dlaing

Getting back to our goal of out performing a stock Guzzi Workshop manual. I yanked the quotes to make replying easier (good idea Docc!)My modifications in Guzzi racing green, Ryland in BLACK quote name='Ryland3210' date='Sep 3 2007, 06:34 PM' post='128319' I found the TPS calibration off by 45 mv. Starting from Jeff from Ohio's procedure, I developed a procedure summary. My goal was to eliminate iterative interdependent adjustments and the effects of any backlash in the connecting rod. My Draft Procedure Summary: First make sure the TPS is calibrated to 150 mv at fully closed as follows: disconnect the connecting rod, back off the right throttle idle screw using a 2.5 mm hex key (allen wrench) and choke cam (make sure the choke cable permits full retraction of the cam (it didn't on my bike). Turn on the ignition key, but do not start bike. Measure TPS voltage difference between two outer wires of TPS. If needed, then loosen the TPS clamp screws and rotate if needed. 150 mV + - 5 mv can be obtained with a little effort. Next, close the bypasses both air bypass screws, reconnect the connecting rod, but keep the right throttle idle screw backed off to put keep the connecting rod in tension, removing any backlash, and balance the throttles throttle bodies at idle using the connecting rod adjustment. Screw in the left throttle idle screw if the idle is too low to maintain. Do not use the choke for this purpose, because that would put the connecting rod in compression, introducing backlash, causing the throttle bodies to go out of balance. Now adjust the left idle screw for a TPS reading of .518 volts. + - .005 0.525 Volts (corresponding to 3.4 3.6 degrees physical opening as read by the diagnostic software) can be obtained with a little effort. (Some riders have been known to also subsequently physically readjust the TPS (not the idle screw) to lean or richen the entire throttle range. However, loosening its screws and offsetting the TPS to a higher voltage, e.g. .539, will fool the ECU into adding more fuel, but it will also fool the ignition timing table.) Next open the bypasses air bypass screws to obtain the idle RPM at 1100 to 1200 while maintaining balance. Bypasses should be open 1/2 turn or more. If not, back off the left idle screw to reduce the TPS voltage in steps of 15 mv and open the bypasses to compensate until they are opened 1/2 turn or more. Be sure engine has fully warmed up, but not overheating. Check balance at midrange 2000 - 3000 RPM as follows: A When checking balance at 2000 - 3000 RPM, make any fine correction needed using the connecting rod adjustment adjuster, then: B. Check balance at idle RPM. If OK, done, if not, rebalance at idle using the air bypass screws, and go back to step A. Options: Use a diagnostic tool or diagnostic software such as Axeone or TechnoResearch's VDSTS to adjust the fuel trim. These tools can also indicate the engine temperature, which should be between 70°C and 80°C when setting idle and at least 50°C when balancing throttle bodiesAdjust the idle mixture trim potentiometer under the label of the computer for best idle quality, or Use a gas analyzer if available. However, according to Guzzijack, "not an option on the V11Sport as it uses the 15M ECU - manual adjustment of the idle mixture potentiometer is only applicable to bikes with the P7/P8 or 16M ECUs - 15M idle mixture adjust is only possible via factory or aftermarket software." Once this procedure is completely successfully, in the future, minor changes in idle speed can be made simply by adjusting the left throttle idle screw. Since the throttle plates have been balanced, backlash between them has been eliminated, and bypasses have been properly adjusted to maintain balance at idle, these should be stable for many miles. Comments, anyone? /quote Be careful of what you wish for

That is what I feared. But yah, it is not very likely that they did that. I think I'll just ignore that unless we get more indications that it is critical. The only hints that is critical are the degrees not matching the volts and on MPH's chart it says, "Anything below 4 degrees open ECU considers bike to be at idle (as seen by 'flag' on diagnostic program)" But that is probably just a useless 'feature' of the diagnostic software and not the ECU, and not an invitation to set idle to 4 degrees.

Please do Here are Jaap's instructions on how to post images http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=1767 I like to use imageshack http://www.imageshack.us/ They invite you to register but it is not necessary. Browse to file Upload copy link under heading "Direct link to image" The links with php in them don't work on this forum...as far as I have figured out. When you post on the forum simply paste the link, highlight it and then click on the green icon labeled 'insert image'. This surrounds it with the appropriate code. If you are stymied because the charts are in some weird format, you might be able to take screen shots and save them as jpegs or gifs, but detail will be lost.

