al_roethlisberger

Each post has an "edit" button, and I believe(although I've never done it) that if you delete the first post, you will delete the thread. al

Well, OK, but you could have just replaced the images in this thread with the ones I resized for ya, or deleted them in your posts without starting a whole new thread Keep in mind, if you began a thread, you can delete it, and you can always edit or delete individual posts(including images) of your own within any thread. Just trying to help al

So, I took the tank down to my local plastics shop(TAP) and asked them about what might stick/bond to tank material itself if I wanted to build-out the bottom of the tank for additional capacity, and to "balance" both sides of the tank. Well, after some investigation, the poly material that our tanks are made out of(and apparently quite commonly used for other similar applications, like those plastic cutting boards one can get) is specifically designed to be inert to most solvents(duh! ), and hence none of the myriad epoxies, solvents, etc. that the common man has access to... will work, and/or stay durable/flexible enough to be safe for a fuel-tank application. They said that again, this is very common in regard to these tanks, and for example, in many cases if they get punctured, they often have to be replaced versus repaired. The only option they recommended looking into was to have an experienced machine shop that works in plastics "heat weld" to the tank, but that sounds dicey to me. I'll have to think on this some more.... al

Working drawing image resized:

Here ya go, images resized, you can delete the images in your post for easier reading

Hi Tim, Actually an open-loop EFI system like ours is quite simple... in fact, ignoring the ECU, it's actually simpler than a carb in many respects. As you can no doubt find through a simple "Google" an EFI system really consists of just three items: 1- Fuel Pump to pressurize the loop 2- Injector(high speed valve) 3- Pressure Regulator ....and of course, some system either electronic or mechanical to open and close the injectors at the correct time. The pump draws fuel from the tank, pressurizing the fuel line/rail that the injectors are attached to. The pressure regulator at the "end" of the fuel line/rail maintains the correct pressure, releasing fuel back as needed into the tank to maintain this equilibrium. Hence an EFI "loop" Again, the injectors, simply then cycle open/closed as needed to mist fuel into the throttle-body, or in other applications the intake manifold, or directly into the cylinder. As far as "tinkering"... this is where EFI gets both simpler, and sometimes more frustrating than carbs. This is because in modern EFI systems, the air/fuel ratio(amonst other things such as timing) are controlled by the ECU. Since this is a simple computer, yes, one needs to have access to a method to modify this mapping as needed. Many options present themselves such as buying the expensive FIM Ultimap software, along with a gas analyzer, and maybe a dyno, or a Power Commander with an appropriate map, or taking the bike to a technician that can tune either. But bottom line, if you want to program it all yourself, you will need a computer, or at least a Palm Pilot, and the appropriate software. However, tuning it yourself outside of minimal parameter changes without a gas probe could be risky, as again... since we have an open versus closed(uses an oxygen sensor) EFI system, the ECU cannot automatically adjust from a too lean or rich setting... either of which can be a problem. Anyway, hope that helps some.... from 50,000ft anyway al

Oh my lordee... can someone modify the post using the resized photo below Also, can you include dimensional specs for the part such that one could just take the design down to their local machinist? Great work, as this is the first real solution I've seen to this problem for 03+ owners

How much does this coating process cost? BTW, before you commit, I've dropped a note to Mike Rich on the subject of these coatings, and you might find his thoughts to be good information to consider before having them done Hopefully he'll get back to me in the next day or three. He's usually good about that. al

