GuzziMoto

They are trying to remove the debris from the oil return before it gets back to the sump. Better than relying on the sump screen or having the rusty dust like particles go through the sump screen, scour the pump housing before being captured by the filter. Ciao ...I get that. I'm just wondering if we're over-thinking this. The sump is designed to be where dirty oil is collected, then sent through the pump to the filter. The pump isn't a precision assembly, like say a bearing, and that dirty sump oil is pumped to the filter to get cleaned. Would even significant amounts of debris in the oil harm the pump? I agree it would be better to have cleaner oil returned from the frame/breather if possible, but is it really a problem worth engineering another filter or catch can that could introduce unintended issues such as lack of flow as discussed above, leaks, other? Just posing the question... If one is really concerned about debris in the breather/frame, perhaps do we think the suggestions about cleaning it as well as possible might be the best and simplest approach. Then just use the stock configuration? I do think they are over-thinking this. My experience was that it was a waste of time. I over thought it and went in circles for a little while. Then I put it back to stock and it worked flawlessly. I get the concern over flushing the spine out after a massive engine failure. But beyond that I think it is a waste of time. But just as I wasted a bunch of my time on the same thing, please feel free to do the same. I enjoy trying to make things better than they were, and I would not fault someone else for trying to do the same. And yes, a large tank could be fitted to do the same as the spine does, separating out the oil from the air. But after that, it makes sense to return the oil back to the sump vs having to drain it out every time it fills the tank up. Not to mention the effect on oil level in the sump (although small, there would be an effect). But where would you put such a tank? The spine is already there and a decent size for the purpose.

I tried that with my Daytona (same basic set up). It did not work out well, there was too much oil loss. I wanted it to work as I had issues with the spine frame leaking oil due to poor welding. So I wanted to be able to vent the motor to a catch can like a typical roadrace bike. It did not work out well due to the high amount of oil that was in the air being pumped out. I think it has the whole oil separator set up in the spine frame because it needs a way of separating out the oil from the air. Other big block Guzzi motors have also used a system that separates the oil from the air in a tank. You just need something of sufficient volume. You can also use a media like stainless steel wool to help. But you still have to provide a path for the oil to flow back into the sump. I actually like the Guzzi system, except when the frame is not welded properly and leaks / drips oil. Perhaps your results will be different.

Absolutely. It is my favorite motorcycle ever. It amazed me the first time I rode it. It is a keeper. Perhaps one day I will actually get all the little issues it has resolved. Until then, I will enjoy it as is.

Yeah, but $10.5 K isn't even enough to buy the Guzzi V85 from what I heard.

Since we are now discussing the frame as part of the breather system, I will add this. My Daytona frame was poorly welded and the area that is used for the breather system leaks. I tried a variety of things to resolve it. It would drip every now and then from the underside of the round tube at the end of the square frame section. It seems that where the square frame section is welded to the round tube at the swing arm side of the frame was not welded properly and the weld leaks. I eventually got it to stop leaking by using gas tank sealer epoxy on the inside of the frame section that acts as the breather catch tank. That stopped the slow leak / drip.

$10.5k? Do you think the V85 will be less? Heck, Kawasaki made big news by dropping the price of their 600 Ninja to just under $10k. But it is true that KTMs aren't the cheap option. But my experience is they use quality components so that you get good value for your dollar. Sadly, I think the last new streetbike I bought for less than $10 K was the wife's V11 sport, some 19 years ago. But to be clear, I was trying to separate the 790 Duke from exotics like the "new" Norton Commado, and the Motus. ;-)

Right, just under 100 hp at the rear wheel, that is likely 120 Guzzi hp at the crank ;-) . And a wet weight just over 400 lbs (dry weight aka Guzzi spec weight around 372 lbs). That thing sounds like an absolute blast to ride. The motor itself is incredibly tightly packaged, and yet it has two balance shafts, to help balance the 75 degree offset crank. If we could get those engineers to help Guzzi design motors that could be awesome. There are a few things that are not quite what I would want in a motorcycle, but all in all it is one of the coolest bikes out there for a reasonable amount of money (as in, aside from the Norton Commando's and the like). I am glad Guzzi has a new motor out. It sounds like it is a step in the right direction. But it is still pretty far behind some of the other brands out there. Lucky for Guzzi they do most everything else different than the other brands and that lets them stand out even though their motor design is a bit outdated.