If you can follow the manual's instructions and get good results, nobody is going to stop you. The instructions do appear to be better in the updated manual, available here: http://www.thisoldtractor.com/gtbender/moto_guzzi_misc.htm

I agree. I don't think there is a signal sent to the ECU indicating starting is occurring. The ECU could look for a voltage drop or a very slow RPM to recognize that it is starting, but I doubt it.

Sorry to hear about the accident, but very glad you are OK. Being that I am one of the resident forum chronic disagreers, I have to say that three seconds is enough, and if you were paying BETTER attention and or not suffering from central fixation on the bowling ball size rock, you could have dodged it. Am I saying that I would have dodged it? No, I am not very skilled and probably would have been looking at the pretty scenery, centrally fixated, and knocked the rock a block. I am saying that if I was fully focused, alert and ready, I would have dodged it, and that being focused, alert and ready as much of the time as possible is important for survival. I think it is something that just about all of us can improve upon. Certainly most of us being old geezers, we must have been doing something right to survive this long, but I believe that we can and should learn from one another's mistakes. Practicing braking is something I know I need to do more of. It is easy to spend 1 minute per week practicing and cutting stopping distances dramatically. My last accident was caused by too big a fist of brake. Hopefully I learned from that mistake I know your posting ATGATT reinforces another lesson that I should learn. Once in a while I ride only with leather sneakers, Jeans, Jacket, Helmet and Gloves, with the biggest problem being the jeans lack of protection. Also, you wear a back protector, which I don't, and that clearly saved you. My jackets have padding on the back, but it is not the same level of protection. Thanks for posting and reminding me to use ATGATT.

OK!

Tell me about it. I have enough splashed lube making its way out of the breather that I hardly have to lube my air filter. And I guess my cams are getting plenty of lube as long I don't accelerate up hills Thanks for the explanation.

Good heavens, at least three controversial topics in one post! Way to go Ratchet! ZDDP rocks! but I never bought the additive, because my $50/gallon lube should not need it, right?...this makes me re-think...again.... Rollers Rock! but I always thought it was too expensive of an upgrade. How much will it help? Is it a waste of money? Sound the alarms! I am sure someone will have a good explanation as to why those with windage trays should not fear the alleged consequences.

I had a stability problem once. It was caused by the rear tire. But as Paul said, it could be a lot of other things. As Pete said, get a 170tire.

I read Goffredos post fine. I just don't know how to value his statement. It certainly does not imprint a photographic image in my mind He says, LET US READ BETTER Reading analytically his description differs from the TTR image and the MGS01 as follows: "Imagine a 1200 Sport with the new 4V engine." No problem, sounds excellent. Does 4V mean half as many valves as the 8VGriso? Maybe I am having trouble reading better. I hope that Goffredo is wrong and it is an 8V or I hope that I read better and understand it as 4 valves per cylinder. Why can't we get this terminology right? "Half fairing," Like an MGS01???? I can only hope. If Goffredo is correct, that does define it to be different that the TTR, although they could keep the TTR fairing shape in a half fairing, which if you look closely, if you cropped the TTR fairing to half fairing, took off the mickey mouse mirror/turn signals, and put a grill over the two headlights, you would have an MGS01 fairing. Don't believe me, maybe I'll photochop it for you. "different tail," Yah, OK, fine. "aggressive look (but the same Breva tank). " Blech!!! why can't they make it look like an MGS01 or the TTR and take those stupid chrome plastic things off the front of the tank. Guzzi if you are reading this, don't do it!!! "Definetely more a sport tourer (such as the V11 Le Mans) rather than supersport." Are they going to make two Norges? That does not make sense to me. He says more like a V11LeMans, OK well, the TTR appears to have nice laid back super-sport design ergonomics only slightly more aggressive than a V11 Le Mans. Is that why you are criticizing my reading skills, Paul? Because I think terms supersport and sport tourer become ambiguous enough that I think the TTR could fit either category. The Monza should be the counter option to the Griso, for those that want less of a pimp bike. The Monza should have the styling quality that made the V1100Sport and V11Sport and MGS01 such desirable bikes, unlike the Breva (sorry Breva fans.) "This message will self destroy in 9, 8, 7.... wink.gif " Yah, like the photo that Paul originally linked to. Were they asked to take the image down?

Define real. Sure it is real. There is certainly no evidence it is photochopped. What are the chances that they photochopped the two photos that appear here http://itsyokohama.web.fc2.com/guzzi_07.htm and the photo that appears here??? http://img355.imageshack.us/img355/2228/1200ttrkb6.png Not very likely. Does that mean that this will be the Monza? Of will the Monza ever come to be? I can only guess. It is a nice looking bike, but not near as beautiful and unique as the MGS01. I can only hope that Guzzi has the sense to release the Monza, or whatever they will call it, with more of the styling from the MGS01

No, it is based on Photoshop's digital analysis of the image. And wikipedia's definitions of BRG and Olive. The photoshop analysis is independent of my monitor and is only as accurate as the images are....which like I said is not very accurate, and probably was a big waste of time. Thanks for posting the wildguzzi link. I'll read it and get back to you.

