for the fluid to pass back into the resevoir.

Bravo! ...and yah, I'll agree that you are fine with NEAR zero freeplay. Especially since you are the mechanic/rider. But for me, I want a visibly noticeable amount of freeplay. Just a couple millimeters...and not used as a band-aid for a ruptured artery, as you pointed out. On a somewhat related issue, this article is manadatory reading: http://www.guzzitech.com/V11S-BrakeLosspic-Patrick.html

Ditto.

Ya know you are not supposed to do that. Be safe in the fast lane! Be sure to give the rear brake system a full checkup. The Guzzi Universe would not be the same without you.

I think we just about covered everything. But we won't give up What exactly did you and your mechanic check? Your response seems to indicate that you tried what we suggested. You should check for leaky manifolds.(as I mentioned) You should tune it to perfection.(as ratchethack mentioned) I am suprised the TBs balanced fine. Mine do not balance perfectly at both idle and through the rpms, but my plugs are balanced. Given that it is tuned and manifold leak free, try a compression test. That should have been one of first things your mechanic should have tried, since it only takes a couple minutes, assuming the engine is warm. If that is fine, and you are tuned and leak free, we can exclude it being the air pump, so it must be the fuel or ignition. I don't know how easy it would be to swap fuel injectors, but that would be a good test. Start with something easier like swapping spark plugs, testing, and then swap plug wires, test, and then swap coils, and test. If you can get another ECU, swap it out. The ECUs are very reliable, but as Al posted, only NASA quality. (Not to put words in Al's mouth, just my interpretation of the fax, mam, err the facts, sir.) Sensors should not be an issue as they should effect both cylinders equally for output.

Pyro Dan is still in business helping us out and making virtually no middle man profit. http://www.dpguzzi.com/relay.htm Price is $3.25 each for 1 or 2 relays, $2.90 each for 3 or more. Price includes shipping within the USA. Send check or money order to: DesignTech Engineering, LLC. P.O. Box 293 Beaver Dam, WI 5