craigsinclair

Sorry, been away from here for a long time. Still have the bike. Still works great. As noted from the other response (also a long time ago) (but thought all the information should be in the same place) I had to get the clutch push rod machined down at the clutch end. I had them make it symmetrical; both ends have matching diameter and depth steps in them, and it worked perfectly.

I was having different shifting woes, like the clutch wasn't fully disengaging and putting drag on the gear box making it hard to downshift without blipping the throttle. Bled the clutch and changed the springs in the gear box and fresh gear oil didn't make a difference so I assumed a warped bit of clutch somewhere. 2001 Rosso Mandello with 32000kms on it. No sign of cracking or damage on the alloy freewheel. I replaced it with the 5spd RAM clutch (6 speed no longer available when I did it, but essentially the same thing) and it has worked great over 2000kms, all shifting problems are gone.

I think I've found the easiest installation, but I've had an issue, not related to the installation though. I left the threaded rings off the back of the Speedhut gauges and simply put a small bead of clear silicon around the base of the bevel and laid them into the dash and let them sit overnight to dry in place. And then I took the original back cover, unmodified and ran a heavier bead of silicon around the exposed threads on the back of the Speedhut gauges, and then slid the back cover in place on the back and lightly clamped it in place until the silicon dried. It was kind of flawless, as in, it helps water resist the setup, but the back/protected areas and holes are all still in place to let moisture out and resist condensation. Only problem is, the front bezel wasn't quite tight from Speedhut, and the dial has spun inside the housing, and because my install is semi-permanent my solution has been an electrical tape redline. My thinking was that I wasn't going to remove these things unless they stopped working. Now I'm faced with a lot of coaxing these things apart to first loosen the bezel, realign the dial, and then tighten it up extra good. Maybe I'll put a dot of glue on there for good measure. I've ridden them like this for a year, no issues, no separation, it's been a good, clean install, except for that drifting face. I was cursing myself at first, I've never been so careful as to make sure something was straight and aligned, and when it was only a little bit out I thought I had messed it up. But then it got worse.

I recently did the swap as well. Zero indications that the aluminum flywheel was about to fail. But I was having shifting issues which I'm nearly certain was due to clutch drag. FWIW, after swapping out the gear selector springs, new gear box oil, bleeding the clutch lever, and putting in the RAM clutch replacement, the bike has never shifted better or smoother. Worth it for that, and peace of mind that I was no longer sitting on a time bomb.

#1: Enlarging any "push button" would best be done with an end mill, not a drill bit. My thinking: best left alone. #2: One of the greatest things about the RAM unit is it comes complete, assembled, and balanced. Taking it apart (to change the push button) defeats those advantages. After sorting through all the efforts, it seems time to derive a specification to modify the 6speed (hydraulic actuation) push rod -> 5speed clutch push button. (craigsinclair got it really close:http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=19621&p=215047 "It is already machined down at the actuator end, and unmachined at the clutch end. The OD is 8.0mm except at the end where it's been machined down to 6.0mm. Placing the 8.0mm end into the original clutch and the 6.0mm end into the new clutch I get what feels like the same amount of play, but my calipers don't reach far enough down into the new clutch to actually measure the opening. The machined length of the actuator end is maybe 0.5mm longer than the depth of the hole on the new RAM clutch. I suspect that if I get it machined so that it's symmetrical it will fit in nicely." Chiming in a bit late here, but, yes. I took the original push rod into a machine shop and asked them to "make it symmetrical." I haven't put a lot of miles on the reassembled clutch, but 700kms or so in and it works flawlessly (late start to the season, been riding my other motorcycle more) All the shifting problems I was having are gone. It shifts better than it ever has in my experience with it. I'd suggest machining the push rod is easier than the receiver in the clutch. Plus, easier/cheaper to replace if it gets screwed up during the process.

