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GuzziMoto last won the day on June 27 2024
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The skinny part of Maryland
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My bike(s)
'07 Griso, '01 V11 Sport, '93 Daytona 4v, '87 650 Lario, Aprilia RXV550 Roadracer project
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Some people like to drive past things, others like to drive through them. I find there is a time and place for each. One of our vehicles is a Jeep, with the top off and doors off you really drive through the world, not past it. Very much like riding a motorcycle, without the need for all the gear. Drop down into a gulch and feel the temp change. Head over a mountain, it changes again. But not everyday, not every trip, is a naked Jeep trip.
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Two of my favorite two stroke experiences were racing a TZ250, which was a lot like the above mentioned TZ350, and a KTM 440 EXC dirtbike. The TZ250 was the classic two stroke, no power, followed by some power as you rev. Then, around 8,000 rpm it started to make noticeable power. At 10,000 rpm it kicked in and went, pulling hard up to around 13,000 rpm where it was done as quickly as it started. That bike was serious fun on a track. My other favorite two stroke was the exact opposite. The KTM 440 was a monster that didn't have to rev to make power. It was almost friendly at idle, but at some point just above idle it turned into a beast. It quickly went from making some power to making massive power. It was a dirtbike, so it didn't have a tach. But it didn't need one. The power was always there. It was a case of too much power being too much fun. I was not really faster on it then I was on my DR350, but my smile when riding it was way bigger. It would plaster a smile on my face the way it yanked me out of corners. It was like the way spaceships hit warp speed or light speed in sci-fi movies. Expansion chambers can make two strokes deliver amazing power. They don't automatically make for a peaky motor, they don't always means power up top. They can make power wherever they are designed to. Thinking of them as acoustic resonance is a good way to look at them. Depending on how they are designed they can make power down low, in the middle, or up top.
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Any reason why rockers would be tight even backed right off?f
GuzziMoto replied to Molly's topic in Technical Topics
The feeling of fresh tires is always nice. The worse the previous tires were the better the new tires feel. I have a few stands, mostly rear wheel stands that lift by the back of the swing arm. Once secured on that stand, getting the front up of the ground on a V11 can typically be done with a jack under the sump. But I make sure the bike is literally tied to the rear stand before doing that. I also have a couple stands that lift the front by the bottom of the forks. I also have a dolly I built with 4 casters and some wood that fits under the sump of a Guzzi. That holds it off the ground and allows me to wheel it around while both wheels are removed. And in extreme cases I have a hoist in the ceiling of my garage that can lift the entire bike off the ground if desired. But that I don't normally do. That is overkill. -
You are free to have that much faith, that much confidence, in Michelin. I do not share your faith and confidence in Michelin. Without even a sign of impending tire failure I don't see a legitimate justification for the current minimum pressure. F1 tires have nothing in common with MotoGP tires. A fundamental issue if you do accept that the minimum pressure limit is justified, is why do their tire perform best at a pressure below what they deem safe. Normally, a tires performance is reduced before it ever gets below what would be considered a safe pressure. For example, when I was racing we would adjust the tire air pressures to get maximum performance out of the tires. At an event down at Roebling Road I mistakenly set the tire air pressure too low. The tires weren't so low they were in danger of failing, but they definitely did not perform well. The tires were sliding around and wearing excessively. That is what you would expect. You would not expect max performance from your tires to occur at a pressure your engineers deem unsafe. I do not except that the minimum pressure rule is justified, but even if you do accept that it makes no sense that the tire works best at a pressure below that supposed safe limit. As to pushing back the introduction of the new front tire, I am not sure that is on Dorna. Michelin announced the push back of the new front tire claiming they needed more testing. Likely that relates to the fact that they can only beat themselves in a spec tire series. The incentive to push the limits is not there. The only incentive to Michelin in a spec tire series is to not screw themselves, to not have tire issues. Introducing a new front tire that turns out is a problem would make Michelin look bad. Not introducing the new front tire until they are sure it is good would make sense. They have nothing to gain by taking a chance. Personally I would rather they roll out development tires alongside the existing tires, allowing riders to choose which tire they want to run. That would also allow them to actually test the new tires under actual race weekend conditions. I think they only have some 30 minutes of actual testing of the new front tire so far. I can see why they are reluctant to commit.
