dlaing

Is that measuring the effects of square wheels? Seriously, I don't get it. Can you explain the graph in better detail and how they did the test?

sympathies and prayers to those that lost him

So, you don't believe that decreased trail increases the need for a steering damper?

I am with Emry! Rake it in at the triples, not out, you silly chopper wannabes! (just kidding, not personally attacking, yet...)

So you think that raking out at the triples which decreases trail is a good idea?

I second what Tom says!

you said you have half inch of sag. It would be good to know if that is unladen or laden sag, front or rear, etc. Unladen sag is the sag from only the bike's weight, defined primarily by pre-load Laden sag is the sag from the bike and rider (or bike, rider, and passenger) defined primarily by spring rate. Opinions are all over the place, but in my opinion: At the rear you want: between 5 and 20 mm of unladen sag. between 25 and 40 mm total sag. At the front you want: between 25 and 30 mm of unladen sag between 30 and 40 mm of laden sag Just because you are within these number ranges does not mean it is well set up, these are just guidelines that raise red flags if you fall outside the range. Your half inch is presumably unladen sag minus laden sag, which I call rider only sag. This sag is determined primarily by your weight and spring rate. half inch is about 13 mm, which is excellent for sport riding and should help cope with two up riding. The V11 was sprung for a rider about your weight. You might want to send us the sag with both you and your wife on it, but don't tell her you are sharing her weight with us, LOL! Ride height can be set using pre-load front and rear, and at the forks, fork height can be changed. But keep within the parameters suggested. Following the other's advice, lowering the front end and raising the rear end should give you the results you need. I am guessing you mostly need to go lower in the front. But keep in mind the side stand may grind when the front is lowered. Since you do a lot of two-up, you might benefit from HyperPro rising rate springs that will better handle varying weight. Also, you said you have no wallowing. While no wallowing is ideal, this could be a clue that you have too much rebound damping set. Too much rebound damping causes the spring to pack down. Packing down, especially in the rear could cause you to run wide. To test, try backing off on rebound damping just to the point of mild wallowing, do you no longer run wide? Then dial it in to just barely eliminate the wallowing. You may need to compromise a bit.

Sure seems like a mistake! They should have decreased the rake (raked in) at the triples!!!! Maybe it was the tweaked triple clamp V11s that gave the red frame a bad rep?

That's one of the reasons why I want a steering damper. Not because the frame is red. The red frame has nothing to do with why I think dampers are a good idea on ANY motorcycle. I'll take my damper off and I am sure nine out of ten riders will find my Red framed V11 to be more stable 'feeling' than a stock Marzocchi equipped 'long' frame with no damper. The main reasons to put a damper on are: I make mistakes, like getting airborne at 120MPH. I don't have Greg Fields magic touch Grooves in the road, construction, etc. $#^+ happens What can happen at over 100MPH, especially when combined with Groves in the road and my ability to make mistakes.

Are you skeered this thread will get shut down if we chat about optimal whacking speed?

I just set mine to about two to three clicks from minimum, any more than that and it takes too much muscle at very slow speeds. If I wanted to compromise as you are doing, I'd simply hold on to the bars and induce a small wobble. No need to take hands off bars and whack it. At least your instructions include working up on your whacks, feeling it out. How fast can you be going no handed and whack it, and still be 100% safe?

Swap the starter relay with another, assuming your other relays are five pin

Being an ignorant Philistine, I need further Clarification from Ratchet Hack: Question 1: I need a steering damper to ensure the level of safety acceptable to me. Safety from tank slappers, causes by the very occasional perfect storm of tire, road, velocity, weight balance, too little rake and trail, flexing frame, imperfect alignment, rider input, etc. Why Ratchet do you need a damper? 1 zillion words later and I still don't get it. Question 2: I might have gotten it and fully agreed with you, but you suggested that it is perfectly fine to have damper set to minimum, take your hands off the bars and whack the bar. While the motorcycle has self centering engineered into the geometry, there clearly are factors that can produce lethal tank slappers, and whacking the bars strikes me being one of those factors. If you have this much faith in whacking the bar while riding no handed with damper set to minimum, why would you suggest that dampers are needed?