Update... I probably should have taken more photos of the process but there are already a few threads documenting the removal of the engine. I went out the front, removing the engine and leaving the rear end in place. For the record, the 5 speed clutch replacement kit from MG Cycle is an almost seamless fit as a replacement for the single plate clutch in a 2001 V11 Rosso. I did get the end of the clutch push rod machined down at a local shop and everything engaged as it should. I found, going through it, 4 or 5 missing fasteners from trim pieces and fenders etc. And the steel bracket that holds the horn in place next to the oil rad had snapped so I welded and repainted it. I replaced the 3 springs in the gear actuator at the same time, because it was easy while everything was apart, and the parts were cheap. I only had to make one tool, a bit of a wrench/notch type tool that held onto the starter ring so I could undo the bolts holding the clutch on the engine. End result, All the shifting issues I was having are gone. 95% sure it was the clutch that was dragging and causing the transmission to bind when changing gears. Took it for a short test run and it shifted better than it has in years and, with all the bolts replaced and the broken bracket rewelded, no more rattles.

New rods are cheap - and used ones even cheaper. So getting your original one machined is low-risk - you can always replace it. FWIW - It seems safer to machine the rod. I think there may be a risk of weakening the "receiver" if you drill into it. I suspect there's enough material in the clutch to machine it out, but it seems easier to get the rod machined. It is hardened steel though so the shop is going to get out the ceramic insert for their lathe and turn it down for me tomorrow or the day after. I'm out of town so there won't be any updates for a bit. Oh, and 35000kms on the original clutch and no signs of cracking. Still, I'm glad I'm choosing to do the replacement rather than having the decision made for me.

At the risk of posting the most boring photograph ever, this is the clutch push rod: It is already machined down at the actuator end, and unmachined at the clutch end. The OD is 8.0mm except at the end where it's been machined down to 6.0mm. Placing the 8.0mm end into the original clutch and the 6.0mm end into the new clutch I get what feels like the same amount of play, but my calipers don't reach far enough down into the new clutch to actually measure the opening. The machined length of the actuator end is maybe 0.5mm longer than the depth of the hole on the new RAM clutch. I suspect that if I get it machined so that it's symmetrical it will fit in nicely.

It appears to just be a straight stainless steel rod. It would be cheaper to replace if it got screwed up somehow, that for sure, since the pressed in bit of metal in the clutch is proprietary and more complex. I was leaning that way as well, especially since it wouldn't affect the interface at the end of the rod (pointy drill bits creating a pointy hole, and potential for drilling a bit too far)

Bringing this one back, because I'm finally finding some time to get around to working on this thing. As was suggested, the receiver for the clutch push rod is smaller on the 5 speed RAM than the original version, but it is a pressed in steel bit. The receiver from the original clutch isn't interchangeable. So I have two options: 1. drill out the receiver to the larger diameter 2. take the push rod into a machine shop and have the end of it turned down to the right size Thoughts? RAM 5 speed with pressed in metal insert: OEM, different and not interchangeable:

It's been ordered. I'm in Canada and MG Cycle isn't so it might be a couple of weeks before Canada Customs lets me have it. MG Cycle did mention that I'd have to re-use my input hub but didn't mention a need to change the clutch push rod. My email exchange with them suggested; "We've only recently discovered that the RAM kit for 5 speeds differs from that for 6 speeds only because of the input gear (hub)." I'll certainly take pictures and post them here.

The guys at MG Cycle have assured me this kit will seamlessly replace the clutch assembly in my 2001 Rosso and is in stock. And they suggested it's about half the price of replacing the existing single plate clutch with an OEM dual plate clutch.

More on that topic, with an interesting picture here:http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=19510&page=2&do=findComment&comment=211566Aluminium alloys do not have a fatigue limit like steel, so every power stroke leads the aluminum flywheel inexorably closer to eventually cracking. Then the cracks join hands. Then "pop". Or is it "grind grind clatter"? I don't know 'cause I have a two plate clutch. The fear of God has been put in me. That, and I suspect the problem has been the clutch all along, it was the shop that steered me down the path of clutch bleeds and gear selectors, though it was time to do both of those too so no regrets there. I'm going to order a clutch replacement kit today. Thanks.

