raceboy

Hey all, After reading and re-reading the posts from the first go-round on this topic, as well as reading other threads and visiting Paul's FastGuzzi site and others; It got me to thinking! (Could be dangerous). I know I'll get some adverse feedback on this but I'm sure others would be interested and hopefully can contribute with useful information. So I'll layout my idea and see what happens. I just recently bought myself CNC Mill, I've also met an aircraft certified welder / fabricator who is willing to play with me and my ideas. At the very worst this will serve two purposes but the third purpose is the target; 1) to put my new mill through its paces, 2) so I can get some practice and 3rd) so the V11 handles better and is more stable when pushed hard. This will not be a quick project probably take me most of the fall season and into the winter months. Ok ready here goes.............. To address the problem of the V11 having a short swing-arm and not positioned in the optimum location (the pivot lining up with the U-Joint). I will attempt to remake the 'Pork Chops' with the pivot point relocated and to also encompass more adjustability in foot pegs and controls. Of course to go along with this I will need to make a new swing-arm rather than modifying the OEM steel swing-arm. I'm hoping as a positive side affect I will also loose some weight in the process... (may also give an opportunity to relocate battery, lower). As a starting point I will use Paul M measurements; adding 60 mm to swing-arm length, moving swing-arm pivot 70 mm forward, and also moving the pivot point down to line up with the shaft U-joint (I don't know what that measurement is at this time). The stock shock location / position / dimensions will not be altered at this time. I'm using the Ohlins dimensions of 286 mm eye to eye length. Now, during this excessive exercise NO original V11 parts will altered, cut, reworked or otherwise mangled in any way by my hand; so if it all goes to CRAP I can put it all back together in original configuration. But if it seems to be working out I will proceed and alter the front steering head to 24 or 25 degrees from the original 26 degrees on my long frame V11. The material to be used will be aluminum, and the grade(s) will be 6061 for the pork chops and 7075 for the swing-arm. I will attempt to make the swing-arm with as few welds as possible.... I know more wastage but should provide more strength. Any ideas, suggestions, comments, advice, help, pictures, etc on any or all aspects of this project would be greatly appreciated, of course collaboration would be most welcome. Raceboy

As I posted elsewhere (24/7 forum) I desperately need a new shock.... the stock shock is the Sachs. My thought is the replacement shock should be to the Ohlins dimensions with longer eye-to-eye length & longer stroke. The end result should raise the rear end and hopefully sharpen the steering some. As I understand it, the long framed bikes have no other differences between Sachs and Ohlins equipped bikes. Raceboy

When I called and spoke with Klaus he did mention he had a V11 in his shop at that time, so it seems it was your bike he was using as test mule. He did say to me that his shock (X506 series) is with Steel body and that is what keeps the price down compared to Penske or Ohlins. I need a shock and was about to order a Penske until I spoke to Klaus, so I'll wait and see what the results are with your shock & YSS. I'm curious; did you spec your shock to the dimensions of the Ohlins or the Sach/Boge shock? I don't think there should be a problem changing the dimensions of the shock since long frame V11's came with both options. I have the Sachs shock, but would like have my new shock to the dimensions of the Ohlins (longer eye to eye length and stroke length). Raceboy

As far as I can tell after getting on the website http://www.realgaskets.com/files/motorcycle.htm#motoguzzi They don't have gaskets for the V11. Raceboy

Just to be clear. When Specs are given for valve clearances as RH has given above; I assume the industry standard is the first number represents the INTAKE valve and the second number the EXHAUST. Raceboy

I have a Rizoma bar end mirror http://www.rizoma.com/Prodotti/ProdottiUni...?ID_categoria=1 go to bottom of page, the REVERSE RETRO". Works quite good no matter the riding position. Although still buzzy at certain RPMs. I'm wondering if maybe putting lead shot into the clip-ons may help. Has anyone tried this? Raceboy

I seem to recall seeing a front crossover removal job on the V11 forum last year. The end result was very clean. What this chap did was cut/grind the spigots off and had a welder seal up the holes nicely with a perfectly cut piece of stainless and ground smooth. This is exactly what I will be doing in the very near future. Any loss or difference in the torque curve I will learn to ride around and / or deal with and hopefully the Stucchi x-over will help. I shall post pics and results when complete. raceboy

Yes yes. Details please. Does the hugger go all the way down to the base of the swing arm? Where did you get it? Can you show a few more pics? Raceboy

I spent part of the day yesterday hunting around a couple of motorcycle scrap yards to see if can find any suitable hangers from other bikes, the closest I came was from older R6. I think I will just make my own on the mill. I will post the pics when I'm done. Keep the shiny side up! John

