dlaing

I carry a grappling hook with a steel cable wherever I go. Them black helicopters have given up following me

Thanks Skeeve. But which would perform better, our stock exhaust with its (2) ~one inch outlets, or a crossoverless design with half the restriction, for example hanging four mufflers on our bike, two on each side with no crossover, so you would have (4) ~one inch outlets. (No I am not gonna mount 4 mufflers) I am concerned about airflow contamination from one cylinder to the next via the crossover. I would rather lose a little power if it helped the bike run better. Enzo's design is so free flowing that I don't think he is getting much cross talk between the cylinders. Franks' has no crossover, and his mufflers may be too constricting, but he has no crosstalk issues(except on the intake side, but he will be getting pod filters) If Frank added a crossover, the mufflers would not be too constricting, but he might get cross talk issues. Sorry, I made up the term "cross talk" is there a better term? Or is the issue just overblown in my head and I should use a crossover.

I wish we Yanks could say we are happy to oblige...but it pisses us off, too But at least they are only recommendations and not laws, yet.... I would not be suprised if they start making senior citizens take drivers tests every year.

Has anybody tried it with with noise cancelling ear phones? The soft rubber earphones that Tim recommended sound like a good idea, but noise cancelling ear phones could be an even better idea...If it works in a helmet at hurricane wind speeds... I saw some at MacWorld Expo, but did not bother to ask them how they would work in a helmet.

Oh, and more evidence of the success of Tuning Link Dyno tuning was just posted here: http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?...t=0entry41736 "The great Italian tractor pull"

I wrote: something about adding ram air. Carl wrote: "Can a Dyno effectively optimise for ram air induction?" Moto asked: "Are we talking about an existing system, or adding one?" We are talking about adding one. I know, all the experts say you don't get any gain until well over 100MPH...blah, bhah, blah... Regardless, I like the idea. I think it could help especially when fighting headwinds at high speeds....not an uncommon practice in the South Western US. Also, it would act as a cold air induction system. From what I understand some dynos act as wind tunnels and most do not. But all, must have fans to keep the engine from overheating, or at least slow down the overheating.

Thanks guys. Life is a bitch, when you are cheap and lazy. I am so impressed with the folks on the list who just get things done. 2000 miles on the bike, and then its off to Mike Rich for porting, meanwhile back at the ranch the luggage racks, heated handlebars, Rich Maund seat, carbon fiber bits, billet bits, ceramic coated headers, carbon fiber/ magnesium wheels, fog lamps, brake lights, GPS, and LCD rearview camera mirror substitute go on the bike. All just in time for Mike Rich to finish his work, and get it back to you where you a waiting to throw it on the dyno for tuning. Good grief, I can't even find time to go riding. Thank you Moto for the post about Kinetic Analysis. I have been looking for a recommendation for someone in Southern California, but that may be close enough. I may just have to compare prices with Mike Rich and Ferracci. Regarding the FIM, I was more drawn to the PCIII as it gave ME control of the map. For $500 dyno tuned it seemed reasonable. The FIM would not give me the flexibiltiy that I wanted. It would have left me at the mercy of the tuner. The time to tune the FIM on a dyno would have gotten expensive, but hey, I may have then kept the QuatD muffler, maybe it just needed more advance to boost top end power. and less advance to kill the midrange ping. Along time ago, I posted about shiming the engine position sensor to adjust timing when going to twin plugging, but nobody paid attention to my post I think Al, who twin plugged, sent his ECU to Teo Lamers for ignition remapping for $250euros. http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/lofiversio...p/t320-150.html He said that only a place in Chicago would remap the timing, and he had talked to Evoluzione, who I guess could not remap the timing at that time, otherwise Al would have gone there, I Ass-u-me. Carl, getting a baseline may be an excellent idea. When I went to the QuatD muffler I had no baseline and Comparing it to another bike's stock graph, I lost Peak HP, which I expected, but it showed that I did not gain below 4000 RPMs, where I swear I gained power. A baseline of my bike would have given a more accurate comparison. But I am not gonna waste money on Tuning Link for mufflers that I am not going to keep, again. So maybe just a $40 dyno run with the stock headers, or the mistrals??? Moto, so a shorter exhaust system may lose power, hmmmmm? I really miss the QuatD muffler, but I want something with a little more power potential. I was going to try to do what Frank did, and even bought St. Augustine's scratched up carbon fiber stock Scura Lafranconi cans. Hower what might make them work is that they effectively increase tuning length three times the length of the can. They just may be too restrictive without a crossover. Moto, any opinions on going crossoverless? I think it could work if the mufflers flow well enough, but the common consensus is that crossovers and two into ones are a good idea. From my inexperienced mind, I believe crossovers on V twins are a bad idea, or atleast the crossover should be subdued. Sorry, did mean to stray from the ECU topic.

