Kiwi_Roy

LowRyter, It's hard to determine from the symptoms you describe whether you have an electrical problem or just a flat battery I suggest you give it a charge, scrape the posts and apply some Vaseline. With a meter or test-light look for 12 Volts in the relay sockets pin 30, if you pull the relays out one at the time each 30 terminal should be alive, for relay 3 you will need the key On Relay 3 is the most likely to give you problems, I suggest you short it out by wrapping a strand of fine wire around the 30 & 87 pins Have someone watch the tail-light as you try to start, it should stay On Report Back

The white wire is the charge light, ground it and the light comes on, hence the flicker if it gets wet It could also be tracking across at another wet spot

The Charge and Oil pressure lights have 12 Volts on one pin and the other is pulled to ground to turn the lamp On This is probably a case of the wet causing the bulb to ground out, the same thing will happen to the oil pressure light if you let the switch insulator get too dirty in the wet. This is particularly noticeable with LED lamps as they need so little current to turn on.

Or bed Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Pressureangle said "Wow last post 10 years ago" Raz, the guy who started that thread in 2008 kindly sent me his map which he developed for the MyECU for his bike with the same pipes as mine, It ran nicely on my bike, in fact it was still in the bike when I sold it. I called it my Razmap The MyECU came as a kitset of individual parts you had to solder together long before Guzzidiag was available, the Map was loaded using a laptop with a serial port (before USBs), I believe it currently uses Bluetooth from an Android device which also gives you a handy window into the ECU. Cliff did a great job, his site has a good tutorial on how it works. www.myecu.biz

Does/did your bike come with an electric petcock? Just trying to figure out which of Carl's schematics to use the 1999 or 2004 Please give a better description of the Start Button symptom A small lamp wired from the petcock fuse (or relay 4 pin 87) to chassis will be a big help in figuring out the problem. The side-stand relay No 3 dropping out would effect your 1 & 2 Do you still have the stand cutout? Do you have some spare relays? Meanwhile poke something tiny into each of the relay sockets to make sure the connectors are secure and not pushing out the back.

Sorry I got all messed up with Tapatalk this morning on the train. There are many different problems with the starter, most of them easily fixed Does it always fail or just intermittently? Do you hear anything like a quiet click from the relay? - "Startus Interuptus" A loud clack from the solenoid but no turning? - possibly bad battery or battery connections or ground connection or loose magnets? Nothing at all? - Probably the bullet connectors as Docc mentioned Around 2003 they changed the solenoid wiring to feed the Start Relay pin 30 through the ignition switch (before that pin 30 was fed from a fuse direct from the battery), this is the main cause of "Startus Interuptus" for all the later model Guzzis right up to the present day. The starter solenoid draws 40 - 50 Amps while it is engaging the gear or at least it would like to, if there is too much resistance in the switch it will not engage, all you hear is the relay clicking and perhaps a bit of a grunt from the solenoid, you will read about the "Startus Interuptus Fix" which is basically wiring it back to direct from the battery. It's very easy to clean the switch, it's held onto the key with 2 Phillips screws from underneath, for safety disconnect the battery negative lead, remove the Phillips screws and switch, remove the back, release the odd clip and tilt out the white switch plate, wipe off all the old grease and replace it with Vaseline. When you reattach the back fix the wires so they don't bend where they are soldered to the white plate or they will snap off. I haven't experienced loose magnets but I think that would cause it to always fail A bad battery or connections would show up at the tail light, it should stay nice and bright when you press start, it will dim a little say to about 80%

Seen on the other forum https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2Z6w_rBsf0

I think you were the first correct answer.. No the resistance will just tell you if it’s shorted or open. The sensors are very simple, just a coil of wire wound over a small magnet, as the teeth of the wheel pass it creates a ripple in the magnetic field generating an AC signal in the coil. I measure the gap by sticking a blob of JBQuick on the tip of the sensor, bolt it in until set then take it out and measure, it won’t stick to the oily phonic wheel. Don't pay $200 for the part when it breaks I suggest you have one on hand from the source Antmanbee gave me. http://www.miparts.com/detail/rpm-sensor-engine-management_15598#.WsC7rSMZNBz http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=19514&page=2

I’d love to roll up for Sunday coffee on one of those 500 singles Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Most of the people in BC live near the border, it's not a big deal to slip across and take advantage of the lower postal rates and skip customs duty. There are several companies in Blaine that set up business especially. At the Border Mail is one I use because if there's a lineup I can walk across, yes I do check in

The poster did say he has a dedacated headlight circuit so little Voltage drop in the original headlight wires. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I’m not coming over there, you come here LOL Kiwi_roy Griso 1100, 72 Eldorado Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think drilling s 3/8 hole in each puck gives it more travel so to speak, instead of squishing to fill the available space it has somewhere to go. I guess someone would have to try it out with a large torque wrench to prove it one way or another, see how much travel is available without/with holes. I do know the first ride on my Griso made me think there was something seriously wrong when compared to the VII, you don't ride that at walking speed without feathering the clutch.

I hate it when I come back to my bike and theres naked women draped all over it. I may have to get a different brand.

