dlaing

Interesting! What would happen if it did stick shut? I don't think anyone said 300psi. Ryland said, "At 75 psi, the force on the filter is about 370 pounds. " Why does 75psi roughly equal 370lbs on the filter? I can imagine if the filter were a balloon, it would take about 75psi to lift 370lbs. Is there math too back that up?

I guess I should rush out and spend more money on metal calipers, so I can be more anal No, it does hold water. At the the first thought of a seat belt you would be there mocking the inventor. When cars were first invented a piece of rope would have saved far fewer lives that the seat belt air bag combination today, traffic was light and the risk was low if you drove responsibly, but sh^t st^ll happened. Tightening a filter responsibly creates a low risk of the filter coming off, but sh^t still happens. Many of the victims of the filter coming off have claimed to tighten it responsibly. So, we can continue on our way thinking they are full of shit or we can determine that the problem lies elsewhere. We have noted three potential causes other than mis-tightening: 1 filter is exposed to oil and heat from both sides of the gasket (purely speculative, and an external filter is the only solution for this completely unproven cause) 2 vibration (surely a factor, and not much we can do about it, but hey maybe the throttle bodies needed balancing on all the failed fllters ) 3 Filter construction and design....finally something we can do something about. So far the Purolator's design is the best in it's resistance to loosening as proven from our anal-ysis. To me that is valuable information. I really don't want to have to use a hose clamp or a trap door bodge to be confident my filter won't come off. I have alot more trust in Ryland saying use Purolator because after detailed analysis, it has been determined that the the gasket expands properly in the groove creating the near ideal progressive torque curve to ensure the proper torque after a given number of turns, than I do someone saying use Acme® filters because they cost more and therefore must be good and will never loosen.

Thanks for the research on the SuperTech filter I have two spares, so I'll be using them up quickly and then switching to the best available filter. But some things are still perplexing. Your gasket measured wider than your groove, so when it is forced into the groove it is already fighting against what we want it to do. Ratchet measured them both at .155" and I measured the gasket as .005 narrower than the groove. I guess I got a different, better batch...if only .008-005" better. But also my gasket is not as thick, ~.1875 vs. .210 so it will have less of an extrusion problem, although the groove on mine is more shallow ~.1475 vs .155. I guess Purolator will be my next purchase, unless they too change for the worse I think you have convinced me that the Purolator will be fine if properly tightened Feel like testing the MobilOne filter?

Why do you think you were too subtle?

There are some drastic differences. I think somebody said the UFI is bigger than the SuperTech. The strategy would probably demand sticking with one model, but even then there could be trouble with production variations. Weeeeeeehooooooooo!

I suppose the guys hanging out barbershop who might have thought up the invention of seat belt probably received plenty of rolled eyes. I can here it now: Bob "that was so sad about the deaths of the Madison and Eleanor Jefferson in that coach accident at the North crossroad. I hear their three orphaned children are going to be raised by Eleanor's sister Agatha. I never thought Agatha even had a kind thought in her head, but sure enough she volunteered to take them in." Luigi: "Poor kids. If only somebody built those coachs with safety in mind." Thomas: "Safe coaches!?! You must be joking. How often do people crash coaches? I have never crashed mine. I heard Madison was driving that coach drunk and he always did drive too fast " Luigi: "Willllll, maybe if they had ropes strapped around waists they would not have gone flying off into the rocks " Thomas: "Ropes strapped around their waists!!???!!! If they are that drunk they should sleep it off!!!" Luigi never got the patent for the seat belt, but somebody else probably did, and countless lives have been saved ever since.

I am still not sure. Do you think the answer is none of the above and it won't sell or do you think the reserve will be met? I sure underestimated the value.

I was thinking drilling a hole in the sump cover, tangential to the filter, then carriage bolting some rubber of the proper spacing between cover and filter. The nut on the outside could be safety wired through the bolt and attached to whatever, probably to the bolts that hold on the oil tray. The rubber has a few advantages over a metal shim: Flexible, so when the filter expands from the 370 pounds of force, the access cover might not blow. Flexible, to compensate for slight variations in the gap between cover and flter. ...but just an idea. I don't have the confidence to drill a hole in the cover without owning a spare. Also, I have not determined how strong the cover is. If it was thick billet, a bolt could be tapped into the cover that could torque up lightly, to the tangential bottom perimeter of the filter. Anyone feel like making such a thing and marketing it to the lucrative huge guzzi market?

