dlaing

I think these instructions might take care of the issue of high RPM at idle following forum instructions. The Moto One method probably would, too. We need a more lengthy set of instructions that includes cracked or loose rubber manifolds, worn leaky butterfly shafts, gummed up return springs, etc. If air leaks the rpm will be higher at a given idle TPS voltage. Other issues such as valves out of adjustment, bad compression, and model variations throw off the relationship of TPS voltage to idle rpm. The forum instructions do cover balance by air bypass screws, but we need to better cover it better, so that air leaks and other variations can be better handled. And if we all had dual channel CO meters, and software to access the trim, the world would be a happier place.

G'day, I missed reading through that one. Good stuff. Thanks mate! Reading that and reading the FIM stuff again has me inspired to re-do the instructions. I found this bit interesting: "Usually the voltage at this point will be in the range of 90 to 170mV, most likely around 100." He then goes on to say set it to 150mV. I wonder why most are likely around 100mV. This supports (weakly) my 100mV theory. Is it all about emissions?

Three weeks in ICU is rough. Glad to hear he'll be up and about, eventually. Best wishes for you and your family. On a more trivial note, sorry I did not get to meet you guys. Even though I made the track day, I don't know which gent was Al. It was not till I saw people loading up a Tenni at the end that I recalled Al said he would be at the track day. I do want to make the next National Rally in Oregon and maybe visit Vancouver on the same trip.

Yah, mdude is the one at the bow of the ship. (Actually those are probably Scottish kids, the product of Vikings spreading their LOVE.)

Yah, I have to give the RaceCo specs a try. I have been running .15/.20, but they need frequent adjustment. Pete Roper recommended .10/.15, so I am reluctant to move towards the RaceCo numbers, but I am certainly willing to give it a try. I'll bet at least one of the valves has tightened up on me lately as it has been more difficult to maintain a good idle, especially when hot. Another thing to remember is that according to MPH http://www.mphcycles.com/Technical/tpsexcel3.htm , the ECU reads idle as 4 degrees (~570mV) or less, so you don't want to set the idle TPS too high. I am not sure what the implications are, but it is better to play it safe. It is interesting that the idle does not fall between the bottom two rows of cells, but one up. And the bottom three rows don't vary much. It almost looks like the idle TPS should be set to 1.5 degrees or maybe 1.99 degrees. FWIW the bottom three ignition timing are also nearly identical But the offset map has an interesting difference in the 2000rpm range. Maybe that is why some of us have gotten popping there when our tuning has slipped. When I went from 150 to 100mv the popping there went away. I think it may be related because when I changed the TPS to 100mV, I pushed the cells closer to where they need to be, atleast between 2000 and 3000 rpm. I'd like to see the Direct Link screen shots if anyone has them

This post is inconsistent with my theory. If it was consistent, his idle would not be too high at 520mV Again, someone whose idle is too high using 150 and 525mV. There was someone else who got too low of an idle at 150 and 525mV, but I can't remember who. In any case, these do not support my theory, but I think I am going to stick with 100mV. You struggled using the 150mV methods, but eventually got it working, but only after finessing the RITS and LITS and the air bypass adjuster screws. What were your final numbers? Air bypass turns out? Idle speed? mV at idle? According to Guzzi you should be at 1050RPM, half a turn out on each(which is in my opinion wrong), and 465mV. It seems to me that the forum method did not work for you because of balance issues. The 150mV does not work for me because of fuel consumption issues. I recommend others who experience sub 30MPG to try a lower disconnected TPS setting, but because you will be running leaner, beware of signs of being too lean; popping, ping, unstable idle, melting spark plugs, etc.

I did not notice any mistake. I think your instructions may be better, but more complicated, than the "forum" instructions because they take into account balancing by air screws, and if both LITS and RITS are set, I think it may hold a good state of tune longer. But I think there is room to polish the instructions because it is easy to get stuck without an idle and with the balance thrown off. I'll get back to modifying your instructions later. In this case, I don't have the ability to "correct you if you are wrong" It is only my theory that 150mV is wrong and somewhere around 100mV is right. I think the factory messed up and mapped the ECU at 100mV. Proving this may be impossible, unless I worked on as many V11s as a professional Guzzi mechanic. But I think it is not a trick, it is the rule, 100mV is right! ...or maybe not I still have a PCIII but I am not using it. I am using TuneBoy with a modified PCIII map. Now that I have seen the light, and am now running the "correct" 100mV, I shall remove the maps and go back to stock. I redid my TPS and balance yesterday roughly following your instructions. But setting TPS to 98-105mV and engine off idle to 525mV which gave me about 545mV engine running. I had more trouble getting the balance right using the RITS method because it is slower and the engine got too hot. But eventually I got it all dialed in and the balance is now better than it was when I used only the LITS and simply set the air screws to equal turns out. I think it is worth the extra trouble, at least for my bike where I needed half turn on one TB and a full turn on the other TB air bypass screw. I have read their FAQ a few times. Good stuff. Have a great vacation! Where do Greeks go for vacation? Greece??? Smart(or cash poor) San Diegans go to San Diego! But we'd rather be on Greek islands...or Hawaiian islands.

My North American 2000 has insulation. I like the idea of upgrading to that 3/8" insulation to keep the fuel a little cooler.

It looks like it might fit if you give up your airbox and go with pods, but even then, it looks like a tight fit.

