Kiwi_Roy

The horn wouldn't be able to drop the Voltage unless there was some serious resistance in the circuit. The battery should be able to put out 200 Amps while cranking, you re not going to pull that down through the 15 Amp circuit fuse. Sometimes the horn goes, don't you think its more likely an intermittent bad contact but what do I know?

I went with Knight Design for the new to me Griso. Like Knight and day if you pardon the pun. http://www.knightdesignllc.com Look at a lowered toe peg for the rear brake as well, the gear perl can be adjusted down.

The early VII had the first two relays in series Start & Headlight so your lights will also be flakey. The Horns, Tach and Voltage regulator are fed from the headlight circuit also, so your charging and lights will be flakey as well. I suggest you measure the Voltage while you try the horn, I'm fairly certain you are loosing Voltage at the start relay. The horns put quite a load on the circuit exposing any weak connections. The brake lights will also load down the circuit. One place you can easily measure the Voltage is at the red/black wire going to the Voltage regulator male/female plug. Connect your multimeter or a test lamp to the socket and chassis while you try the horns. The Normally Closed contact 87A of the Start relay is not as robust as a Normally Open contact. the Voltage should stay at 12 Volts while the horns are sounding. Make sure you re-connect the regulator afterwards or the result will be a flat battery. (I'm assuming you have the OEM Voltage regulator) http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/schematics/1999_V11_sport.gif Look at the red wire going to the right most wire of the Voltage regulator, trace it backwards to see all the things it effects. Trace the branch up to the source, Headlight Relay and across to the Start Relay, fuse 5 and battery. Look at the relay bases carefully, I have seen it where the contact was pushed out the back and just making contact by the spring in the wire Wrap a tiny wire around the relay pins so you can measure the Voltage coming out, concentrate on 30, 87 & 87A The spade contacts can be removed from the relay bases and tightened, they are released by a sliver of metal poked into the little cut out in the socket hole. |-----------| |----__----| pardon the crude sketch ^-------- contact release When the rev counter is not working the battery will be going flat so it's cutting out on low Voltage, hold your hand in front of the headlight, you will find that out also, you must get that sorted, again I'm assuming OEM Voltage reg. Did you apply Vaseline to the battery terminals, if not scrape them clean again and apply some. Don't give up until you can sound the horns every time then like Moto Fugazfi I suggest you fit a pair of good cheap Italian Fiaam Freeway Blasters with their own dedicated relay fed directly from the battery through #14 wire and a fuse. Route one of the original horn wire pairs to pick up the horn relay coil. Make sure the Fiaams are self draining or a few drops of water will damp them down to a squeak until they dry out, ask me how I know. When you find the source of the horn problem the charging and lights will work better also.

So cold, how can you be so cruel, my Guzzis are all bundled up under a nice cover in underground garage. Sent from my shoe phone!

I know you are but they were preceded by the P8, many things are the same. I have never seen a manual for a later one but Cliff Jefferies has a good explanation on his MyECU site

The earlier P8 ECUs had a light that would flash a code to tell you what was wrong but the code would clear itself as soon as you turned the key off. Early Guzzis like the 96 1100i had the light on the dash, my EV had the light under the seat but I couldn't get it to flash even when I created one of the faults listed. http://www.dpguzzi.com/efiman.pdf find the codes on page 23, 24 This manual is very informative, the sensor and pump information is identical to the later ECUs like you have. I have never seen a manual for the later ECUs I have never measured the drain to pin 17, I'd be surprised to see it more than a few microamps, may be just to retain a memory or something, I have no clue. Since you are curious why not measure it and let us know, I don't have one to measure at the moment. First of all you need to check your meter will measure milliamps, the chances are the milliamp fuse is blown and it will read zero fooling you into thinking there is no drain Take a high value resistor like 1K Ohms and measure the current in series across a battery If your meter fuse is blown put the resistor in series with pin 17 of the ECU and see if you can measure any Voltage drop across the resistor. I suggested a 1 K resister because it's a common value but whatever you have handy 220 - 10k will do just as well I sometimes suggest using a 12 Volt LED to find a parasitic drain, they will light up at BTW, the later direct connect regulators draw a small current, I measured 0.3 mA A GPS base for some reason will flatten the battery even if the unit is not plugged in

Here is a typical Guzzi schematic, start from the solenoid coil and trace the current path backwards. through the relay 30-87 to fuse 3, all the way across to the ignition switch through a couple of connectors then back again to get to the battery. what chance have you to get 40 Amps through all that spaghetti? http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/schematics/2000_Bassa.gif Guzzi skimp on the wire gauge, I don't believe they know how much current the solenoid pulls or they would fix the problem. I recently purchased an 07 Griso, it has a direct connection from the battery to the start relay through just a fuse but then they used a tiny wire (looks about 20 or 22 gauge) from the relay to the solenoid, I calculated it would lose 1.8 Volts. Just increasing the wire size caused the time it takes to engage to drop to 1/4 what it was. If you are interested at all take a look at the diagram I posted 2 back, the waveform at the bottom "current through 0.25 Ohm coil" On the Griso this peak dropped from 50 milliseconds to 15 just by going up to an 18 gauge wire The later Grisos reverted back to running through the ignition switch Note also the Guzzi schematic doesn't even show the coil that does the lion's share of the work, refer to my Valeo starter sketch, the 0.25 Ohm coil. The relay bbolesaz shows in post No 5 takes care of all the Voltage drop, I'm sure that works like a hot damn but there are other fixes you can do without adding a relay. Of course the best wiring in the world won't help if the magnets come loose.