OOOoooops! Sorry I meant to type 0.875 which is exactly 7/8 turn. 7/8 turn is exactly in between 3/4 and 1 turn. 3/4 turn is SuperTech's recommendation. 1 turn is where I predict the metal will bottom. Let me clear up the reason for paying attention to torque. Given the filter in our bike's propensity to spin off, I suspect that the turns should be increased beyond 3/4 but not exceeding 1 turn. To ensure that this in not too tight or too light, I recommend that some torque specs be used. The torque specs should be secondary to the turn specification. If at 3/4 turn you are only getting 5 or 10 or maybe 15??? ft/lbs, you should turn it further and tighter, but no further than one turn. But if at 3/4 turn you are getting 20? or 30 ft/lbs, you need go no tighter. I am guessing 7/8 would be about the right turn, but I would not be sure until I torqued it....and even then, only a hose clamp would make me more than 99.9% sure the filter won't come off. The filter should be made to a consistant spec where the recommended turns provides the recommended torque (temperature and age compensated of course...) but we all know about quality control...especially after reading Ratchet and my disagreeing numbers. What Ryland said about vibration and the seal getting lubed from both sides as factors for loosening, should be taken into consideration when following the makers recommendation.

Fine, I resign as moderator. Go and make someone else a moderator, maybe someone who compares Al Gore and UN scientists to Hitler and Goebbels.

They are kinda cute

Thank God we have Great American Heroes, too.

Hitler and Goebbels...Bush and Cheney...Hitler and Goebbels...Bush and Cheney...Hitler and Goebbels...Bush and Cheney...Hitler and Goebbels...Bush and Cheney...Hitler and Goebbels...Bush and Cheney...Hitler and Goebbels...Bush and Cheney... Hitler and Goebbels...Bush and Cheney...Hitler and Goebbels...Bush and Cheney...Hitler and Goebbels...Bush and Cheney...Hitler and Goebbels...Bush and Cheney...Hitler and Goebbels...Bush and Cheney...Hitler and Goebbels...Bush and Cheney... Hitler and Goebbels...Bush and Cheney...Hitler and Goebbels...Bush and Cheney...Hitler and Goebbels...Bush and Cheney...Hitler and Goebbels...Bush and Cheney...Hitler and Goebbels...Bush and Cheney...Hitler and Goebbels...Bush and Cheney... Hitler and Goebbels...Bush and Cheney...Hitler and Goebbels...Bush and Cheney...Hitler and Goebbels...Bush and Cheney...Hitler and Goebbels...Bush and Cheney...Hitler and Goebbels...Bush and Cheney...Hitler and Goebbels...Bush and Cheney... Other seens you have already seen and images of US Soldiers raping Iraqi women... http://www.mundoarabe.org/vejacion_y_tortura_em_iraq.htm not for the faint of heart..... ...and just to keep it somewhat balanced (but by no means to justify it) Hitler and Goebbels...Bush and Cheney...Hitler and Goebbels...Bush and Cheney...Hitler and Goebbels...Bush and Cheney...Hitler and Goebbels...Bush and Cheney...Hitler and Goebbels...Bush and Cheney...Hitler and Goebbels...Bush and Cheney...

Until Ryland or someone comes up with anything more conclusive, the conclusion I have for the ST3614: Do not HORSE the fecker up tight or you may strip the threads or need to grrrrrind the secker off the teet. I don't know for sure what the torque specs should be, but I suspect something close to the following may do the trick....Opinions of the more experienced appreciated. Torque it with a torque wrench till ya git atleast 15 foot-pounds with at least 0.75 turns, but do not exceed 20 foot-pounds nor 0.99 turns. The ideal might be 17.5 foot-pounds and 8.75 turns.EDIT Oooops .875 turns If you put a hose clamp on you can probably go a bit on the light side, but if you do not use a hose clamp, a bit on the tight side may necessary. From here http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/FilterXRef.html I got the following info: [3] Guzzi V11Sport These Oil Filters have 3/4" x 16tpi threads, 8 psi by-pass valve, EDIT later in this thread Ryland suggest 8psi is wrong. So you might not want to use their listed or recommended filters. anti-drain back valve. That web site recommended the filters below in blue. They list the ones in black. I might suggest one verify what they list and recommend I recommend the ones in red Be sure to remove any sticker on the filter before you install it. *UFI 2328700 * SuperTech ST3614 * K&N KN-163 * Purolator PL10241 / PL25230 * Mobil1 M1-102 * Bosch 3330 * Baldwin B1413 * Hastings LF576 * NAPA 1348 * Purolator ML16822 * WIX 51348 * AMSOil SMF 133/134/135 but I have Amsoil EAOM132 on my list * Fram PH6022, PH6065A but I have Fram PH3614 on my list, but I don't recommend And here is an interesting article http://www.mgnoc.com/article_oil_filters_revisited.html

It is about taking responsibility for Anthropogenic farking up but it had digressed to AGW Anthropogenic Geek mis-Wordings Bytheway, way to go Al with the FAQ. I wish we could get John (Ryland) to do the same analysis on the SuperTech. Ratchet and my numbers might not be fairly comparable. However if Ryland does a direct comparison, the result would be more credible.

