al_roethlisberger

Hey Cliff, Did you ever get a chance to double-check your coil impendence measurement per Carl's results? He had an individual coil, off the bike and got 1.4 Ohm ...just curious. thx! al

...that's true Joe, with the headers "chromed" as well, the Staintunes look much more at home. My thoughts last Summer were that the polished Staintunes might look out of place with the gold-toned SS patina the headers naturally get. Good question.... are they coated?? al

HA... finally someone said it!! For me, that too is the only reason I don't check into that forum too often. al

Hi Carl, ...thanks for the tip, unfortunately a PCIII(which I already have) is of no avail here. The PCIII for the MG cannot change the timing curve, only fueling parameters. And if I get the ECU mapped optimally, my conversations with various tuners say there is absolutely no need for the PCIII anyway. The OEM ECU will be sufficient, and is quite good. This is the solution I'd prefer anyway... ECU with a proper map alone, thus following the KISS principle ...after all, the PCIII is used to allow the owner to conveniently tweak the deficiencies of the OEM ECU's map without having the expensive software required to get to the ECU's map itself. Some might argue that the PCIII in combination with the OEM ECU is inherently better than the stock computer, but I don't know about that. Most tuners I've spoken to say that the PCIII, while a good shade-tree tuning tool, still isn't a substitute for a complete ignition, fuel remap on a Dyno. And once done correctly, the PCIII is superfluous. However, apparently few people are around that can do this well, hence the popularity of the PCIII. ..anyway, I've found a potentially alternate route. www.factorypro.com they are relatively local. I found these folks through some of my Duck friends, and they apparently have a very good reputation among that crowd, and Marc has apparently done quite a few remaps and custom chips for Ducks, BMW, etc... He knows the Manley guys, and is freinds with the guy that wrote the FIM software. I spoke with him for a while and although he hasn't done a dual-plug map for the Sport specifically, he says he's done enough remapping of Ducks, BMWs, Aprilias, etc.... that this would be no problem. He's apparently done a rechip so well that Aprilia is going to OEM it from him.... Anyway, his charge is $775 no matter how long it takes, and that includes any software licensing(upload) fee, and guarantees coming back if one doesn't like the results. Also, on the "can I ride the bike dual-plugged without a remap" question: His answer differed from Manley's saying that he knew plenty of BMW riders that dual-plugged and didn't remap the ignition curve, and they ran fine. He says the test is that if I hook it up and it runs fine with no pinging, it should be safe to ride around, although I'm not gaining(and in fact may be losing) some performance until the map is done. This would be very convenient if so, because then I can get the coils all mounted up, tested, etc... and then ride it up to his shop for the mapping. Or if I can verify that the Dyna coils will fire just one plug, I can always just unhook one plug in each head until then as well. We'll see though. I suspect there is going to be some trial and error experimentation here So, getting closer.... Marc has a call into Dwayne?? in Australia, the guy that wrote the FIM software, and is checking into some other questions before he lets me know for sure that he can do this as advertised. But he seems very confident that he can al

...you know, considering that only two people(maybe three if you count Carl's considerations) are working on dual-plugging the V11 Sport/LeMans... I'm finding it pretty funny that this thread is growing to be the longest by far on this forum OK, well back on topic... So I just talked with Tom at Manley Cycles in Minnesota. If you remember, these are the guys that are considered to be the experts in the USA on remapping FI for Ducks, Guzzis, and even HD to some degree. When I called him and told him that I had dual-plugged the heads, he basically said, "why? ...I don't really see any benefit on these bikes?" He wanted to know if Mike had suggested otherwise, and I told him Mike's general comments on "...limited benefits, but hey, if you want to do it..." Tom agreed and commented that with the combustion chambers and general state of tune on the new bikes being so much better than old, dual-plugging these bikes won't buy you a huge benefit on the street. One may get a small range of performance, efficiency gain, as well as detonation protection, but all-in-all it's negligible. That being said, he noted that "I was doing something no one else had done"... great But more to the point, I wanted to know a couple things: 1) He asserted that no one else other than Manley in the USA is doing complete FIM remaps of the ECU, including timing, especially for the 15M.... at least as far as he knows. He said that even if people started doing this more often(I told him two or three other folks were looking at doing it on our forum) that a shop just couldn't pick up from scratch and replicate their 15yrs of experience, and all the tools and process they have developed. "...there just isn't a substitute" While I always take claims like this with the requisite "grain of salt," ...his explanation of various techniques, considerations, and results seemed to support this claim. 2) Can I ride the bike with the bike dual-plugged, fuel/air remapped, but hold-off on the timing... without damage? He said, "maybe, it's hard to say.. but damage is possible." This may seem like a bone-headed question on my part, however I just wanted to find out. Heck, if I could ride the bike dual-plugged for a bit, with just a small performance hit(versus risking damage) until I could get it to the shop to get the ignition mapped, that might be convenient. Anyway, this seems like a no-go. I'll have to install the coils when it's time to map it. 3) What does it cost? On average, at Manley... "to get it right" costs about $600 of dyno/shop time. And then there's a $180 FIM service charge. *whew* ...plus I'd have to get the bike to Minnesota If I don't find an alternative, it looks like a road-trip is in order this Summer But I have a few other leads I've gotten from some Duck friends because as you may be aware, the Monster used the same ECU for a while(maybe still does??). But Tom at Manley was very friendly and helpful never-the-less. If you have questions, he seemed very happy to chat for a bit. OH, and BTW, he recommended the Dyna coils just fine al

