Baldini

Guzzi Tonti & "loop"....

Just seen Andre's intro thread - great pic. I know there's a few here into older Guzzis - let's see em! Andre could perhaps repost his pic here too? Here's mine again:

Andre, Great looking bike! The 7 years paid off! How about a full spec? Please. What are the pipes? Crossbow/PR copies in s/s? What is the front wheel? Brakes? Footrests...?..etc.... Thanks, KB This is my T3:

Big J, why repaint at all? Just strip to alu? My old Tontis scrub up well after nearly 30yrs of use inc plenty wintertime. Never painted. Not sure if case alu is as good on the modern bikes. KB

Yeh there's usually a good selection in the MGCGB Magazine - reasonable prices unless you're after the "collectable". I'll pm you membership contact if you want - think it's about £16 pa ??? I dunno about importing to Eire but there's plenty Guzzis here in UK. welcome to the British Isles . KB

What Dan said covers it. I'd say there's a few heads in the sand here: Research, testing, quality control, spares, customer care & dealer support from Guzzi over the last few years has been shite. No question. Riders on other brands wouldn't generally touch a V11 or Sport if they have any limited knowledge of their reputation. The ones that are seduced, by looks & sound, end up with fingers burnt & end up unloading them at whatever they can get. The Breva/Griso etc. seem to be set to address all this - time will tell, but they seem to be a different league to the old bikes. Hope Piaggio get the dealer/customer support end fixed too. I'll be keeping my Scura, not cos I can't get cash for it, but cos it's dug it's way into my life - it had no-one else to turn to. I'll get it sorted (if it don't sort me first). And for everything, on a good day - it's a cracking bike to ride. KB

Pete, Used in what? I have a RAM in my Tonti, Scura puts out a fair bit more HP. Not saying failures are related to HP but it's a pos factor. Seems to me it's still unclear if failures are down to: - Bad design (Guzzi rehash or original inadequate for output) which means all are likely to break. - Bad manufacture/materials or Bad assembly which means that possibly not all bikes will be affected. Failure does not seem to be related to miles. Nor is it obvious that it comes from type of use. It'd be interesting to know if Scuras had gbox failures more than V11 average. I don't want to go back to the twin plate. Great on a touring bike but that's not what I use the bikes for now. What clutch is in the Griso? KB

Al, I raised the forks thru clamps about 11mm (3rd ring on Ohlins). Steered better, front felt more planted. No loss of stability or any downside I can find. (I had already increased ground clearance, which could be an issue). Good luck w/the house build! KB

Not sure..I'll email what John sent me but dunno if it'll be any better res. EDIT: Err- can't send photos on pm or email....no facility for attachment? How? John - d'you know? KB

Found same off 020's onto Diablos but assumed it was the back making the difference as it was same effect as going to 170 rear only less so. It was/is the rear that I find slow to turn. Presume profiles are different at both ends from 020's. KB

You talking about friction plate wear?

That's a theory that's been suggested. Quite possible some bikes didn't have bolts torqued up at factory.

R Mandello, Tenni & Scura have single plate clutch. All others have completely different twin plate clutch. Everything after that is conjecture.... It said R mandello has RAM (aftermarket manufacturer) clutch. Scura & Tenni have different clutch, said to be variously an improved/inferior copy of the RAM. Roberto, who's Scura clutch failed reports that the flywheel was stamped RAM, but also that the RAM clutch he replaced it with was different (he does not specify how). It has been said that the material around the flywheel centre is thinner. All failures that we have heard of here have been on Scuras. Cause of failure is unknown. Tho given the same thing happens every time it doesn't say much for strength of flywheel. Some say alu is not suitable material for flywheel. It appears that failure is preceded by warning noises that things are wrong & that if not heeded then failure is pretty spectacular. KB