Ditto on the welome home Al! Al 5275 Me 5092 and I can't believe I have twice as many posts as Ratchet!?!@ 2531 ...but I think he has typed more words Top Ten to date: Al Me jrt 3,498 belfastguzzi 3,364 helicopterjim 3,106 DeBenGuzzi 3,041 Nogbad 2,767 callison 2,730 ratchethack 2,531 Guzzirider 2,416 Come on all you slackers, catch up with us, if you can! ...and I think I need to spend more time fixing my bike...

I believe it is an effect of the bling-o-licious racing stripe

Based on my numbers given: Gasket thickness 0.1875, width 0.150 Groove outside wall depth 0.1475, inside wall depth 0.130, groove width 0.155 here's what I come up with: It would take .64 turns for the outer lip of the can to bottom out at 78.7% squeeze. So, less gasket would be pressured to extrude, dude But still not realistic to expect from the gasket material. What is likely to happen, if there is not much air in the gasket, is that the extrusion will pinch. Also, possibly the inner ring of groove will pull tighter than the outer ring, closing off the extrusion even more. I think it would take excessive torque to get metal to metal contact, but so far the math suggests we get metal to metal contact at 3/4 turn, which is also the recommendation on my filter's sticker (note: sticker must always removed before installation) ....But, one thing that we failed to note is that the groove is not flat but rounded and it pushes the gasket out of the bottom of the groove. The gasket thickness .1875 minus the groove depth .1475 is .0400", but my measurements of the gasket above the groove outer rim indicate kind of vague measurements between .060 and .065" resulting in less squeeze and more turn 0.96 to 1.04, which would at .0625" perfectly match an engineered one full turn. Because they specified 3/4 turn, there is no metal contact. So the gasket is smartly extruding ~.025" into the curve in the bottom of the groove and towards the inner ring of the groove .005. Not as bad a design as I had thought after my first and second measurements Still I am not convinced that 3/4 turn will provide total security. Perhaps 7/8 turn would ensure it won't come loose. I am curious what the torque numbers are at every degree eighth turn. I guess it would vary, mostly dependent on how oxidized the gasket is????

I have wondered about that myself. EasternBeaver boasts about using 14ga in their heavy duty kit. Does that mean they use 16ga in the normal kit? I think if you up the bulb to a higher wattage, the greatest potential failure point is the socket melting, and maybe the wiring around it. 12ga in the bucket there might help draw excess heat away, while producing less heat, with a result of reduced risk of melting FWIW I think my alternator wire is only 16ga??????

http://www.newspeed3.com/html/kellermann_turn_signals.html I think they are a little small and expensive, but they look nice.

I was at Sonny Angel Motorcycles today and they mentioned that they have a 1973 Norton Commando still in the crate, un-opened. Can't wait to win the lotto and make an offer! (I hope I got my facts straight on year and model...I walked in on a conversation, and did not verify what I thought I heard, but without a doubt they have a 70's brit bike in the crate.) Unfortunately, no details of the bike at their website http://www.sonnyangelmotorcycles.com

I guess I should have spent more money. It is good enough for more than 90% of my needs, but the other 10% are when it really matters. So now that we have got that settled, I guess we now know there are some pretty serious variations in production of the ST3614. FWIW my filter is brand new, but may have been sitting in garage for a year or two. Is the filter you measured used? The rubber could have swelled, but it would have swelled outward under compression:huh2: I have a second filter that I can measure. ...back in a few minutes EDIT...The second filter has the same measurements. FWIW they are marked made in USA. After I go through these two, that I bought at the Poway Walmart, I might consider splurging on Purolators. I wonder if I torqued mine enough to bottom out Can't wait to do another oil change to find out more!

I guess you suceeded in embarassing me No, I got it at Marshall's Industrial Hardware.

To help understand how this caliper works, here is a photo of it reading the width of the gasket. It is > .150" and My wife says the same thing Exactly! Thanks!

Would someone please lift the burden of embarassment from me and load it on Ratchet's shoulders?