The bike has 35000kms on it, the problem has developed in the last 1000kms. Nothing was taken apart and reassembled as the problem arose so I'm pretty sure it's not interference with the starter housing from a misassembled linkage. When I took the linkage off the bike to get to the gear selector it was bind-free, everything was loose. Regardless, once the shift resistance has been overcome it shifts with ease in both directions, it's only if I pull the clutch in while the driveline is loaded (accelerating or decelerating) that the transmission jams. It's like pulling in the clutch doesn't unload the transmission, and if I blip the throttle with the clutch lever pulled in the bike will react for a half second (lurch forward) until the transmission disengages which is why I think it's in the clutch somewhere. It's consistent, as in it happens with every decelerating downshift. The preselector runs smoothly off the bike. None of the springs were misshapen or damaged, but I've replaced all three "just because." It's the older model without the banana plate. And now that it's back on the bike it seems to run through the gears smoothly. And the clutch has been thoroughly bled. Maybe it will be fine upon complete reassembly, but the fact I haven't seen anything wrong with the parts I've serviced makes me think the problem hasn't been addressed. And checking in here on the forum seemed smart because it would have been nice to get a "this is the problem" while the bike was still apart. I'm going to try turning in the screw on the clutch lever at the master cylinder to see if actuating the clutch a bit more solves the problem. Maybe the master cylinder is the problem? But what it really feels like to me is that pulling in the clutch doesn't unload the transmission which is causing the shifter to bind against loaded gears. 35000kms is a fair bit of mileage, but it's been mostly on the highway so not a lot of clutch play. It's the single plate clutch too, which Moto Guzzi didn't stick with for long so maybe there's issues with that as well. OK. Back in the shop tonight, we'll see what happens after it's all back together. Thanks for the input.

2001 Rosso Mandello. OK, I'm going to try to describe the problem. When down shifting, when letting the engine "brake", the bike will slow down and when I go to downshift I'll pull in the clutch and go to shift down a gear and the shifting mechanism is "jammed." If I blip the throttle I can shift down no problem. My mechanic suggested that the clutch needed to be bled, or that the it was over-shifting. And it might need shift springs. So I've bled the clutch and replaced the shift springs. Plus, if I were to prematurely pull in the clutch on an upshift I would get the same binding. It can't overshift in both directions? Warped pressure plate? It's a single plate clutch. If the bike is in gear, I can pull in the clutch and if I go to push the bike I can feel it overcoming the drag in the transmission, like the clutch is still engaged but as the coefficient of friction is overcome the bike breaks past the friction and rolls smoothly. Truthfully, I've replaced all three shift springs, gear box oil, and bled the clutch. I haven't actually finished putting it back together again but I'm not confident that these steps have fixed the problem. Thoughts?

It was that thread that convinced me to invest in Speedhut gauges. I get it, that it's poetic, or romantic, or some how "right" to keep the bike in original spec, but there's no two ways about it, the Veglia gauges weren't that good. I thought about eBay hunting etc to find a working gauge to replace mine but couldn't get over the idea that it would also probably fail at some point in the (potentially near) future. If it makes you feel better, Veglia has a long history of failing in Fiats and Ferraris as well.

I had contacted Palo Alto about getting my gauges fixed and they said they don't fix them anymore. Response in full: I am sorry but we do not have parts for the 2001 MotoGuzzi instruments. The manufacturer does not support the product with parts or information. I am not sure who to refer you to. Sorry that we are not able to help you. Hartmut C. Mees Palo Alto Speedometer, Inc. 718 Emerson Street Palo Alto, CA 94301-2410 Though if they have gauges to use as a parts source, maybe they can fix them. I might guess it's the same part that fails in each gauge?, a broken gauge might just have the same broken part in it that you need to fix your broken gauge. But... Maybe you should buy the fully refurbed tacho and working speedo off of Knumbnutz and install them as working units and hold on to your old ones for parts when the new ones fail. And they will fail. They all fail. Mine have failed. Your's have failed. They are crap gauges. They look great. I wish they worked, but maybe the smart move is to look for an alternative? I've ordered Speedhut gauges. They do full custom faces for them, you could probably send them your old gauges and they could copy them. I've asked them to do custom graphics, I stopped short at having them put the Veglia logos on them. I didn't think they deserved to have their name on my motorcycle. But I think these will do the bike justice. They are going to put a yellow hash at 7 and red at 8k revs, like the Veglias. And a life time guarantee.

Always loved the origami-esque appearance of these. Sad to see they don't make them anymore. I'm not one for vintage bikes, but if someone else were to fix and maintain it, like this bike, I'd love to take it for a spin... But dream bike? For real? I own it already. 2001 Rosso Mandello.