Good to hear things going well for you Rich! KB

Belfast, I think I know what you mean.... I figure the quality of a design can be judged by how it's form follows it's function. For me, the purest design is entirely functional - nothing just as decoration, everything does a job...& everything complements everything else in the design. Not to say that things can't be styled eg: you have to have an engine/frame/seat etc, so make it pretty - but above all make it work. Nothing is there when something else could do the job simpler & better. A good example: Phil Irving's Vincent Rapide. Or compare Tamburini's 916 with the rehashed SS's Terblanche turns out. The early Tonti's pretty much fit too, but the Breva less so - as you say - overdesigned...fashion concious. 5.5" rims? no way needed - but a fashion requirement...or those strange redundant little chromed inserts by the s/a pivot (? what do they do?).... The V11 is just a nicely styled bodge cos the factory were bust but had to have new product. Not sure that you can equate the V11 with the Cobra either, Docc. V11 just ain't that good! The Cobra, more like the Tontis is a classic design - because it is rigorously true to itself. I think any creative process can be judged the same way. But as to "real/not real" motorcycles - well that's just bollocks isn't it? And same with "sport/not sport" motorcycles - a bike is a sport bike if it's ridden that way - & the V11 can be. Although like Goffredo I can't quite see the LeMans tag fits the V11 - anymore than the Bonneville name fits the overweight pastiche it's been attached to. Cashing in on heritage I guess... KB

So.... In what ways is the V11 a more "real/proper" motorcycle than say the Breva or the Griso or whatever comes next? KB

Sounds like the pawl spring broke. Same symptoms. If it does have wrong size boss seems like it lasted a lot of miles - think they usually show up earlier. Could be something else but easiest to to look inside sideplate to be sure anyhow. If you're ordering parts before looking, may as well have the three different springs to hand - they're pretty cheap. KB

Another Scura eaten it's flywheel. Not mine. Fortunately no damage to cases or rider I don't think. I know the bike. It's not been thrashed & not been apart since new. I'm going to take mine apart this winter to check for flywheel cracks. I will probably replace it with a RAM unit. (It is still unclear wether the original unit is manufactured by RAM for Guzzi, but either way it seems to have a different spec to the aftermarket item they supply for the V11). Cause of the failures (six or seven detailed here?) still unclear. Get no interest out of Guzzi customer care. Out of warranty anyhow. Just concerned I front the expense then they go do a recall. But from what I can gather there's no talk of that & failure remains a rare occurence. However it can be so catastrophic that I no longer feel comfortable taking the chance. KB

Like Belfast - mine always did it. Transmission oil from around the back of the gearbox or the sideplate - could never figure exactly where it was coming from - would build up on the xover box - but not enough to worry about. Since changing to Red Line Shockproof Heavy gbox oil it's hardly noticable. You should be able to tell if it's gbox oil by the smell. If you look around the sidecover & backplate of gbox you'll probably find evidence of oil weep. It seems very common. KB

E X A C T L Y KB

Speak for yourself matey.

Dunno what you mean by true Moto Guzzi. Have you ridden the new bikes? They work well & are well thought out. They simply address some of the faults & inadequacies of the spine bikes. But like the V11, style takes precedence over function. If design integrity & the importance of function over style are the criteria then the last bikes to have a claim to be true would be the 850 Tontis.... But - THEY'RE ALL MOTO GUZZIS - it says so on the tank...it's like the prices for genuine LM1's when the 111 is probably a better bike....just bollocks. KB

V11's arf-arsed cos.....it was not thoroughly developed, components are mismatched, & it was designed with style taking precedence over function. With the 6speed box, MG should have redesigned the frame to inc longer s/a & better r suspension. Cos of money or whatever, they didn't - so no advantage was taken of the shorter eng/box. It's a mismatch of the old Sport frame & the new box. There have been & continue to be problems with the V11 which would not have been had the bike been thoroughly developed before sale. Much of V11's style is superficial add-on, independent of function. The Tonti roundheads are not arf-arsed cos.....Their style is a product of function, an integrity of design not found in the V11. Tonti frame still performs well, virtually as originally designed, in today's Calis. That's nearly 35 years. The spine frame is gone (as is the first 6 speed box) already. To give a V11 the structural integrity of an early Tonti would require major re-engineering (all areas back from gearbox). In it's early years the Tonti was dynamically as good as anything else available, winning UK production championship against best the Japs (& anyone else) had. Look at what Dr John was still doing with them in the 80's. Whatever you think of the V11 - performance wise, it was/is nowhere near it's best contempories. I like my Scura & intend to keep it, but there's no question - it's arf-arsed. KB

unsubtle maybe...but fairly accurate.

I was put off Corsas last year cos I was told they wear very fast. I already get too low miles. Mike, could you say roughly in % terms how much less miles you'd get out of Corsa over (std) Diablos, ridden . Do they take longer to warm up? I noticed on track days people seem to be very steady first lap or so, Diablos seem to be good straight off. Thanks, KB