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As Phil said, those hairs won't cause anything. You may want to adjust the air pressure in the tire(s) that feel "squirmy". I would guess lowering the air pressure would be the way to go, but it could also be you need to raise the air pressure a small amount. If you adjust the air pressure, you would typically do it in small steps, maybe a pound or two (not sure what the Bar equivalent would be, likely a tenth of a bar or two). A good way to tell if your air pressure is right is to measure the tires pressure cold and then ride the bike as normal. Stop the ride and check the air pressure while the tires are "hot". That increase in temp causes an increase in pressure. That increase in pressure should be around 10% - 15%. If the tire pressures don't increase enough, lower the tire pressure. If the pressure increases too much cold to hot, add pressure. It could be the tires simply need to bed in, as mentioned tires generally have mold release to help them come out of the manufacturing molds that give the tires their tread pattern. That mold release tends to be slippery.
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As mentioned, they do have minimum pressure, in particular (the one that gets all the attention) is the minimum front tire pressure. Michelin set this minimum, in theory, to stop front tire failures that result from running air pressures too low. It must be said, however, that in the era of Michelin being the spec tire supplier there has not been a tire failure from running too low air pressure in the tire. On the other side of that coin, it turns out that best performance of the Michelin front tire occurs at a pressure below the minimum pressure set by Michelin. That makes no sense. Why would you design a tire that performs best at an air pressure you claim is below safety limits? To further complicate things, whether you are running out in front in clean air or behind another racer has a large impact on how hot your front tire gets, and how hot a tire gets directly affects the air pressure inside that tire (as temp goes up, air pressure goes up). So, racers are left trying to guess what front tire air pressure they need to start the race with to keep their front tire pressure above the minimum set by Michelin for at least 60% of the race. It is a balancing act, too much air pressure and they will be slow. Too little air pressure and they will get a penalty. It is not as simple as set it here or above and you are fine, as your front tire pressure will vary depending on whether you are out front or directly behind someone. This was famously shown recently when Marc Marquez pulled over to let his brother by so he could run directly behind him to bring up his front tire pressure. Once he had done enough of the race with his front tire pressure thus elevated, he passed his brother and ran off in front using a tire with air pressure below the minimum value. The rules are so stupid that what Marc did was perfectly legal. Had Vinales paid better attention to his front tire pressure, they typically have a display on their dash telling them what their front tire pressure is and / or whether it is above the minimum value, he may have avoided leading the laps he led to stay in behind Marc to keep his front tire pressure higher. We don't know the details, because they don't tell us things like how low his pressure was and for how much of the race it was. All we know is that his front tire pressure was below the minimum for more then 40% of the race. What was messed up the most was, they should know all this real time, but they only announced the penalty for Vinales around two hours after the race, after he already stood on the podium and got his second place trophy. The rule is stupid, but that was incompetence.