Ditto, thanks for the great post! Regarding our marathon ECU thread in technical topics, I was trying to present some examples of good results using Tuning Link, and your dyno shows excellent results. Do you have any files that would show the Air to Fuel ratios and power returns across the entire map? Not to say that your enthusiasm is not enough evidence that it works! I am just curious from a technical point. When I dyno'd my bike I was amazed how many large numbers occurred on the map, many over 20 in fuel increase AND decrease.

Just to be clear, Todd was not affiliated with the dyno tuner, he just did me a favor because at that time the 'viewer' was not available to the consumer. regarding the FIM, it would have gotten too expensive to tune it that way. But you are correct, it is available. regarding the TPS, I have been procrastinating on setting it to the recommended setting, which would have been a good starting point, and I should have set it before doing the dyno tune. My mistake. The muffler is gone now, and the bike runs ok with the mistrals and the downloaded map. When I did have the muffler that the bike was dyno'd for, the pinging nearly only occurred on the freeway for some reason....magnetic resonance from the rebar??? Or more likely it was because the freeway is closer to the Ocean. But I did not have to go far inland to give it gas and not have it ping. I have BIG plans for an under the gearbox muffler like what Frank posted and a ram air setup, and I will probably need a valve and porting job soon, so the dyno can wait. Despite my being in a procrasintated state of bike evolution, Moto, thanks for the tips. regarding the mechanical adjustability of the timing, I am not sure if it is doable. I think there was thread about that???under twin plugging??? In any case, it is better to change it in the map where needed,rather than across the board. I like the ginzu comment

I did not and still do not have the ability to do that. I contemplated playing with the TPS settings, but that could have unpredicatable results. My TPS has always been a little on the low side(as measured at idle, which is not an accurate way to measure it)...I am not sure how the TPS effects timing. But with the advent of Tuneboy and DirectLink, if I spend the money, I can change the ignition map. Apparently they are working on that feature for PCIII, too. EDIT Yah, like what Cliff said above^ The graph I posted earlier is the only graph I have. I also have a map of fuel changes, which is what was loaded into the PCIII. For purpose of this conversation, it would give an idea of what the typical tuning link tune modifies and nothing more, as there is no HP, O2, CO, or any other type of data. I suppose they generated a file with more data, but I did not have access to it. Todd Eagan, did me a favor and got the air/fuel ratio graph for me. I guess Dynojet has more user software available now, so I should look at my output file with the new tools. I am not sure. He was trained by DynoJet, has tuning link tuned a few Guzzis, and has gotten experience through people on and off race tracks. The pre-chosen air/fuel ratios are not going to result in the best power, but they will greatly improve it from a stock ECU with non-stock mufflers, for only $200! It is an excellent value for the money, if it works. Although the Tuning Link should be idiot proof to use, it does seem like people occassionally get bad results. Maybe the failures are due to the operator not paying attention to operating temperature, engine pinging, or exhaust leakage or other potential problems

Agreed, but Moto's data is not nit-picking, it slam dunks serious doubts about whether or not O2 measured levels are helpful. I am still not convinced one way or the other. I suspect Moto's work with tuneboy key, or whatever he uses, would cost more than $1000 to get half way to perfection and $2000 to get to 99% perfection for that day. While the PCIII and tuning link will PROBABLY get you half way to perfection for about $500. I don't know Cliff's pricing, but I suspect you are also half way to perfection from the stock ECU for about $800 with closed loop. Cliff's advantage is that changes in conditions will probably be adjusted to a little better. I have heard of many successes with tuning link, and a couple tuning link runs where the bike actually ran worse after the tune. It also seems like most tuning link tunes do more enrichening than leaning, and end up with more power and less fuel efficiency. But this is all based on hearsay and a couple of dyno runs. I also fully believe that Cliff's setup works better than stock, but like Moto's work, it is more expensive than a PCIII.

FWIW this dyno run was to tune my bike when I had the QuatD muffler, which I no longer have. I believe it was WOT. The pinging happened probably at about 80% throttle, and sometimes earlier. mostly in the 5-6000 range. They did enrichen it in the area that it pinged. I could post the map, but it does not show the O2 results. Also the map is not readilly available....I thought it was on my mac, but I guess it is only on my PC that is temporarilly in storage.... Anyway the tuning link did make it richer where it was pinging, and it still pinged. It also made it leaner in a few places. I don't remember what lambda they aimed for but it was something like maximize HP at WOT, maybe 13.0:1 above 40% throttle and 13.4:1 below 40%. I had the idea that this would help with fuel mileage, I am not sure if it helped, as fuel mileage stayed about the same. I think RacerX recommends richer than what I shot for. In any case I was very happy, but left feeling, maybe it could be even better.