I must have read the same article on drilling the pucks, I did mine early on, 5 years and about 30k later they still looked fine. Rubber is non compressible

Bbolasaz, I think you summarized both systems very well. My 2001 of course had the early wiring and never suffered from Startus Interuptus but I could never get the regulator to work reliably until I fitted an after market regulator without the Voltage sense. What I would suggest with the 2004 wiring would be to feed the Start relay 30 from the headlight 30 next door, this would give improved starting as Fuse 5 feeds the headlight relay direct from the batery, not through the switch. Then to deal with the headlight relay The headlight relay coil 85 & 86 could then be wired between the ignition switch and the solenoid coil so when the key is turned on the relay closes, the 100 mA the coil draws would have no effect on the solenoid. When the start button is pressed the start relay puts 12 Volts onto the solenoid so now it bangs in. The headlight relay coil has 12 Volts at both ends so it drops out until cranking is over. Note: none of the relay Normally closed contacts are used, these are not rated as highly as the Normally Open ones, I have always suspected they are the main cause of erratic voltage reference on the earlier bikes. BTW I first became aware of the ignition switch problem when my bike started to run really rough, when I measured the switch it was over 18 Ohms, a 2004 would have long quit cranking at

Bbolesaz, Do you think the later wire with the start relay through the switch is more reliable? I always felt the earlier wiring was better for starting, for Voltage regulation not so much. I don't want to suggest something weird.

Marty, that 0.3 Ohms you read is the two coils to chassis a 1.05 Ohm direct to chassis and 0.25 in series with the starter winding to chassis. Where we get all the problems is from battery + to the relay terminal 30, that goes through the ignition switch on your 04, if you clean the switch every year or so it should be ok. I will sketch out how you can re-wire the later bike relays to avoid the ignition switch

The solenoid in the starter has two coils a high current one I call the pull in coil that will draw 40 Amps A low current one I call the hold in coil that draws about 10 Amps If the resistance through the ignition switch is too high the solenoid will not draw enough current and therefore not be strong enough to engage the motor pinion with the ring gear all you will hear is a quiet click. For example the switch might measure 0.5 Ohms so the coils pull 24 Amps, this still might not be quite enough to engage the gears (it's only half as strong as it should be) but too much for the fuse which will pop after a few seconds. As soon as the solenoid can close the main contacts the current through the Pull in coil drops to zero. The early VII (200, 2001) start relays were not wired through the ignition switch, they never had a problem engaging and cranking the starter but almost every other modern Guzzi is cursed. I think the VIIs switched over in late 2002 to run through the ignition switch. If you clean the switch it will improve for a while but the long term solution is to power the start relay direct from the battery through a fuse, unfortunately this means you also have to make other arrangements for the headlight relay if you want to turn it off while cranking, the easy way is leave it on. If your bike is having trouble cranking or blowing fuses try running a #18 hot wire from the solenoid spade connector to touch on battery positive CAUTION make sure it's out of gear and pull the clutch for good measure, I don't want to be accused of launching your bike. This will prove that the battery and starter are up to the task. It may seem weird but the more current the solenoid draws the less stress is placed on the fuse, this is because it accomplishes the task much quicker (more current but for much less time), the solenoid on the new to me 07 Griso now operates 3 x as fast as it did before, all I did was beef up the solenoid wire.

Docc said "So it can be said that when the battery is fully charged the charging Voltage is the same but the regulator is allowing less current through" Not exactly, it wont let anything through until the Voltage drops below ~ 13.8, then it puts maximum current through again until it goes above 13.8 It has no way of limiting the current. Think of a 50 gallon drum with a 1" hole in the bottom and you are topping it up with a fire hose and the valve is either fully closed or 100% open.

When the regulator turns On the current flows for one complete half cycle, it is only limited to what the alternator can put out. I have wondered if this is what causes the 30 Amp fuse holder to fail. Most other bikes use a shunt regulator that shorts out the alternator thus removing the supply.

Sorry I can't post the schematic from here. If anyone has it available this is how I understand the operation of the light. (I have the zenner diodes drawn backwards, Z2 just stops the Voltage on Q3 from going too high or low and damaging the transistor) Q3 turns on the light determined by the Voltage on the 0.5 microfarad capacitor, when it's positive the light turns On. if it's negative or zero it will turn Off. The Voltage reference from the headlight circuit tries to charge the capacitor in the positive direction through the 390k resistor and the diodes D6/D7 try to drive it negative through the 220k to turn the light Off. I may be wrong but if you look at the curves I show on the RH side the top one shows a series of half wave pulses but below it shows another curve with one pulse missing. This missing pulse is when the battery is up to setpoint. the SCR doesn't fire so this means the alternator is not grounded and the potential goes strongly negative, perhaps 40 - 60 Volts discharging the 0.5 capacitor and turning the light Off. At idle the regulator is only skipping the odd pulse because the alternator output is much lower, it's still charging most of the time. There are 14 coils in the alternator so at idle it's putting out 14 x 1000 RPM or 233 Hz IMHO the light is pretty useless, if you blow a headlight fuse you loose power on the charge lamp so of course it will be off. With after market headlight relays you lose the Voltage drop through the headl9ight circuit so it stands to reason the battery won't charge as high, about 0.6 Volts. The bulb is really a separate function from the regulator, it can fail without effecting charging.

Marty, I believe your 2003 will be wired differently from Cash1000s 2001 Instead of the headlight current flowing through two relays in series it will have the Start relay N/C contact 87a feeding the coil of the headlight relay not the 30 contact (100 milliamps vs 4-5 Amps) The Start relay 30 contact will be fed from the ignition switch rather than direct from the battery through a fuse. The easy way to confirm which you have is pullout the start relay and see if the 30 contact is alive with the key Off. Each way has it's merits, the 2001 will never suffer from Startus Interuptus but charging is more flakey unless you have an after market direct connect regulator. The 2003 will eventually suffer from SI through too much Voltage drop. The starter solenoid would like to inrush 40 Amps or more, the circuit resistance needs to be Excessive resistance is what causes almost all modern Guzzis to fail to crank.

Sorry, if someone wants to tidy this entry up , send me a PM and I will delete this post later Normally you are looking at $200 for these simple sensors. $10 is about right for a magnet with a coil wrapped around it IMHO Antmanbee gave me another source http://www.miparts.com/detail/rpm-sensor-engine-management_15598#.WotM7qinGUm