OK, here are the results comparing tank capacity. 2002 - 5.69 US Gallon Total Capacity 110 ounces of which is normally "trapped" on the right side of the tank, which is not an effective reserve(see Wasted Fuel Thread) 2003 - 5.75 US Gallon Total Capacity, 135 ounces of which is "sorta reserve" (details below) The 2003 tank has a similar total capacity, within a few ounces, of the 2002 tank. Once filled, the 2003 tank will "run dry" at 4.70 Gallons(601 ounces), leaving approximately 135 ounces "trapped" on the left side of the tank, similarly to the "trapped" fuel on the right side of 2002 and earlier tanks with the external fuel pump. The difference here is that since the 2003+ tanks have the internal pump/pressure-regulator loaded internally on the right side, and hence the fuel draw and return are on the same side(unlike earlier tanks), one can effectively "slosh" the fuel over to the pump side of the tank(right), and get to a significant portion. This represents the "reserve" of the 2003+ tanks. It isn't automatic, and is rather physically manual, but is doable by violently jerking the bike sideways to the right, or stopping the bike and leaning it to the right. Now, here's the clarification on the 2003 reserve. Unless one is just lucky with a "hearty" slosh, or is able to reeeaaaaaaaaaally lean the bike way over to the right, my testing shows that only 59 ounces of the 135 ounces in reserve will slosh over to the right, and be available as an effective "reserve" once you run the tank dry. That leaves 76 ounces still "stuck" over on the left side of the tank. My testing showed that I had to turn the tank nearly a full 90 degrees to get this last 76 ounces to flow over to the right side of the tank, and I think this is unlikely to be replicated in the real world with the tank mounted on a motorcycle. So effectively, this fuel is just as "trapped" and "wasted" as the 110 ounces that are trapped on the right side of the earlier tanks. Unlike discussions of tubes inside the tanks bridging the hump, etc. for the earlier tanks, the only solution for this half gallon is a balance tube. However, this would require some tank surgery, and for at best about 15-20 miles, I'm not sure it's worth it. After all, if you are that desperate, I bet you'll find a way to get that tank rotated nearly 90 degrees Anyway, I'll think on it.... All in all, the new tank should get you a little better range more easily in practice(less continuous sloshing), but not much. It seems the primary advantage will remain a cleaner EFI fuel supply setup, and less susceptibility to vapor lock. Bottom line, 2003 tank: - Total Capacity 5.75 US Gallons - Runs Dry(pumps air) at 4.70 US Gallons - Reserve(fuel "trapped" on left side of tank) 135 ounces(1.05 US Gallons) - "Sloshable" amount of reserve 59 ounces - Leaves 76 ounces "trapped" on left side Also, good to know... I measured 45 psi(3.1bar) on the new internal pump EFI loop which is the same spec as the older external pump, so that's good, although the flow of the internal pump seems a bit less vigorous than the unimpeded external pump I've double-checked, and this is same pressure as delivered by the external pump on the 2002 EFI circuit. So no new fuel mapping should be required by switching from a 2002 to 2003 tank. al

Yep, got 2(6 & 9yrs) now, and another due June 16th ...also have a new "project" vehicle, our new Honda Pilot. I have to install the factory foglights, and transmission, and power steering cooler next weekend I've already installed the tow-hitch(what a PITA And then there's the kid room remodel in progress, and various other mini-projects that is every homeowner's dilemma Ahhh well, it never ends al

Thanks... but I think I finally got the quick-disconnects figured out. I think they just needed a good soaking with penetrating oil, and then off they popped! al

..... unless you are talking about Laguna Seca, where they don't allow "race cans" If you want to do a track day there, you have to fit your stock exhaust, or at least an exhaust that is below something like 80db or so. They even have track db sensors, and will pull you from the circuit. It has to do with all the wealthy homes surrouding the track area from what I've heard al

Well, I think the old tank is pretty "well tested" at this point However, I agree with you, and have been thinking the same thing for a long time Whether the old or new style tank, if one doesn't have the airbox anymore... cutting out the "saddle"(or just drilling holes in it) under the tank and bridging across the gap above the spine with a new panel would add at least a gallon to it's capacity. Unfortunately I don't feel confident enough to do this modification myself, as I don't have extensive experience with polymers and plastics. However, maybe someone on this forum has expertise in plastics, that could recommend what type of plastic and adhesive/solvent could bond them strongly and permanently to the tank? All in all, I don't think a whole new tank would be required, and molding in all the fittings and internal plumbing might be beyond most "shade tree" machinists I suspect It's actually a complicated tank when you look at it closely. Dunno though, I'd be interested to hear what he thinks ....hrmmm, thinking.... I may drag my tank down to TAP plastics, and pick their brains al

2003 Tank "Nose". Note that it is a bit longer. It appears that the lengthwise mounting dimensions are the same with both tanks, but the nose on the newer tanks is about an inch and a half longer beyond the forward mounting point. I don't know if this was done for aesthetics(I do think it looks better than the 2002 tank ) ... or if to increase capacity to offset the new internal pump module... your guess is as good as mine But over the next day or two I will do a volume/capacity test on the new tank, and we'll know more.