The metal jacket version is a little bigger, so if your seat won't close, you would have to lower the holder as Mike suggested or maybe remove the rubber tray.

will do. You might want to edit your email address before the spam harvesters sweep it up. Change it to something like thrux 900 at yahoo.com I think it was Carl Allison who inspired me to do that. My schedule has been pretty busy too, and I keep putting off fixing my gearbox leak...but we should go riding some time. I am in Mira Mesa, but usually ride out towards Palomar. This should be great, your name is slowpoke, so maybe I won't be the slowest!

Carl wrote: " ...and to keep harping on the imperfections of O2 sensors and quantified output is a bit off of the point." I believe I disagree, but what do you mean by "off of the point"? I think the validity of O2 sensors is right on the point. I know my bike felt better after the Tuning Link, but just simply making it run richer made it feel better, too. I want to know if the O2 sensors on a tuning link are messing up my map. I want to know if Moto's Oxygen data is the same as WBO2. These are important points. I want to know what Moto would charge to optimize the crucial parts of the fuel map to within 1HP and to get the entire loaded throttle map to within the 2-4%CO range.

John T's before and after tuning link

Here are the results of my one Tuning Link experience. The bike rode much more nicely after the tuning. But I still got some pinging around 5000to 6000 rpms. Also, how did I get more power at 5800-5900 when the A:F is the same???

I am still confused here. From many people's experiences, the wide band sensor does a good job, and the bikes run better and make more power. MOTO's data would seem to indicate that Oxygen data is useless without other data. And Cliff just suggested that the Wideband sensors measure more than just O2. So are Moto's Oxygen measurements different than what a WideBand sensor would indicate? I guess one does the output in percentage, while the other outputs in voltage, that is translated into A:F ratio. Has Moto tried using a Wideband sensor? Or has anyone done a direct comparison of a wideband sensor compared to a gas analyzer?

So is that the only reason to look at O2? (assuming you have a CO meter) To look for possible stagger or timing issues?

QUOTE(dlaing @ Jan 22 2005, 11:57 AM) Based on your data, how can you say " it can be usefully interpreted"? What does a high or low O2 reading indicate, when at 3.5% Sorry, My BAD, I meant to say,What does a high or low O2 reading indicate, when at 3.5% CO

Based on your data, how can you say " it can be usefully interpreted"? What does a high or low O2 reading indicate, when at 3.5%? It seems that a Low O2 reading, when CO is optimal, might indicate too much ignition advance, and fuel. It seems like a High O2 reading, when CO is optimal, might indicate too little ignition advance, and fuel.

40 something and counting... Dyna had my PCIII in UPS' hands in under 8 hours. Maybe I made a typo on the email address? Maybe I need to relax...

Jaap, are you going to tour the US this Summer? We were hoping you would visit last Summer!

Thanks Jeff, I would have said the same, until tuneboy came out. Heck, before TuneBoy came out, I would have paid $450 for a PCIII if it had ignition controlling cababilities. TuneBoy and DirectLink do everything I need, save the Tuning Link, which the anonymous MOTO has given me some doubts about. So, why should one buy the TR Direct Link rather than the Tuneboy? The only reason I can think of is TR has a devoted history with the Marelli ECU, while TuneBoy is newer to this market, but doing an excellent job. If you think people have trouble getting the TuneBoy trying to link up, you should watch my mechanic try to get the TR MBDST to link up. So, first hand I have seen the problems with TR. So, the only real difference is $450 vs. $310. Tuneboy has additonal keys for $100-150. We still don't know the price from TR. Another advantage is that TuneBoy is upfront about their product and has better documentation for their product on the web.

Too bad you can't make it to San Diego. Could I bait you guys, with the following (The stem cell symposium could be real trendy! And all of the hosts for each event are Macintosh users,(that I support) so I have loads of respect for them. Pietro Sanna is amazing! But I have no idea if he does good science...) Wednesday, January 26 4:00 PM Uptake, Trafficking and Most Infectious Forms of Scrapie Prion Protein, Byron Caughey, Senior Investigator, NIAID, National Institutes of Health. Host: Pietro Sanna. Pathogenesis Affinity Group Seminar Series. THE COMMITTEE Lecture Hall, Skaggs Institute Building Friday, January 28 10:00 AM Stem Cells and Vascular Biology Symposium, Kevin Eggan, Ihor Lemischka, Timothy Springer, Irving Weissman. Host: Thomas F. Deuel. Valerie Timken Amphitheater, Green Hospital Building 2:00 PM Small Molecule Replacements of Transcriptional Activiation Domains, Anna Mapp, Assistant Professor, University of Michigan. Host: Phil Baran. Department of Chemistry Lecture Series. W.M. Keck Foundation Amphitheater, The Beckman Center