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It is hard to say what would have happened if Marc wasn't on a factory Ducati. But this is the first race where it may not have been a Ducati winning if Ducati had not signed Marc. Although it could have played out that Vinales won and then had the win taken from him. That would have been seriously cruel. Yes, it was an impressive race from Marc, he had the speed but also the racecraft. However, history is shown that things can change pretty quick, sometimes in a single corner. Vinales has always been a hot or cold racer, some races he shows incredible speed and other races he does not. Sometimes he even shows both in the same race. He really tends to need his ducks to line up to be fast, and he is not that good at lining his ducks up. Look at his results this year prior to this race, 16th, 12th, & 14th. Funny, even though his race was way better this time out after his penalty for the front tire pressure BS he ended up back where he usually is, 14th as I understand it. I would love to see Vinales competitive on a regular basis. But I would not hold my breath. His performance does show that the KTM really isn't that far out, they just need to hit on the right combination of setup. The bike is capable of it, the speed is there. KTM just need to find the right combination of what they have. Currently they are getting that combination wrong, the Michelin tires don't want to work for them (especially the new rear). I have had chatter issue on my front tire, but I have never experienced chatter at the rear. That is bizarre. I hope the coming switch to a different tire manufacturer helps even out the field. The Michelin tire has really become a king maker, with Ducati currently the only manufacturer able to wear that crown. The others are doing what they can with it, but it is always a struggle for them to minimize the issues with the tires. That isn't the best way to have a spec tire series.
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Well, that was the Marc Marquez of earlier this year, the smarter Marc that doesn't ride beyond his limits to make a point. It wasn't the Marc that we saw at COTA. It was a measured and intelligent ride by Marc to take the win. It was not that from his brother, Alex. Although, to be fair, the contact between Marc and Alex was a racing incident that was mainly Marcs fault. And as I understand it Marc said as much. But the way Alex nailed Digi was brutal. Of course, not as brutal as what happened to Jorge Martin. And then, just to remind us how bad the joke is, a fantastic ride by Vinales was screwed because of a lame rule about tire pressures. That continues to be a bad joke. Vinales was likely robbed of a second place because he managed to get out front in clean air and lead the race for some 5 laps or so. That needs to stop. This is perhaps the first race where Ducati's decision to sign Marc Marquez actually paid off. This is the first race that Ducati might not have won had they not signed Marc.
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As I recall the motor is offset like 10 mm in the frame to allow for the width of the rear tire. When Guzzi moved to a wider rear tire with the shaft drive setup they moved the entire engine and trans over to make room for the wider wire instead of offsetting the output of the trans so the drive shaft would clear the wider rear tire. It was easier to do that then redesign the trans. This makes the two mufflers a little wonky, as each connects to the motor (the motor that is now 10 mm off to one side) and that means that one head pipe is in front of the other slightly as well as they are both off center side to side. But in my opinion the rear subframe itself should be centered with the chassis spine frame and centered with the rear tire. Just not exactly centered with the exhaust.
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Any reason why rockers would be tight even backed right off?f
GuzziMoto replied to Molly's topic in Technical Topics
Man, I am too late to this party. But I have to throw in my two cents anyway. My preferred way of choice is to use a straw in the sparkplug hole to find TDC. A straw is rigid enough to feel for the piston but will not hurt anything. And I put the trans in gear and rotate the rear wheel to spin the motor over. That way I never have to worry about whether or not I am rotating the motor in the correct direction. With both plugs out and in a taller gear the motor spins over easy. But to each their own on that. Finally, as have been alluded to, whatever method you are using to find TDC there is always two different TDCs. One where the valves are at overlap and both valves are open and the other where both valves are fully closed. It doesn't matter if you are using the marks on the flywheel, a mark you made on the alternator, an object in the sparkplug hole to find when the piston is at the top of its stroke. There are two different times when the piston is at top dead center, and it will cycle back and forth between TDC with the valves at overlap, then TDC where both valves are closed, then again TDC where both valves are at overlap. If you put it at TDC and the valves do not have clearance, rotate the motor 360 degrees, watching the valves as you rotate. There, I feel better.... -
I won't be surprised at what brand takes pole, I am pretty sure that will be Ducati. But I am way less sure about which rider will be on that pole winning Ducati. There are even more reasons why FP1 was not very meaningful. In addition to the track being dirty and slippery with a distinct lack of grip, FP1 is also held during the day while the sun is up. Where as racing and qualifying will be held after the sun goes down. But FP1 was interesting. One thing was that the top 10 were covered buy 9 thousandths over one second, 1.009 seconds, but the gap between Marc and second fastest was over a half a second (0.513 seconds). Clearly Marc was pushing harder in the slippery conditions then anyone else was willing to push, especially because being fast in those conditions really wasn't going to matter over the course of the weekend. That may bode well for Marc, or it may not. I certainly wouldn't bet against Marc, but I also would not bet on him. It could easily go either way.