That 790 KTM motor is a beast. The Duke version put down 98 hp for Roadracing World, and actually weighed just over 400 lbs full of fuel and fluids. It gets killed in looks by the Guzzi, but that is about it. KTM was rumored to be looking to buy Ducati, maybe they would buy Guzzi instead. That would potentially be awesome, KTM engineering and Guzzi style..... Or would we end up with Guzzi engineering and KTM style :-(

This is a pic of my two Ducati racebikes. The one on the left with the number 1 on it is a mixture of a Fabian Cortez replica Ducati Sport and a Ducati 750 SS. The motor is Cortez replica (with a bunch of extra work done to it) and the frame is from a 750 SS. The one on the right is the motor from the 750 SS (also with a lot of work done to it) in a custom built Harris Sound of Singles chassis. It was actually featured in an article in American Roadracing back in 1995, although I forget the exact date (you can see the article framed hanging in the background). The Cortez replica was a limited run, but the other is perhaps one of two in this country. But I have only heard rumors of the existence of the other one. I know it took a fair amount of work to get that motor to fit in that chassis.

I assume it is to differentiate the new 4 valve per cylinder bikes from the older 4 valve per cylinder bikes like the Daytona and Centauro. Oddly, at first it seemed they did not want to associate the presumably reliable new motor with the questionably reliable old motor. Then it turned out it was the new motor with the more serious reliability issues. So I think it makes sense. The older 4 valve per cylinder motors were originally called 4 valve motors. So the new 4 valve per cylinder motors get called 8 valve motors, referring to the total number of valves. It is actually fairly normal to refer to the total number of valves in a motor. Many other motors are referred to as 16 valve motors, 24 valve motors, or 32 valve motors. So really the odd one is that the older motors were known as 4 valve motors.

We have four Guzzi's, two of them have 4 valves per cylinder and two are 2 valve motors (a Griso and a V11sport). The V11 has some motor work, porting and milling, and it runs pretty good. It is faster than the newer 2 valve Griso. But honestly, my Daytona with the older style 4 valve motor is my favorite. It has a hot rod feel and more power than any of the other three. But all four of them are great bikes to ride, even the little baby Guzzi Lario. If I had to sell one, it would have to be the Griso. But I am not sure I could. But that KTM 790 Duke is very tempting, not so much for the look but for that motor. What a sweet motor. Such a tiny package with near 100 hp at the rear wheel. Wow. None of my Guzzi's could run with that. But yeah, the way Guzzi's pull in the mid range is what they are about. Way back when I was riding the wife's V11 on the street with a couple buddies, one of them was on an R1. He could not believe how much the V11 just pulled him coming out of the corners. Sure, the R1 could run it down once it got up and going, but that first pull out of the corners was all about the V11.

“Sadly never got” sounds like a demeaning comment , no I’m happy with my 2v, not sad at allMaybe you could go back to Wildguzzi Easy there. Pete is one of the best Guzzi mechanics I know of. The last thing we would want is for him to not hang out on this board. I have a 2 valve Griso. I like it. But I kinda' get what Pete meant, that the extra power of the 8 valve motor would make for more fun. I just wish they didn't do such a bad job with the engineering of the 8 valve motor. As it is, I have mixed emotions about having an older 2 valve Griso. I would love the extra power, but I am glad my Griso never ate its valve train.

Only if it can breathe in and out at the rpm. More rpms is a good way to improve hp without needing more torque. But for it to work you have to be able to rev it that much higher without torque dropping off because it can't breathe. Most bikes today tend to actually start loosing power before they run out of rpms. It is hard to make it breathe at higher rpms without hurting power at lower rpms. It is something of a conundrum you might say. I would expect that the 80 hp number is both at the crank and optimistic. My best guess is it likely has perhaps 60 at the rear wheel at best. It isn't that you can't make more power from an air cooled two valve per cylinder motor, our Ducati 750 twins made around 80 at the rear wheel. They rev'd to around 10 grand to get there. But they would not likely pass emissions......

I am not sure about the looks of the 790 Duke, but I love its attitude. It would be on my short list if I kept such a list.

I really don't like Honda's. I have owned a couple, but in the end I am never happy with them. But I really wish I had bought a GB500 when they were cheap. That was a cool bike. But they are way too expensive now. And nothing in Honda's current line up is that cool. Yamaha is doing some interesting things. And KTM has the new 790. And if my garage wasn't already full I would be looking at a few bikes out there, including the V4 Tuono. But between the four Guzzi's the one Aprilia, and the MP3 scooter, my garage is full. My KTM 440 has to live in the shed. But dirtbikes do OK in sheds....

