al_roethlisberger

Moto Guzzi V11 Sport/LeMans Tail Light Eliminator Kit FAQ ********************************************** Introduction: ---------------- As of last year there was a significant lack of kits for the V11 Sport and LeMans, which is a surprise given that the V11 Sport has been around since 2000. But fortunately, with the start of 2003, multiple kits are now available from several individuals and vendors. These kits range the gamut from simple "fender eliminators" to complete tail-light relocation projects with custom tail carapaces. Listed below are URLs and contact information for several of the best-known vendors providing these kits. Information: --------------- Paul Minnaert's kit with LED conversion in tail carapace Click V11 parts Eurobike Tail Kit with relocated custom lights in carapace Peuker und Streeb Tail Piece on Frank Scharfenorts V11 Fast By Ferracci Fender Eliminator with LED Tail Light FAQ Administrative Contact: ---------------------------------- Please feel free to contact this FAQ's administrator via email or a Forum Private Message to submit new information or suggest corrections.

Not cheap... although fairly reasonable... Leo Vince I know, and have seen, the Carbon oval Leo's on one LeMans, but could someone post any side and rear photos of both the Titanium and Carbon Leo's on a Sport or LeMans? I'm trying to finalize my decision... I'm especially interested to see how the Titaniums look... thx! al

Indeed, that's a good suggestion Victor ...and to build on that, check out any 4x4 shops that sell lots of accessory lights, etc., or RV(trailers, etc) shops too. There are always lots of accessories in those places that need lots of switches! al

Quick question, why do you need DPDT? My heated grips are wired in series, so I would only need a SPST.... or in my case I have the rheostat adjuster from HotGrips to adjust temp. Oh wait... are you using the DPDT to choose high/low? Duh.. nevermind Yeah, I looked around for a moment too, and all I found was DPDT *or* SPST lighted... not both I'll keep looking around later. Speaking of car stuff, now I get to go crawl under the truck and change my lower radiator hose which sprung a leak on the way home from work today... *sigh* Should be fun, just what I was looking forward to tonight. ...got an 8am meeting in the morning, so it's a "gotta do it tonight" kinda thing al

How many miles do you have on your V11 Phil? The reason I ask is that even with the relatively low mileage on my bike, around 4k, I've noticed the vibes abate quite a bit. And on a recent 2 day trip, it was definitely bearable. From what I understand, as I put even more miles on the bike, it will continue to smooth out further. It's certainly not much worse right now than my old FJ1200 with 70k miles exhibited, so I don't know how it could get much better..... or that it's really that bad. You may also want to double-check that your throttle-bodies are balanced, and that the bike is running in tip-top tune. Because if not, that has the potential to amplify any vibes quite a bit. Just a thought But no, I haven't seen any iso-bars or rubber-mounted solutions specifically for the V11 Sport/LeMans. But I wouldn't be surprised if someone could build one from other parts, etc... if there were a demand. al

Try your local Radio Shack, or J.C. Whitney catalog?? al

..yes, if possible. But a lot of dealers won't do that.... warrantee reasons, blah-blah-blah But it is trivial to be sure. You can do it in 15 minutes if just hacking around, or "do it right" nice and neat in about an hour. However, keep in mind that the main issue with "tank suck" is related more to the tip-over valve than the emissions/cannister setup. So one could remove all of the emissions, but still have your tip-over valve oriented incorrectly and have this problem if you just capped off the vacuum nipple that had been going to the cannisters and had a pressure differential. So, two things... make sure that valve is verticle, that is, if you keep it. Debatable, but think it has value as this is overflow around the cap, not venting. And second, don't cap off the vent/drain line that went to the cannisters, just lash it to somethig like your oil line and let it drain under the bike in case of overflow, and to allow venting. Or yes, as Victor points out... you can just take it ALL off(although you should still extend the vent/overflow lines down below the bike to avoid fire hazards) Your choice. al

Yep, Congratulations, you've unfortunately just met the infamous "tank suck" condition many V11 Sport/LeMans owners have dealt with since the introduction of the V11 Sport in 2000 As you have discovered, the quick fix, that is, to return the tank to normal proportions.... is to open the cap or disconnect the emissions hoses, which of course allows the tank to equalize and pop back out. But the real issue is in your tip-over valve. For emissions equipped bikes these days, the cap no longer vents to the atmosphere as they used to. Instead, intake vaccuum is used to "suck" the gasoline vapors from the tank into a charcoal recovery system, which is then fed back into the intake for clean burning. Additionally, your overflow hose has a one way valve, called a tip-over valve. If this valve get oriented "non vertically" it seals off, not allowing the tank to breath. Because this hose and valve typically hang free, if the hose is moved and orients the valve incorrectly, the tank will seal... and contraction of the internal fumes and/or vaccuum from the intake will cause the "tank suck" condition. Fortunately, it's an easy fix... just attach the tip-over valve to a vertical member of the frame or other mostly secure item under the tank with a nylon wire-tie, and all will be fine. Or like some folks, you can simply remove the valve altogether. The disadvantage there of course is if the bike falls over, without the valve, you may dump fuel on the motor and ground, which can be a "bad thing" Hope that helps, and welcome to the Forum al