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I would think that Aprilia are the ones driving their participation in MotoGP, not Piaggio. I would put that down to Aprilia doing what it can with the amount of independence it has within the larger Piaggio family. And to be fair, given how much less they spend they certainly are punching above their weight. They are getting better results then either Honda or Yamaha despite spending way less then either of those guys. So, while they do make some mistakes here and there that don't make them look great, I would say more often then not their performance in MotoGP makes them look better then they should given what they spend. As they say, fortune favors the brave. Or, no risk no gain. At this track the entire Friday, both first and second practice, are somewhat meaningless as the track is covered in sand and needs to be cleaned and rubbered in from bikes doing laps. It won't be until tomorrow that we start to see who has what. Friday will favor riders who like low traction situations. But it likely won't stay that way all weekend, the traction should improve. I think Martin is just testing the waters since he was denied the ability to do any private testing to see if he is race fit and ready to race. Also, racers race. He won't be the first racer to push coming back early. Racers do that whether they are top level pros or club racers. He has to start coming back at some point, might as well be now.
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Harley-Davidson troubles
GuzziMoto replied to Pressureangle's topic in Special place for banter and conversation
I don't know, I would say HD is very much in the same boat as Ducati. Their bread and butter profits are surely in the higher end market selling to older riders. But they do offer lower end smaller bikes, with bikes in the ten to sixteen grand range. That ain't cheap, but it is not much different then Ducati. And the LiveWire is cool. But anytime a company becomes more about its shareholders then it is about its customers, things tend to go bad. Ironic that this sounds like one guy representing one group of shareholders (the pot) calling the other people representing other shareholders (the kettle) black. -
Piaggio is a pretty big company. But Aprilia is a pretty small part of Piaggio. So it does not get the resources for this that it needs. A classic example is that for much of the time until now Aprilia fielded two MotoGP bikes as required by the rules but they basically had one good one made with the best parts and the other was made with the parts that were left over. When you are custom making parts there are always going to be differences in quality of each part, some will be better and some will be worse. If you have the resources, you throw away the ones that are worse. But if you can't afford that you keep all the parts you make, and then decide which bike you use the worse parts on, saving the better parts for the A bike. Aleix rode the A bike for many years, with whomever was the B rider riding the B bike. There was always a massive difference in performance between the two bikes (actually two sets of bikes, if you want to be correct). It was a massive step for them to start actually fielding two sets of equal bikes. And now they are building four sets, although how equal they are remains to be seen. From what I have heard, as well as what I have seen, a good judge of a teams financial resources is how many people work for it. And Aprilia, for a factory team, has the fewest number of people working for it.
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Yes, in the end the challenge to Ducati may come from Honda or Yamaha. I know everyone was always slamming Honda and Yamaha, but I think they were never that far off the pace. It looked worse then it was because there were so many bikes / riders that were so close together pace-wise. So being a second or two off the pace put you so far back. But in terms of how much performance they needed to gain to be near the sharp end of the field, it just wasn't that much. And given the resources of Honda and Yamaha, along with the concessions that were made for them, it was always a fools errand to believe they weren't going to catch up. It may take them a little while, but they will catch up. Aprilia has always struggled, they simply lack resources. And, as mentioned, they do shoot themselves in the foot periodically by doing things like loading the wrong map into a bike. I put that down to having too few people handling too many tasks. They probably don't have a guy whose one job is to make sure the right map is loaded at the right time. He likely has other jobs, making it easier to mess that job up. But I don't know that for sure, just a guess. It also could be that guy is just not good at his job, but maybe he is family....