No run a temporary wire from the spade connector on the starter solenoid, make sure the bike is in neutral, pull the clutch and touch the other end of wire to battery +, if it spins over the starter is ok. If it doesn't spin clean the battery terminals and try again. You will get quite a spark as you do this, that's the energy stored in the solenoid, The next step would be to measure the battery Voltage while you try to start, measure it from battery + to the chassis ,if it drops low then try from battery negative to chassis (this checks the battery ground) The starter solenoid would like to draw 40 Amps so it needs a good supply, later bikes run it through the ignition switch which is not a good idea. I'm almost certain if you clean the ignition switch and lube it with fresh Vaseline it will start again. The switch is held onto the lock by two Phillips screws, look up from below. Pull the battery ground off while you do it, the back is held on by a couple of plastic clips then the white switch plate tilts out. On re-assembly fix the wires to the back cover so they don't flex at the solder joint and snap off. You probably wonder how a 15 Amp fuse can carry 40 Amps, it's only for a about 10 - 50 milliseconds while the solenoid is pulling in to engage the gear and close the main contacts. Once the gear is engaged the current diverts around the heavy current coil dropping to The strength of a solenoid is proportional to the number of turns on the coil x the current through it. Sorry, I keep revising this post to make it read better. Oops Docc beat me 2it Valeo Starter.pdf

The idea is to keep the Oxygen from the lead, I always apply the Vaseline first how I was taught 50 years ago. Yes any grease is an insulator but it squeezes out of the contact points, fills in the air space and prevents oxidation or other forms of corrosion. Sent from my shoe phone!

It's time! . . . to clean your battery terminals and apply a little grease. Anyone who knows me is sick of me going on about the importance of greasing the battery terminals. While your bike is parked for the winter the lead oxide is silently creeping in between the terminal and lug ready to make you think the battery is toast when you go to start next spring. Scrape the terminals now and apply some Vaseline give it a top up charge at the end of January and next spring thats what it will do, spring into life.

88 lb ft, ok, you can have a socket, I just use the wrench that came in the toolkit and jive it a good kick, I haven't had one work loose yet.

Shouldn't be so tight you need a socket, just saying.

When you first turn the key on does the pump run for a couple of seconds, it should every time. If not try adding a small 12 volt lamp across the coil of the ECU relay to see if it lights up, it should as long as the key is on. If you have a petcock fuse you could attach the lamp to that and chassis. If it doesn't light it might be the stand switch or one of the other interlocks is bad.

Any time the tach dies while riding you can be fairly certain the bike is not charging because they share the same power from headlight relay normally open contact via start relay normally closed contact. Head light relay goes Off, tacho dies, charging dies and a short while later the battery will be flat. More serious, you lose the brake light, drivers behind will get no warning you are going to stop. With the original wiring the headlight would also go off cutting the battery drain from around 9 Amps to about 4 but in daylight running you wouldn't notice the light had gone off. If the headlight wiring has been altered with additional relays it's possible the headlight is still On and draining the battery quite quickly, heated grips or other accessories will soon drain the battery When the charging dies why don't I get a charging light? Answer, because the charge light is also fed from the same circuit, in other words the charge light is next to useless (the oil pressure and the fuel level light are also useless at this point for the same reason) The tacho is acting as a No-charge warning. No tach = NO Charging, No warning lights. No Brake lights So do a little checking for us, look at the Voltage regulator and tell us what wires it has Is it a Ducati Energia with a black and white wire about 8" long terminating in a Male/Female connector? A pair of red wires terminating in one male pin? The regulator should also have a pair of yellow wires plugged into the loom please inspect the connections to look for any sign of blackening or other discolouration. What is the mileage on the bike? Does your bike have a Charge light You say the relays have been replaced, I assume with all 5 pin type. I have seen a couple of V11s where the relay socket looked ok but when the relays were inserted the pin pushed the connector out the back of the socket so it just made intermittent contact. poke a small pin or something into each socket to make sure they are fixed in place. (the 2 front relays in particular) Next time the tach goes off see if the horn works, it uses the same circuit (or it did when the bike left factory) The start Relay NC contact feeds the coil for the headlight relay, which feeds the tach. There are 3 idiot lights supplied by the headlight relay, consider using one of the 3 on a temporary basis to indicate Voltage is present e.g. the charge light will stay On if you ground the male pin where it plugs into the regulator's white wire (this will not effect charging at all but if it goes out you know the charging is off)