2002 Tank "Nose":

No problem Mik ... due to Easter festivities, and other Spring Break fun with the kiddos, progress is a little bit slower on this project than intended But I can offer the following update... first testing shows that the 2003 tank will physically fit a 2002 LeMans just fine The 2003 tank is demensionally very similar to the 2002 and earlier tanks, with two signifanct, and one minor difference I observed. First, the most obvious difference of course is the wider right underside that accomodates the fuel-pump module/plate. I don't know how this would interact with a 2002 or earlier bike with the stock airbox still installed, but it appears that it would still fit. Maybe someone with access to a 2003+ and an earlier bike can compare airboxes to see if there is a difference? Second, the 2003 is indeed a bit longer, but only at the nose. The predominance of the tank is the same, that is... the distance between the front mount "sockets" and the rear bolt hole appear to be the same, as it fits my 2002 frame just fine. And this would be expected, as I would have been surprised if MG altered the frame just to change the tank design. But beyond the front mount sockets, the nose is about an inch and a half longer, and a bit different in design. You can see the difference in the photos below. I can say that IMHO the 2003 tank looks better on the bike, and this extension looks a bit cleaner, much more like the 2000/01 bikes before they lengthened the frame in this area in 02. But I can't see that this added too much capacity in the tank, but who knows Small dimensional changes can certainly affect volume dramatically Finally, the 2003 tank seems to be just a hair narrower at the sides, just from a visual inspection in its relation to the lines of the fairing as compared to the 2002. It certainly isn't a dimensional difference of any significant magnitude, and in fact may just be a manufacturing variance. Bottom line, the 2003 tank looks perfectly at home sitting inside the 02 fairing So, again, in summary.... the 2003+ tank will physically fit an 02 LeMans just fine, at least one with its airbox removed. A footnote though, I'm not certain that these tanks will fit an 00/01 Sport, as the new tanks have a longer nose, and those model years have a shorter frame section behind the head-tube. On these bikes, this longer tank nose may interfere with the triples, or just not fit at all. One would have to test So I suspect it seems that this modification is relevant for a very narrow range of models, 2002 only(as obvioulsy 2003+ bikes already have the tank ). al

7ish =)

I don't know about Canada, but in the USA, you can pick up these flashers for something like a dollar or two(or less) at one's local auto parts store.... I swear I think I've bought one for like 75 cents one time It's just a standard two pin(L shape) metal cylinder flasher that is used on all GM(and probably other makes) autos for decades. al

I doubt it.... someone posted a link a while ago to an Italian firm that supposedly supplied MG's paint, but we never heard anything else. I suspect trying to track it down would be a real bear. But, most good paint shops should be able to scan and mix a close enough color. That's what many have done when they have had various colors matched. I also just went to my local "Kragen" and picked up about a half dozen of "close" touch-up colors, took them home, and tested them out for as close a match I could for my Champagne color For touch-ups, this is probably what one would have to do. For a complete repaint, the scan and match method would be the choice. BTW, if I ever repaint my entire bike, I'll find a common auto manufacturer color that is "close enough" so I won't have this match issue. al

There are a set on eBay right now for ~$3 I'm sure it won't stay at that price for long....... Convertibars on eBay al

Ahh, sorry.... anyway, honestly, I don't think there is one This seems to be a relatively(all things are "relative" of course ) rare problem, at least I've only heard it complained about here, and even then sporadically. I would bet that MG doesn't even know about it per se. Has anyone asked a dealer about it to see? al

www.guzzitech.com ...ask Todd, he is the PCIII "guru" in regards to MG, and has quite an archive of maps. al

The Tenni, Scura, and I think maybe the Rosso Mandello have the stock LaFranconi silencer, simply with a CF sleeve insead the brushed anondized aluminum sleeve(silver or black) on the other models. It's not a "performance" exhaust.... al

And typically(I've never heard otherwise)... all the riser kits have only required new clutch and front brake hydraulic lines at the worst. Average pricing seems to be about $400 for various kits. al

Gosh, you and Jason with the dates ...you still have two days until the dinner at Alices Mike I don't know if I'll make this one though. It's Spring Break for the kiddos, so we may be occupied al