No, the method is quite different: from the updated manual...with comments in Italian Racing Green. I also found the following interesting If it is acquiring the throttle angle and you are giving it throttle or choke, is it going to throw off the baseline idle?

The half truths and magic are in the manuals. The how-to articles written by forum members have been better, but there are inconsistencies amongst them. This discussion has tried to clear up the inconsistencies and produce easy to follow instructions. The latest manual update does things very differently and posts different numbers. We should discuss it

I think your modifications are the best thing currently out there. How did I dismiss it? By suggesting a better airbox could be built? Are you dismissing my idea that a better airbox could be built? What is Dr. John's center expansion box? Is that the air box we have on our bikes? He did not design our noise and power removing snorkles, right?

No, Olive green is R-128 G-128 B-0 The Tenni is much closer to olive Green than the Monza TT in those two images, that look pretty real to me. Care to point out the evidence of digital tomfoolery?

FWIW dyno testing has shown that the airbox with lid removed makes more power than pods on V11s. Also, I recall credible claims that the pods made more power when using the runner of the stock airbox rather than being directly connected to the throttle body. ***warning speculation follows, please ignore*** I would not be surprised if a better runner design could make the pods work better. I suspect the stock runner is not the ideal length for the pods, and also how the runner pushes the pods towards the frame puts a limit on what size pods can be used with the stock runner. The V11Sport has only been out for a few years, eventually someone will test some runner tuning lengths beyond the two most obvious configurations. I'd love to completely re-design the air box. Phil has impressively maximized its potential by flaring open the intakes and cutting critically placed holes. I wonder how much more power can be gotten out of a better designed airbox. Larger filter area, longer straighter runner, filter placement so that gravity does not dump and trap crap in filter pleats, Larger snorkles with tuned length and positive ram air positioning. ***speculation over, please return to your regular reading***

In the Monza photos from the Japanese site, Guzzi appeared to be getting away from the Guzzi Racing and V11Tenni green headed towards a less red, more blue green, which is more reminiscent of British Racing Green, but with metallic. When I saw the photos, I thought immediately of a Green Triumph Sprint: Still it is a different color.

Does the cross ram result in noticeable throttle lag? "For '60, the 413 gained a radical ram induction system in which each four-barrel carb fed the opposite cylinder bank via 30-inch "outrigger" tubes. The length of the runners was calculated to produce a super-charging effect in the heart of the rpm range."

So, the Monza Biesel posted is very close to the color of the V11 LeMans Tenni. Tenni Green???? I suppose that is more to argue about The Monza picture from the Japanese site is kind of close to British Racing Green, but appears to be metallic with a satin finish. Wikipedia used this sample photo of a Lotus in BRG, but it reflects the green of the grass and colors of the sky. The RGB numbers are all over the place and could easily be interchanged with some of the Guzzi numbers. So, I give up trying to use photoshop data. We need machines in the same light taken from the same camera for a good comparison. And even then Guzzi might never release it in green.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_racing_green RGB: (0, 66, 37) RGB: (0, 51, 0) RGB: (2, 28, 19) RGB: (12, 25, 17) RGB: (27, 77, 62) Too bad the Monza picture disappeared. On the Tenni I show an overall lighter color with more red that neutralizes the green. The RGB numbers are around R80, G100, B80 lighting of course throws the readings off. Some readings on a V8 Guzzi show something more like 100, 130, 100 Some readings on a V7 Sport about 100, 130, 5 For more accurate numbers you would have to get all the bikes under the same lighting

Good point.

hmmm, this puts a flat spot in my theory. Lots of interesting stuff happening here. It is interesting that when he used long/narrow pipes there is a hole at about 3950RPM and with the two shorter/wider pipes the hole moves up to about 4050. Also, the long narrow pipes make less power everywhere The two short/wide pipes are both a lot better, but I bet A LOT LOUDER. But interestingly the longer of the two short pipes has a deeeeeper hole at 4000, unless that is just the dyno operator being lazy. Amazing what a difference two inches makes. I strongly suspect the V11 crossover is too far from the exhaust valves. Maybe just trimming the header pipes a little, bringing the crossover towards the sump could help fill in the hole.(speculation, I know....but maybe worth trying)