I dunno, but you think like me it seems I've tinkered with the same idea over the last year. I've seen a few for sale here and there, and it seems like it would be a fun "retro" al

That looks really good on the Scura Jim. Great work Did you have powder-coat the exhausts yourself, or did they come from JC Whitney already black? ...a very "different" solution for sure! al

...errr, thanks... a freakin' year later!! OK, OK... just kidding. I'm sure this will certainly help anyone else trying to get a feel for the whole "look" of the Staintunes on the V11 Sport. Thanks! Staintune should really post 2 or 3 perspectives like this photo on their website. In the end I think I'm happy with the look and feel of the Leo's I finally chose, as the Staintunes looked a bit short, and I'm not sold on the polished SS finish with the LeMans. However, that being said, the Staintunes are quality product from what I've heard, and they certain stand out! Thanks again. ...more references for everyone helps a bunch! al

Interesting info for sure Carl... I think that Jason is getting the Carillo rods as well as the porting and dual-plugging for his V11 Sport, so while I might be the "hare" in this HP/performance race because I got my heads back waaaay before his, he might end up being the "tortoise" once he gets his heads all taken care of at Mike's and gets it all together But, once we get this coil question finalized in my mind, the next big thing is the remap. I'd like to find someone in Northern CA that has the FIM software, knows how to use it, and has a dyno. But all I can find so far is Evoluzione in Southern CA. While I wouldn't mind using Ken's services down there, it's not very convenient. Do we know of any shops up here that "fit the bill" ... even maybe a Ducati shop?? al

Thanks for additional info Mike ...hopefully I'll be able to make a few "Guzzi Breakfasts" again in the near future once I get my bike back on the road However, definitely keep me posted on the LE tuning. I have to say though, that if "for $1000" one could get the OEM forks very close to... say an Ohlins front end, that's still a bargain over trying to buy new Ohlins, which are easily $2000+(unless you could find them salvage from a Scura, etc... but how likely is that as most bikes get smushed up front? ). So to that end, if you guys think you can get the LE modifications to perform darned close, even before the "higher end mods" like the the Nitride coating, et al... I'd definitely go for that! ...'cause I like my black forks ...which would look pretty darned snazzy with gold Nitride coatings, dont-cha think? Keep us posted! al

Jaap, Since you probably have a more "personal" relationship with TLM than any of us... ...would you mind dropping an email to one of your contacts there and double-checking this coil impedence thing for us? Just ask them what the primary coil resistance is on OEM V11 Sport/LeMans is Is that possible? I'd love to use a turnkey service like this, unfortunately there is no one local, but then again it's also nice to understand the whole modification one's self to instill confidence thx! al P.S. BTW, all this double-checking is not meant to be any disrespect to those that have already checked their coils for me. I'm just getting as many informed opinions as possible before buying $200 worth of coils, and possibly cooking my ECU Hey Paul, do you have a "spare" ECU from that wrecked LeMans you parted out just in case I need one after this exercise? Thanks again for all the help guys!