BTW, here's one interesting somewhat dissenting opinion... from Ken at Evoluzione. I was chatting with him, and related my quandry to him regarding dual-plugging or not, and the percieved benefits. He said that in his opinion, if there is a measureable difference in performace at WOT with dual-plugging, then even if not discernable, what this tells you is that at lower fuel-air mixture and partial throttle, there is efficiency to be gained. Perhaps it is not measureable on the dyno, but it can translate to "peppier" acceleration by the "butt dyno" and a cleaner burn and quicker smoother throttle transitions. So in that regard, if your combustion chamber is less than ideal, which the Guzzi chamber is no doubt lacking in utlimate efficiency... then increasing the heat, exposure, and duration of the spark can improve the burn. But, he also added, you don't necessarily have to go the trouble and expense of dual-plugging the heads to get this result. Instead, he sells an "ignition amplifier" that allows for a much larger plug gap, which he maintains after years of applying these to racing Ducatis, Sport Boats, etc... and his current 2002 LeMans Tenni... provides similar results and benefits as dual-plugging, but for a lot less of the trouble and expense we've been discussing. Evoluzione - New Volt Ignition Amplifier So, I'm thinking about giving this a try as an alternative. He says he's been using this kit for years, and it's Coast Guard certified for all-weather(even immersion) use. It's completely plug-and-play, with OEM harness and plugs already installed, and is completely reversable. I can't vouch for the product, but I'm certainly thinking about checking it out. It's just an alternative, and cheaper to boot, especially when one considers all the other time and costs to overcome once dual-plugged. al

So, anyone in Sunny California have any final opinions before I start calling around? The only feedback I've received, even from the MGCL, is that G Force has a good reputation. Thanks in advance!

How do they modify the timing for the EFI, and what coils are they using? Other than "everyone else is doing it", why do you find that the 15 people in Holland with Cali's(that's a joke ... ah hem ) tend to dual-plug? Is it just their "keeping up with the Jones'" or do they have a measurable improvement in power or efficiency to offset the costs? And is this solution a 1:1 match for the V11? ...I'm still concerned about how one will handle the timing issue, and tinkering around forever trying to find which coils and plugs combos would work best. al

Well, my bike is going to the shop(Moto Italiano, San Mateo) this Saturday, and they'll be pulling the heads and shipping them off to Mike Rich to get "Stage II" porting done, along with shaving them a bit to get an additional .5 of compression ratio out of them. I'm pretty excited about that. While confirming the work to be done, I spoke with Mike this morning again about dual-plugging at length, and asked about just having the work done now... while actually enabling the dual-plugging later when we have the software(whether PowerCommander, or other) such that we can manage timing for the ECU. However, once again... to his own chagrin ... he has convinced me not to bother based on my goals, lack of measureable benefit, and the expense. Bottom line, the dual-plugging will add another $145 per head to the $795 for porting the heads, and that's with a $50 per head discount "package" if you get it all done at the same time. So, that would put my head-work alone at nearly $1100 just for the bench-work! ouch! But more importantly, although he said that there certainly is a lot of debate and personal opinion about the viability of dual-plugging the late-model bikes... in his opinion, and based on his Dyno results, unless you are racing and looking for measureable improvement above 8k RPM, dual-plugging won't buy you anything other than neato factor. He admits that if you have an inconsistent burn in your combustion chamber due to hot-spots, dual-plugging might help reduce detonation... if that's a problem for you... but if not, then it's superfluous. And even if it does address a detonation issue, you have several options from the upcoming software to manage timing, different fuel, to even modifying the pickup mount to move it around a bit... which are certainly cheaper and less intrusive to do than modify the head, oil supply, and find the right dual coils to build-out the dual-plug solution. All expensive and time-consuming projects. His words: "I hate talking you out of my making a buck, as I've got lots of time and money invested in developing this kit, but for the average street application, this doesn't offer any real benefit. Some folks may say it seems 'peppier', but I haven't seen that, nor found any data via Dyno testing to indicate dual-plugging will offer any benefit below top-speed, above 8k RPM applications." So, since my budget is limited, and since I "tool around" well below red-line most of the time .... I'm going to choose to spend my money for the most "bang for my buck" which is mid-range torque, and reliability. So, I'll get the "stage II" porting, and save $500-700 worth of modifications(dual-plugging bench work, coils, wires, software, etc) required to enable the dual-plug option, and use that for other parts like exhaust or ergos. So, while technically... objectively, there doesn't seem to be overwhelming performance reasons to dual-plug based on Mike's expertise(which is extensive) and my riding style and goals.... there is always the subjective and unquantifiable "neat" factor of things like dual-plugging, and that will be an individual choice. Honestly.... I'd love to get it dual-plugged, just because it is technically pretty snazzy, and would be relatively unique. But I think I'm just going to have to make a practical choice here and save the money. And anyway, heck, if one day it does make sense, I can always have it done later al