What else needs to be said? Works for me, too. b Rumoor is it will be north of Seattle

The green VII was my first Guzzi, I always thought I would never sell it then I got my old Eldorado project and the VII was relegated to the back row. Come time to ride to John Day for the eclipse I cranked it up again and soon decided I really don't feel comfortable on this thing so it's history, I rode the old California II instead, I really enjoyed owning such an iconic machine. GuzziMoto is right, the Griso is a lot more refined but that's what I need now at 72. I have set it up for touring with a GPS, Corbin seat with a rear hugger, it's a 2 Valve motor just like the VII, not for me the 4 valve with all the extra complication. If you see an old fart puttering along the road at speed limit it's probably me LOL Hopefully I will meet some of you at the national in Seattle next year.

Koenner, have you checked the main battery ground, it should be on a gearbox bolt. A V11 will crank over slowly if the main ground is loose and may catch fire. Measure the battery Voltage Positive to chassis while cranking then compare it to the Negative to chassis again while cranking (make sure the meter negative is on the chassis NOT battery negative (the test negative to chassis is testing the battery ground and should be just a fraction of a Volt) You can check the switch contact resistance from under the seat without removing the switch. Look back up the thread for my sketch "Test Point Layout" Is your new regulator a Ducati Energy or an after market one , make and model? the direct connected type draw a little current with the key Off but not enough to flatten the battery in a week or two. I put a switch in mine then forgot to turn it back On resulting in a flat battery You really should get rid of the extra switch and solve the leakage problem To find the electrical leakage connect a 12V LED or small incandescent lamp in series with the positive battery leads then pull each fuse and relay in turn until the light goes Off. A 12V LED is far more sensitive for this it only needs a milliamp to light and is safe from overcurrent, Trying to do this with a digital multimeter will result in tears, the meter internal fuse will blow, then you will have zero leakage and a useless milliamp range.

I'm shocked No ones mentioned a 2 valve Griso Sent from my shoe phone!

I'm with Scud but it might also be a weak spark, first of all with your multimeter measure Ohms from each plug cap to chassis, the reading should be the same on both sides, report back. Make sure you don't touch the meter probe tip it might confuse your body reading with the coil spark lead reading

If I recall correctly the Vincent 500 singles were the Comet and the rare Grey Flash a racing model. I owned a Comet as an apprentice, it was rooted when I got it and barely running when my Brother sold it to a mate for $500 around 1970 The fork bushes suffered from electrolysis which chewed the shafts away, and the cams and followers would wear like crazy make the worst Guzzi flat tappets look pristine by comparison I did enjoy riding it though I must say. The new owner pulled it to bits and it was still that way last I heard. The forks had a way of changing the rake for a sidecar, you could flip it over in seconds Both wheels remove without the use of tools apart from something to remove the chain link, the rear allowed for a different sprocket by flipping it. The tool tray slides under the seat, I remember hitting a large bump one night and the tray tore out scattering tools in the dark. Pin striping on the tank was real Gold leaf, Prince of Darkness electrics. My older Brother refused to sell me his Rapide, figured I would kill myself, probably right.

Extend the intakes by the equivalent of the original intake rubbers you will find it improved mid range power over just the bare K&Ns Sent from my shoe phone!

Only by looking at the pictures, they look identical. 2007 Griso to 2001 VII Sport but that could be a computer thing. I don't think I have a VII footpeg but I will look. I believe the Griso was more severe than the VII Update Actually the part numbers are quite different why don't you ask?

I just put a set on my Griso, wow what a difference 1-3/8 makes, I went with black to match the bike, I think silver would be better for a VII They come in two tread patterns, I went with Sitetrax The pegs only come in 1" (25mm) for a VII Sport but I think you will be surprised how much lower they feel $129.99 http://www.knightdesignllc.com/Products/Motorcycle/Motorcycle-Makes.html

Sorry I got called way in the middle of posting Very easy to sandwich an aluminum plate say 1/2" thick between the regulator and tank, run a 1/2" or 5/16" line from there over to the pump suction. Before I sold mine I added an internal pipe from the regulator return to the Left Hand side of the tank so in theory when you run out, tip the bike over to get the fuel from right side to the left where the pump can grab it, then after circulating past the injectors it will get thrown back over to the left leaving the right hand side empty.

Thanks for that, I thought about using a resistor but what value? The incandescent starts out much less than 82 Ohms when its cold but ends up about 120 when hot, it sort of complements the thermistor that has the opposite characteristic. I suspect if you were to set yours up beside the OEM it would react a bit slower at first with less current to heat the thermistor initially but it will end up hotter. with a brighter lamp. You seem to have lucked into the right combination, the main thing it works