...thanks Jaap al

The heads got decked just a tad, to raise compression by maybe a quarter point. Based on a number of factors, that's all Mike felt comfortable doing. They were "stage II" ported as well. Pistons, et al... are all stock. BTW, it's interesting that on the MGNOC list that no one has commented on Dyna coil reliability...hrmmm I suspect they are fine, as they make the HD "Screaming Eagle" performance stuff, but I'm still curious. ...just want to put my mind at ease. I await Cliff's response Thanks again guys al

OK, now you guys are confusing me, Cliff told me just the opposite Here is yours and Cliff's thread from MGNOC, and Cliff's response where he maintains that the coils are still .7 Ohm each: Let me know what you guys figure out al

So, any "long term" updates on the front end? ...was it worth the money? ...equiv to an "Ohlins" ?? I was planning on getting a Penske or Ohlins out back next Fall/Winter, and if the results for others like yourselves are satisfactory, just get LE to "Ohlin-ize" the front end al

BTW, for those not on the MGCL email list, Cliff measured the primary resistance on his OEM 1100i coils and it measured .7 Ohm. If anyone else with a V11 Sport/LeMans has an opportunity to double-check the resistance of theirs, that would be great(I'd check myself, but the bike is still in the shop). I'm just trying to perform due-diligence before buying the Dynas Oh, and anyone with any experience or opinions on the reliability of these type of Dyna coils is much appreciated. I'm looking for them to be "at least" as reliable/long-lived as the OEM set. Thanks all al

Agree completely My point was simply that if either x-over had specific areas of benefit, even tweaking the map of the ECU and/or PCIII will have a limited range of benefit as opposed to first starting out with the x-over appropriate for one's goal. Let us know how it goes Ian al

I think that's true to a point, however there are generally certain performance constaints inherent to some designs. I'm not certain this is true when comparing the Mistral versus Stucci x-overs, but it's possible. If so, then if by nature/design, one is more prone to favoring certain performance ranges, changing the map will only let one tune it within that range to some degree. So, IMHO, it's best to get the right tool for the job. If it turns out that the Mistral is indeed better designed to favor high-rpm HP, versus low/mid rpm power... but one's goal is inverse to that, the best remedy would be to get the other x-over. There may be other advantages to either x-over that I am unaware of though, and that could also influence one's choice. Again... standard disclaimer... YMMV ... especially with these bikes al

I wonder if the replacement "wrinkle" paint will be any more durable, and/or be the same look/feel?? I guess we'll see. hrmm, well let us know how it goes. al

....oh sure, who really knows, that's just what I heard But I based my purchase of the Stucci on that assumption, so I hope I'm right Maybe they can map the bike to the new x-over to minimize the impact? al

Hrmm, while I have never seen any empiracle data to prove the following assumption, I had always "heard" that the Mistral was tuned to give the results you've experienced, where the Stucci boosted the production cross-over's midrange "dip" without sacrificing too much of the top end. So most people I've chatted with chose the appropriate crossover based on this information: Mistral = Improved top end, sacrifices some low/mid range Stucci = Improved mid-range, potentially small top-end loss But like all things, YMMV based upon your bike's state-of-tune, other exhaust, head, intake mods, etc... al

OK, Well I just got off the phone with Dyna, and they recommended to me that I use their DC9-1 dual-output coil, which is what Jason originally thought as well. This is a .7 Ohm primary resistance coil, and the tech at Dyna was surprised that Dyna had recommended a 1.5 Ohm coil to John. While it would work, he stressed that if the manufacturer specified a .7 Ohm primary resistance, the coil they make is designed around that specification, and hence I should stick with the impedence the ECU expects. That he said, was the DC9-1. He also said that since this is a dual-output coil(as opposed to a dual-coil in-one design like a Crane, which gets closest to spec at 3 Ohm... so no banana there )... I will have to squish the plug gap a tad, maybe to .025 So does anyone have any opinion on the choice of the DC9-1(.7 Ohm) versus the DC2-1(1.5 Ohm) that John ended up using? Also, any opinions on Dyna coil reliability? And finally, I was looking at the following to try to keep the spark gap stock/consistent and maybe add a little "punch": Ignition Amplifier at Evoluzione Any thoughts? Ken says they have been using tons of these on the Ducati Monsters, and a handful of V11's for two years with no problems, and "good results". I think we're getting close thx! al

*laugh* .... I don't question the reliability of "in-tank" fuel pumps, just GUZZI in-tank fuel pumps Serioulsy though, I'll reserve judgement as the year progresses and we have some folks with significant miles on them. al

...hrmm, maybe.... but if so to MGNA al

Thanks Cliff... a very technical perspective for sure I'm going to give Dyna a call tomorrow as well. thx! al