Hi All, I'm sure most agree about the uselessness of the V11 rear hugger/mudguard, and it also looks like shit! Has anyone come up with any suitable replacement option??? Raceboy

I just came across YSS suspension in NJ and spoke to a tech there who came gave me a brief rundown of their product(s). Same features as Ohlins & Penske but about $250.00 cheaper. The main difference is they use a 50 mm Steel body where as Ohlins & Penske use a 46 mm Aluminum body. Anyone familiar with YSS; thoughts, comments, critique, etc. Cheers all, Raceboy

The stock brackets had a bend so the exhaust would clear the swing arm & rear drive. The Sport 1100 look like they are flat, with no bend. If you lay them on the table they just lay flat on the table. Raceboy

Slavomir, Do those brackets lay flat?

I've been eyeing many of the V11s' with High Mounted pipes, I think they add to the visual appeal of the overall package. The V11 owners who bought the Guzzi Ti kit got a pair of high mount brackets (apparently Daytona 1000 / 1100 / Sport parts) which also have the passenger foot peg bracket built in. I went to the Canadian importer and he checked the parts listings to get me a price ($90/ea....YIKES!) yes Guzzi I know, but also that there was no stock and could not tell me if and / or when they would even be available. So my questions is this.... What other options do I have?????? Maybe something from another bike (any bike Jap, European, etc.) that fits or at least close. I could make a set of brackets but I want the rear pegs. So any ideas, suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Raceboy

Paul, Ok that makes more sense about the Steering head angle. Maybe I didn't explain myself about the shock mount clearly. I think I should have said the dimension between shock mount points (distance between swing arm shock mount point and frame shock mount point when the bike is in a static position). To illustrate further.... For arguments sake lets say that a V11 in a static state has a distance of 'X' cm between the shock mount on the swing arm and the shock mount on the frame. If you add 60 mm to the front of the swing arm (Point to point dimension is now X + 60mm), then you move the pivot point 70mm forward (Point to point dimension is now (X+60 mm - 70 mm) for a net result of X-10 mm dimension between the shock mounting points. In my mind this tells me that if the shock length does not change this will in turn jack the rear of the bike up to make up the 10 mm. I hope I'm making sense..... Cheers,

Paul, I've been thinking about your post and was wondering that the changes you have made to the "front" of the swing arm and the relocated "pivot" now relocates the shock mount point 10mm forward therefore jacking up the rear of the bike (if the shock length is not altered). Am I correct? Did you make new side plates to relocate the pivot point? I don't understand this comment..... "My steering head was 64 degrees in now 66"; Please explain. Raceboy

The bike looks great. I sent you a msg.

Great pic with the Kneedown. Ok, so I understand all of this, for the 730mm forks to work within the the V11 setup, the steering head angle needs to change (1 degree steeper)...... Correct?? Also the yoke offset should be brought down to 35mm from the original 40mm....... Correct?? And lastly the Swing arm should lengthened 30mm or 40mm forward and 20mm to the rear...... is that correct? Seems simple enough, good winter project. Cheers

Thanks mille108. This makes finding suitable replacement forks a little difficult. What options available to get around this issue?? I noticed on your project you used forks from a MV. I don't imagine the are the 770mm length.

Yikes!! What happened here?? I leave you guys alone in the sandbox for a day to ride and do take care of a few things and I come back to find almost WWIII going on. No matter. Some of you (Paul, Mille108 a few others) have some good technical information and that is what I'm looking for. judging by what some have written, I don't think they have read and / or understood my first 2 or 3 posts. I'm new to Guzzi and this forum and have come here for information from fellow Guzzi riders with more history & experience riding a Guzzi and specifically a V11. I'd like to continue with the technical aspects of the V11. Now lets get on with it & everyone play nice!! Are the forks on a V11 longer than the current or typical fork length? I'm assuming that is another reason that some guys (Paul & mille108) had to alter the steering head angle? V11 in a nutshell as I understand it; - the basic frame is good, - the engine could breathe a little better, - the whole electronic package is barely acceptable, - the swing arm & steering angle could use some help, - the suspension components should be upgraded, - and the overall bike needs to go on a diet. Is that about it? I knew I picked myself a good platform to start with. We'll leave the motor for another time. Cheers, Raceboy .....(maybe at 50 I should change it to Raceman)

Paul I'd be interested in more details on the geometry and the V11 bike itself, if possible. In your previous post you mentioned shorter yokes, do you mean the offset is shallower? Also extending the swing arm and moving the pivot point, did you use a new or different swing arm or did you modify the stock unit. Details please?? Raceboy