Well, I put the bike back to stock tonight, except for the x-over... with pretty much the same results. I checked the boots, and although my left one is starting to crack a bit where it connects to the airbox, they are still tight and aligned. I checked several of the electrical connections and sensors, and everything there looked good too. But, I pulled the plugs... black as night, all caked up. Cleaned the plugs, but it didn't really run any better. So, the ECU map is apparently way off, maybe I bumped the TPS or coincidentally it just decided to act up. Who knows. But I've put everything back on the bike the way I want it, and will drag the bike up to San Mateo on a trailer this weekend. Have them do their ECU/FIM magic to see what's up.... and probably have them pull the heads and get them shipped off to Mike Rich for their porting. I may go ahead and spring for some Leo Vince mufflers too, but not sure. Then once I get it back from them running acceptably, I'll take it to a local Dyno shop to get the PCIII map custom done, and then I should be set for another new year of riding ...but there's nothing else I can do in my garage without some diagnostic software, etc. I've checked all I know to. *sigh* No worries though, it'll be fixed soon enough. It needed to get to the shop to get it's warrantee work done anyway, so they can get it tuned while there. al

Yep, pretty interesting... but they do look a bit wider to me as well. It's hard to tell if it's an illusion though. al

I think Moto Italiano just doesn't have much experience with the PC, and are big proponents of the FIM software. Inerestingly though, what's funny is that when I was talking to their lead tech about my modifications the other day to schedule some warrantee work(some of my parts came in finally after 7 months!)... and mentioned that I needed it tuned again to run well, he just said I probably needed a PC and dyno to really tune it well enough to work with those mods(x-over, exhaust, etc..) as the FIM software could only get it close. So maybe they're "coming around"....

Hi Jeff, ...thanks for the offer of the OEM cans, but I already have 2 sets In fact, I was sitting in the middle of my living-room floor tonight with the unmodified set in pieces just seeing how they were built out of curiosity. Not much to tell really. Did you guys know that if you take off the back decorative plate, the metal "pad" on top, and the bolts from the hangar... that the black(or silver on an older V11 Sport) aluminum sleeve will slip right off exposing the SS body, covered with a thin fiberglass sock? Well, it does Of course, that doesn't tell you much, as the can is still completely a sealed mystery. But by looking down into the tail of the pipe with a very small light, I can tell you for sure that there's more to the OEM muffler than meets the eye. What all is in there is still a mystery as I didn't cut the can open(yet), but I know one thing.... it certainly isn't a "straight shot" from the head to tail, so even with drilling out the baffles, there's still some constriction and winding around going on in there. Perhaps one day I'll cut one in half and see. In the meantime, to your suggestion about the intake boot... yep, that's one of the first things on my list. I'm also going to put the unmodified pair of OEM cans back on.. just in case. I agree that drilling out the cans, and installing the x-over should not have produced these results, but never-the-less... it did coincide with this problem. A correlation?? ...probably not, but certainly a coincidence that has proven frustrating. Now, if I can just find a couple or three hours to sit down and play with the bike, maybe I can see what is really up. As it is, I haven't had the time to even lift a wrench to it in a week! al

I get all of my service at Moto Italiano in San Mateo(where I bought the bike), and so far they have treated me well. I can't speak for Munroe. They did not change my oil for the first service, as they said it was not necessary. al

*heh*.... and that "hole" worked out to the be perfect mounting for my headlight modulator sensor So I'm glad they put it there. al

Well, I'm starting to feel sorta foolish here.... being mildly technical and mechanically-minded and all. I suspect this is how Rich felt when he couldn't get his bike to run worth a damn for a week or so there Any additional thoughts are appreciated. Here's an excerpt from an email I just sent to Todd Egan(from Guzzitech) after his sending me a couple PCIII maps that should have been fairly generically "close enough" for the current setup on my bike:

True al

Well, I called the fella, Dave I think... at South Cycle Pacific, and he says that the current iteration of that clamp shown on their website will not fit our V11 bikes. However, they have been looking at modifying it, and making more products to serve the community of newer V11 Guzzis. No details, but he just mentioned that there has been a lot of new interest this last year in the new bikes and accessories, so that's good news. So we'll have to check back and see what new products show up over time. Regarding the clamp as a heat-shield question though, we both were concerned that the current design is very questionable for that application. But we agreed that if there were enough of a market demand to make a handful of a "shields" that might work, he would be interested in chatting about it, and their current clamp might make a good starting point. We also agreed that there is significant uncertainty in the community about the exact cause of the "vapor lock" phenomena, however we also agreed that a "preventative kit" that sorta covered all the bases shielding the pump and supply line, would probably be popular as an accessory by many owners... as we all often buy all sorts of gadgets in this vein... at least just for fun, if not pure practicality Anyway, I'm going to give this some thought. I'm also going to look into a water shield for the transmission breather, maybe out of aluminum sheet. Dunno though. BTW, in regard to the ECU overheating... maybe. But you'd have to prove that to me, as my experience with the "vapor lock" issue last Summer was totally symptomatic of a fuel-supply issue, with the pump just "whirring" away trying to pump vapor instead of fuel. Then it cooled down, and it started fine. Plus we have to take into account where the greatest heat gradient is. That's certainly more likely inches from that left cylinder than under the seat over the transmission Who knows for sure though. Every bike is different, and someone may have a flakey ECU that is very heat-sensitive, compounding the problem. But I think the majority of folks seeing this issue have reported scenarios that seem to indicate that their pump and/or fuel supply line have become overheated after sitting in still air. I'm hoping that a "kit" of some sort... whether home-grown, or if someone makes one... will provide at least a little insurance by covering as many of the possible problem areas at once, even if we're not 100% certain which part specifically is the problem. I'm going to continue to think about something for both the pump, and supply line. al

Well I received my PCIII from Ken at Evoluzione.... thanks again Ken! And I have a couple appropriate maps as developed by Todd of Guzzitech fame that should work fine for my setup... but of course the best fit is to get a custom map done at a PC Tuning Center with a Dyno. So, I've checked out PC's website for local certified centers, and came up with the following list. I'd like to see if any of you have had any experience with any of the following shops, and have any recommendations or other thoughts before I pick one. I am actually in San Jose/Santa Clara, so all things being equal, any shops specifically in my area versus Fremont or Moutain View, are better. But that's a minor point.... mostly of convenience. Thanks al Chino's Fremont CA 92553 Services - Sportbike, Cruiser Cycle Center of Fremont Mareno Valley CA 94538 Services - Harley, Sportbike, Cruiser Fastline Cycles Fremont CA 94538 Services - Sportbike, Cruiser G Force Performance Santa Clara CA 95051 Services - Sportbike, Cruiser Hare Racing Sunnyvale CA 94087 Services - Sportbike, Cruiser Spears Enterprises Campbell CA 95008 Services - Sportbike, Cruiser

I think we all did ...mine was spurting oil like I had cut an artery! al

An interesting option/observation on this topic.... I know it hasn't come up in the last few months, but then again, we're all in pretty cool weather now But as I was reading the "shop manual" request thread, someone posted a link to the following: Sport Cycle Pacific Featured Guzzi Items ...and about half-way down is a very chunky ribbed-aluminum "Fuel Pump Mounting Clamp" accessory to replace the plain old black steel one we all have. This item is obviously made as a "dress up" item, but with the right modifications it might serve as a better heat-shield than the OEM clamp?? Now, who's to say if the aluminum might actually make it worse by conducting heat more thoroughly than the steel/rubber OEM clamp... but since these guys have already made this one, it might not be too hard to convince them to make a "full length" model that covers most of the pump and for someone to look into it. Anyway, just a thought. I might contact them and see if it fits our V11s, and if so what their thoughts are on this type of application. And of course, there's still that heat shielding for the fuel-line from the JC Whitney catalog that I've still got to get before Summer rolls around again al Reference topics: Dealer investigation into "vapor lock" problem Jason Tucker's "vapor lock" survey

Yeah, the black sounds very nice indeed. I've yet to see one in-the-flesh yet, or even via many photos really... but I'd love to see more pics posted by folks once they take delivery. I also haven't seen hardly any reviews of a V11 Sport/LeMans in a while, either online or in the mags. Regarding the new engine paint, it will certainly be very interesting to see how the paint holds up on the newer engines as well. Mine's not bubbling off yet(knocking on wood), but I'm fairly resigned to thinking that it eventually will one day based on everyone else's experience with the pre-2003 coating What's also interesting yet to see is how MG really handles issues regarding the warrantee recall for the painted engine cases for those submitting it as a warrantee issue... because I bet that the "fixed" cases will have the new smooth paint, while your transmission and bevel-drive will still be painted with the textured stuff ...just a guess, but I bet. Certainly less than ideal. I'm just hoping mine will "cure" with age better than others, and any small flakes/bubbles can be touched-up acceptably with the HD black textured paint. Time will tell though... al