I think every Moto Guzzi is rare. None of them are made in high numbers. Our '87 Lario, rare. Our '93 Daytona, rare. Our V11 sport, rare. Even our '07 Griso, rare. They are all limited production. But I am not sure the demand will ever be there to make them real collectors items. Limited numbers aren't all that is needed for that, there also has to be demand. While I think very highly of all four of our Guzzi's, I realize that most motorcycle people don't. But I am OK with that. Honda Hawks and GB500s are really cool bikes, but they became "hip" and prices went up too high. Great if you already own one, not great if you want one. But with increased value often comes fear of wrecking it. And that can lead to riding it less. And that is bad. And if it becomes "cool" enough, it has to suffer the embarrassment of being a "hipster" bike. God no. So let Guzzi's continue to be below everyones radar. I am good with that.

And that is where I got my "GUZZI" valve covers for my Griso. They seem like good folk. I may have to buy one as much to support them as to have another tool. After all, I now have two tool boxes....

I have two sets, one for the wife's V11 and one for my Daytona, sitting on the shelf waiting for me to find the time to install them. So, I am interested and would love to see more pictures. Maybe it will motivate me, although our basement flooded and now the garage is full of cr@p from the basement so I don't really have the room to do the work. But still interested.

You lucky B@stard! I am so jealous. I know there were issues with that whole package, but that is (to me) one of those landmark moments in motorcycle history. It is like the Guzzi V8. Even though it went no where in the end it was still a brilliant moment in motorcycle engineering. That is another landmark motorcycle, and I hate Honda's. But that, along with the RC30 and other Honda V4's, showed that back then Honda had some brilliant engineers. I wonder where those guys work nowadays....

Dyno's can be funny. It is hard to compare readings from one dyno / dyno operator to another. It has been a very long time, but as I recall the wife's V11 had around 72 - 75 hp at the rear wheel stock and after some work it was up just over 80 hp at the rear wheel. My '07 Griso made about 6 hp less on the same dyno at the same time (or about what hers made stock).

I actually like what Norton is doing, and wouldn't mind having one at all. But I am something of an idiot when it comes to bikes, and the Norton I would really love to have is one of their rotary racebikes from the IoMTT. Is the V4 still based on the Aprilia motor? Not a bad motor in its own right..... But I heard they were supposed to come up with their own V4 and the early versions using the Aprilia V4 were just a stop gap. I do like V4's.

I learned to use two finger, the first and second fingers, racing. It allows you to use the other two to blip the throttle to rev match while braking hard into a corner. Not really that useful on the street, but I still tend to do it like that. It works better , though, when you have brakes that require less effort. It does not work well (the two finger technique) on our Lario. That takes at least three, and sometimes four, fingers to squeeze the brakes hard enough with those old style disc brakes. I have seen people with modern brakes who are able to use just one finger to brake. Something else to add into the equation is that matching the available force to the force required (i.e., using two or three fingers if that is all that is required) can make it harder to lock the brakes in a panic stop situation. If you think about it, if I can easily lock the brakes using four fingers and I use four fingers, in a panic situation it is likely I will lock the brakes. If I use two fingers, and with two fingers it is much harder to lock the brakes, it is less likely I will lock the brakes in a panic situation. That has been my experience. Your experience may vary from mine. Using the two outboard fingers may be a variation of that. Using those two fingers would likely reduce the power you can apply to the lever and thus reduce the likely-hood of locking the brakes. As long as you can still apply enough force to stop in the required time....

I had an experience last month on the interstate that has me agreeing. Heavy traffic, changing lanes to pass at 80 mph, car came into my lane and hit the brakes. A too quick grab of the brake locked up the front tire long enough for a loud screech. Scary but reassuring. how's the foot Dave? Here is the thing, better brakes aren't just about more power. Better brakes can give you more control as well. A stiffer, firmer brake lever that gives you better control of how much brake you apply as well as offering more braking power can be a good thing. On a side note, do you brake with one, two, three, or four, fingers?

Yep, I guess it is out of date by quite a few years. We also have a Lario, a 650 Lario. Great little small block, as long as it doesn't drop a valve. It was originally for the wife, she wanted a smaller bike for around town riding. But then my sister in-law decided to sell her 1100 Monster, and my wife always wanted a Monster. So, the wife got the Monster and I used that to justify the Lario going my way. Consider my profile updated.

I am also a fan of the Centauro, but I don't own one. I do have a Daytona, and if it wasn't for the fact that I have too many Guzzi's already I would likely be trying to find a Centauro to buy, But we have 4 Guzzi's already and don't have the room for a fifth. A two car garage doesn't seem as big as it sounds. Even with no cars in it I don't have enough room.