Maybe I should have explained myself a little better. I bought a Moto Guzzi V11 for one reason and one reason only..... Because it is a Moto Guzzi. When I was endurance racing during the 80's I fell in love with that brute of an bike from Dr. John Wittner. Since then I've always wanted one, and last year finally bought one. I'm just glad I didn't race in the GTO class against Dr J's Guzzi. I'm not trying to take a 2004 V11 and re-create the latest R1-CBR-GSXR-ZX track ripping beast. I'm not even trying to recreate Dr. John's Guzzi. I just want a cool and enjoyable bike to blast some country twisties up here, some sport touring (Guzzi Rallies), maybe head down to the cafe and pose with a chick on the back (insert wet dream here) and the occasional lap on the track................................... BUT let me make it clear. If I want to turn fast laps, on a race track, on a race bike, on race slicks I will use either my open class MX motor in a TZ 250 frame or my new Aprilia RS125........ Can YOU SaY YYEEEEHHAAAAAAAA opps sorry wrong forum. I thought I would ask and get into an interesting discussion, throw some ideas around and if something reasonable comes out it I might even try it. Making a swing arm ... maybe. Designing and constructing a new frame..... only if I had a spare motor and was putting it on the track, and at this age can't be bothered anymore. I'm not into the bling-bling factor; well save for the Rizoma bar-end mirror. I only buy or make parts that serve to improve in what ever capacity from the original part used. I know a swing arm swap is a major undertaking for most, and for some bolting on a carrier or luggage case is a major project that requires a dealers help. I'm not suggesting that we all go broke and crazy to build the ultimate Guzzi.... someone beat us to it; MGS-01. Umm, so lets continue.... Cheers, aka JohnnyTheBoy ...... if anyone knows what movie that was from they get a cookie

Thanks dlaing for your thoughts. I have the 2004 V11 which I believe has the extra bracing (frame to engine down low at back of engine) and has the longer wheelbase as dlaing explained. By the way, what did Guzzi change to make the later V11's longer in the wheel base... steering angle, frame, swing arm??? Yes no doubt the V11 needs to go on a diet which I'm slowly working on and hopefully wheels will be included. Also something else that dlaing mentioned is weight re-allocation or re-distribution i.e. the battery. This exercise helps to fine tune the handling of a bike. Generally when a new Japanese sport / super bike has an issue with the swing arm (strength / geometry, etc.) someone specs a new swing arm to deal with the issue(s) and everyone is happy. Has anyone designed a new swing arm for the V11??? The trick is to know what the new dimensions should be. I have no problem in making a swing arm, I've made two in the past for my race bikes.... (not pretty but worked). The steering head angle can be changed by swapping out stock bearings for the 1 degree offset head bearings or cut and re-weld the head stock, more time consuming than expensive. I am curious about the 'Pork Chop' rework and the drilling of the 'Cushdrive'. I'd like to hear more about that. I've searched high and low for a new O.E.M. Ohlins shock without luck, so I'm in the process of getting ready to buy a Penske shock. I will deal with the front forks once the new shock is in place. This should take care of the basics of V11 handling. (By the way, if anyone knows where I can find a new O.E.M. Ohlins SPEAK NOW!!!) I recently bought a large 'Hobby' CNC Milling Machine. Should be setup as soon as the space is cleared out. I'm looking forward to making some goodies for the V11. I have some ideas but always looking for suggestions and / or drawings. Cheers Eh! Raceboy

Hey boys & girls, I've read on this forum that the V11 the ride/handling is acceptable, but if pushed harder the V11 tends show its suspension short comings. Now, I have read all (or most) info regarding fork and shock setup etc.; but the the topic I would like to get into is not so much component setup but the 'Geometry' of the V11. The comments relate to the length of the swing arm and the front steering head geometry. What are the thoughts regarding the swing arm? What should or can be done? How should have Guzzi designed it? Thoughts about the front steering head/fork geometry? May be some of the guys who have raced the V11 over the years and have done work along these lines can contribute as well. Where can this info be obtained? Looking forward to everyone's thoughts. Cheers, Raceboy

Good Day folks, Interesting topic and great banter as always, some good experimentation going on. One question............. Can someone explain 'Thermal Inertia'? Just a thought about the 'air gap'; I'm wondering if the air gap is a function time, time to sense / time to react ... the time required to heat the air in the available gap / space / volume of air????? Or should there be an air gap at all. .......... or not! Cheers, Raceboy.