I think you are right about idling disconnected being torture. Here are the instructions for torturing the bike http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/tps/TPS.html I have set the TPS using roughly the forum method many times with variations in technique that are similar to what you just outlined, sometimes using the RITS. I have gotten good results, especially after we defined everything, but the biggest problem is the fuel consumption. I used to get about 30-33MPG on short commutes and 37MPG canyon carving or freeway touring. Lately, since I have mastered the forum method, I have been getting 29-30MPG and 34-37MPG. These are Veglia numbers, so actual fuel consumption is WORSE. The good news is that I just gave ~110mV a try and my fuel consumption seems to have improved about 3 MPG. Another tank measurement or two will be necessary to confirm. I am not sold on the 150mV setting. Everything else you said makes excellent sense, and perhaps those instructions should replace the forum instructions, but we need to resolve the correct TPS readings, both disconnected and connected. I suspect 100mV and 500mV may be the true intended numbers for the early V11 Six Speeds. Complicating matters, I suspect I am getting the air leaks at the ends of the butterfly shaft, that Docc indicated. The solution to that may be (counter-intuitively) more bypass, but tweaking the trim to run richer. But we should not all need the trim setting software and a CO meter, and a proper fix would be a TB overhaul replacing the O-rings. What happens to your bike if you lower the TPS setting below 150mV? My bike seems to run better about ~110mV than in the 140-160mV zone.

If you follow the links Dan posted, they have both spray adhesive and tape. I think a combination of both would be best. Cleaning the surface is key. Any ideas on a good cleaning method? Adhesive remover to remove the old glue from the tank side, and then something to remove the adhesive remover, all without damaging the plastic??? After it is clean, re-adhere the insulation, remove excess adhesive, and then tape it down at the borders with the fiber glass reinforced aluminum tape.

Good thing it isn't "Daffy Ducked"! I don't want to start a political argument, but some may find this interesting. Warning: perceptively racially sensitive use of the alleged word, nitwit: southpark versionhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_mLlCqVyoM...feature=related slo-mo version http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9p3bh5i8f20 Italian version (almost nearly sort of Guzzi-likeish content) and the questionable authority on the matter http://www.snopes.com/disney/films/donald.asp

Might work well on my black helmet, too I guess the secret to making the adhesive work is to clean the surface very well. And maybe a combination of that tape and pad will work best. I don't trust the spray on adhesive alone.

From: http://www.guzzitech.com/HD-TPS-Jeff_B.html

The link in my signature leads to my site where one can find the numbers. But here is the link to the bearing page: http://www.geocities.com/rcdlaing/v11bearings.htm

Good question. I don't know, but with the bike's known risk of vapor lock and tank blistering, I would not go without it. But maybe it could be replaced with an insulating heat reflective spray on coating of some kind??? Any ideas?

I think this overlay is pretty accurate. Yours in Black. My bike when I had a Quat D in Blue Todd Eagan overlayed it with a Stock V11 in Red. FWIW I swear I had more low end than MY bike when stock, but this does not show that, so whatever...different dynos, different bikes.

There were a couple big patches of oil covered up with dirt on Mt. Palomar this weekend. I assumed they were the result of the motorcycle crashes, but it could have been oil dumping. Probably bitter/psychotic home owners, as Skeeve suggested. Take care out there. AND AVOID TARGET FIXATION!

It is typical for the V11S to not make much high RPM power with the Mistral crossover. Although some have gotten more than 80HP with the Mistral crossover, these articles show the Mistral gives midrange at the expense of top end. http://www.visi.com/~moperfserv/mgv11ex.htm http://www.visi.com/~moperfserv/more_mg.htm

It can be measured with key on, engine NOT running, or if you follow the Will Creedon instructions posted by Carl Alison at thisoldtractor.com, you have to get the engine idling, mostly on effort of the left cylinder(since right TB is completely closed, aside from bypass and leakage). Like we see variations at the ~500mV reading depending on whether or not the engine is running or not, we will also see variations with linkage disconnected. So, the 150mV may be correct if the engine is idling, it is just difficult to get the engine to idle in that state. Possibly not good for the engine, either. The left cylinder is working hard in that state, and the engine pulses at a low idle probably aren't good for the main bearings, etc. Unfortunately 150mV running disconnected does not correspond to a specific voltage when we have key on, engine off. 100mV might work fine????? The Micha method is making more sense now, but I am still not sold on it. The variation between 150mV running or not running, could explain why those that tried setting to 150mV had trouble getting to ~520mV and running right. IF they had set the 150mV with engine running, then the idle may have been right at about 520mV???? Using the Micha method they simply set it at idle, with engine running. I also liked the idea of measuring at WOT, but again, that is not practical with engine running, although maybe we could depend on the redline engine cutoff I would prefer not to...

Do you have the dyno graph so we can see that phat mid-range?! PS Don't go grinding and catching the side stand, now....get that suspension sprung right.

Thats Great! And the riders that avoided the guy passed the fixation test! Are there any good video games that teach how to avoid target fixation?

I lowered my TPS from between 140 and 150mV to a little less than 110mV and now the bike seems to be running much better. More response at higher rpms. Cured some popping, although that could have been the grease on the butterfly shaft top or the TB re-balance. After a 155 mile tank fuel mileage went up about 2MPG, to about 38-39MPG (US). I used to get 37MPG on such a ride, but the past year I have been getting 35-36MPG. It is only one tank, so I am reserving judgment of a proven improvement, but I am optimistic that an improvement has occurred and I am now wondering if the 150mV in the manual is WRONG (or maybe the engine needs to be running with linkage disconnected and then obtain the 150mV reading, but that is a pain to do.) This could be why so many have had success adjusting the TPS at idle, rather than disconnected. I plan to set it to a nice round 100mV and go back to my stock Map, since my map tweaks may now all be off.

You might want to check on the direction of the arrow on the fuel filter. But, yah, the rich running conditions seem to indicate something else, like what the others said.

Bad connection or ground, especially at ECU??? Clogged fuel filter(s) or pinched fuel line???( I have mentioned this possibility many times, but nobody on the forum has ever attributed the fuel filter to a reduction in fuel flow, blown fuses, blown relays, or under-charged system)