WTF?!? “"If I had a world of my own, everything would be nonsense. Nothing would be what it is, because everything would be what it isn't. And contrary wise, what is, it wouldn't be. And what it wouldn't be, it would. You see?” -Alice in UUonderland

You have that backwards: Dropping the front end DECREASES the rake. The stability increase from weight shift trumps the loss in stability due to change in trail. Have you tried lowering the front end? Did you find the bike became less stable? I am sure there are many here who can concur that lowering makes the bike more stable.

In the case of the bad tire the bike would start to wobble at 80MPH. Todd Eagan helped me lower the front end, which helped, but it did not cure the problem. Replacing the tire with plenty of tread left fixed the problem. FWIW it was a rear tire, which kind of surprised me. The red frame was NOT the problem.

Both the red frames and later should use a steering damper. I would not say either "need" a steering damper, but I would likely be dead or fubared if I had not had a steering damper, and that speed wobble would have occurred on my bike or Billy Bob. Maybe a HyperPro active damper would have reduced the wobble to nil, but the slightly longer, slightly more rigid frame would have made little difference. Even my Ohlins forks made little difference. A better rider could have handled it better, but I slowed from about 130 down to about 120, gave it some gas, got airborne, fought the engine torque twisting the bike in the air, came down on rear tire, then a little too hard on front tire, went into violent oscillation, somehow gripped tighter, chose LIFE, leaned forward and asymmetrically pushed on the bars bringing oscillation to a halt, drove a couple miles, got off the bike contemplating kissing the ground, but that would have been too melodramatic, screamed thank you God a couple times. Bottom line is that with my limited riding skills and the mediocre Bitubo damper, I was lucky to be alive. The red frame was a near zero factor. I will agree the red frames need the dampers more, but it needs it only by a small factor more. Road conditions, high speed and miscellaneous factors have more to do with tank slappers that than the color of the frame does. But if you disagree, maybe next time you are down here with your Billy Bob we should get a video camera and film you eating it at 120MPH with no steering damper. Or we could just take the dip at 100MPH and live to ride tomorrow. I don't mean to hijack the thread, but has anyone else noticed that longitudinal engines suck for jumping?

Nothing to fear, really. I have had two times where I wish I had had a better damper, once was when I had a bad tire fitted, and the other time was a near tank slapper (severe oscillation but did not quite reach steering lock) caused by hitting a dip in the desert at 120 Veglias with well over a full second of time in air. Neither was the FAULT of the red paint on the frame. Other times rain grooves have caused uneasy feelings, that would have been SLIGHTLY lessened by black paint on frame. It is the paint color you know But I am sure a better steering damper would do more than a slight change to the frame design and color.

Or better yet, replace the engine temperature sensor with a GM air temperature sensor and mount it in a plastic tube, you know, like what the internet is made of. JUST KIDDING Don't do it

I have always set mine up to the highest setting that still steers easily enough at the lowest speeds, and if for any reason I was going to exceed 120 Veglia MPH, I reach down and give it two clicks.... of course I usually forget to dial it back out and when I go to park the heavy steering is unnerving and hazardous, but not as potentally deadly as a wobble at over 120MPH. I really want a hyperpro RSC damper because they allow easy steering in parking lots and superior high speed damping, bottom line is far less compromise. Should be a no brainer for safety, but I am a tight wad with my wallet. By the way, Ohlins Forks will make your bike more stable, too!!!! Anti-Ratchet-logic Hat Trick #1559

Ratchet Recommended Ed's test: "with your hands off the bars, whack one handlebar very quickly" Am I the only one that has problem with this insanity?

LOL! I don't bother to set mine to overly limit the amount of stock lock-to-lock handlebar travel. Simply limiting works for me, but I am neither a racer nor a lawyer.

If you have a lidless airbox, the tank thermal line could be getting sucked down blocking the air intake.