Kiwi_Roy

Here's the schematic http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/schematics/1999_V11_sport.gif A Red / Black goes to one side of both coils, this is + 12 Volts straight from the Power relay, it also feeds both injectors and the pump. A Green wire goes from one coil to the ECU connector pin 20 A Green/Black from the other coil to the ECU connector pin 14 These pins are only held to ground (chassis) for a split second each cycle Pins 23 and 24 are connected by a black wire to battery Negative for this purpose. I'm guessing you have a short on one of the wires holding the coil grounded either that or a bad ECU If you unplug the ECU and turn the key On you should measure +12 on both pins and the coil shouldn't show any sign of heat because there should be no current flowing in it. Looking at my drawing V11 Sport ECU Test points I see the resistance of each coil I measured at 0.7 Ohms so you can see it will get hot quickly with 17 Amps flowing continuously. Using your Ohmeter measure from the 87 socket of relay 5 to 20 and 14 of the ECU socket, should see 0.7 in both cases. Send me a PM with your e-mail address and I will send you the drawing.

You have never rid a real Guzzi til you've rid a loop There's nothing like barreling along at 100 mph then realizing you need to stop. But referring to them in the same breath as old Harleys That's fighting talk

The spring winds it back to the closed throttle position.

It will not hurt to leave it loose both mine were as well but it can't fall out, held in bug gravity. It's a thermistor normay kept cool by the fuel. When the fu level drops it rapidly heats up becoming lower and lower in resistance until the lamp turns on. If you look closely you will see tiny slots which allow the fuel in and out but won't allow a flame to pass if it burns out. Evr. Sent from my shoe phone!

Resistor leads were a problem on my EV, they opened up at the coil end causing a bad miss under acceleration. Check your leads and coils by measuring the resistance from plug cap to chassis, should be identical on both sides, about 8k I think. Sent from my shoe phone!

Sold it Actually last Saturday I put 3 Guzzis up for sale the greenie California II and Latio, guy and his wife came by and bought all three. I now have 07 Greaso and my old 72 Eldorado. I will pop in now and then to keep an eye on you guys. Sent from my shoe phone!

So stepping back a bit, Is the fuel pump re-starting when the bike cranks over? Do you have the correct plug lead on each cylinder? Have you confirmed you have about 45 psi on the injectors while cranking? With a timing light I think you should see a timing mark on the flywheel under the rubber plug.

See previous post That seems to rule out that possibility then.

How do you check for that? Obviously can only happen if you've had the cogs out Sent from my shoe phone!

You'll have to ask Luigi that, there's nothing wrong with single phase, many other motorcycles use it also including some Harleys. I think 3 phase is probably the most efficient use of space but don't quote me. Three phase certainly leads to a much smoother DC.

The diodes inside the regulator are quite large but the solder holding the lead on melts letting go then it starts arcing. The first one I was able to re-solder and it operated for another couple of years The 30 amp fuses don't blow, they heat up and melt the plastic because of contact resistance in the fuse holder.

The regulator has very little internal resistance, just 2 SCRs and 2 diodes in a bridge, for a half cycle the circuit is Alternator coil, yellow wire, diode, red wire, battery +, battery -, chassis, regulator case, SCR, other yellow back to the other end of the coils We know that when spinning the alternator open circuit can easily reach 80 Volts I think the limiting factor current wise is the inductive reactance of the windings.

Don't forget that part of the cycle the alternator is putting out less than the battery Voltage so there is no current flowing the 350 Watts is the average Wattage, I suspect the peak is 40 Amps or more, that's whats so hard on the fuse holder. "Current wouldn't be the problem anyway. The voltage is the problem. Above 14V it will severly start gasing, running at a high risk to relieve the pressure and to dry out (call it ageing). So you better keep the voltage below 14V (13.8 says the battery's label). That just a side note." The regulators I have pulled apart have all been set at 13.8 Volts, the problem is it doesn't measure the battery at the terminals it measures 13.8 downstream of the headlight relay so the poor battery has to put out well over 14 Volts before the regulator is happy. (unless you have added headlight relays direct from the battery) It's easy to check the Voltage drop, measure from the battery Positive terminal to the black wire at the regulator (don't need the bike running for this) My bike measured anything from 0.5 to 1 Volt, it's an 01 with two relay contacts in series with the headlight. Reseat the Start and Headlight relays and it drops back down to ~0.5 Volts I decided this was too flakey for me and fitted a direct connect style regulator Remember the regulator doesn't set the battery Voltage, it sets the Voltage between the black wire and its case, it does a great job of setting the headlight Voltage, not so great at setting the battery Voltage. I mentioned after market headlight relays, they divert the current from the OEM headlight relay, with very little current the Voltage drop is near zero, that's Ohms Law I think this is an interesting discussion, there's bugger all else happening at the moment

As Guzzi3Go says If the regulator thinks the battery is at 13 Volts when in fact it's much higher it will just keep pumping the Amps to it. The Voltage reference is what lets the regulator down, too much Voltage across the headlight relay. The Voltage drop in the headlight circuit should normally be ~0.5 Volts but I have seen mine over 1 Volt after sitting all winter, just caused by resistance in the relay contacts. I have pulled several regulators apart and found the leads melted off the diodes with signs of arcing.

Suppose you have a battery half charged. If you apply a Voltage and ramp it slowly up the current will remain at zero until the Voltage reaches 13 or so Volts 13.5 might cause 1 amp to flow but 14 Volts will cause a lot more than 2 14.5 will cause several times the current than 13.5, that's what I meant by exponential. My terminology might not be scientifically correct but then I'm not a scientist I'm a humble journeyman with only 50 years of gathered experience. Sorry

Roy, what I know is that a MOSFET might theoretically be switchable from On to Off whenever some circuit wants it, differently to Tyristors (SCRs), but practically there's no way to do it. While the RDS(on) (switched fully On) of a MOSFET is rather low, its resistance when switched Off naturally is rather high. Now guess what happens when you try to switch Off a MOSFET under high loads/currents, means rise the resistance from zero to unlimited at maybe 30 Amps. As said above, theoretically this might be possible, practically it usually leads to sudden smell and smoke. Then switching under load is also a bad idea when you have to reach certain EMC goals. These usually are not negotiable. Don't know how it is with computers, vehicle electronics are always build on the lowest possible edge, that means the smallest and cheapest parts available, no reserves to fool with. Ahh, don't tell the manufacturers of Variable speed drives that MOSFETs aren't switchable, they do it all the time at about 20 KHz, before that they used to switch SCRs by reducing the current to zero so they turned off. Having said that I do agree the manufacturers of simple Voltage regulators probably don't spend too much on the hardware. I was an apprentice when the first SCR based variable speed drives came out and I've taken a keen interest in the technology ever since. Before I got into Guzzi the majority of modern motorcycle regulators were shunt type 3 phase units with SCRs to shunt out the coils, I imagine they have been replaced by MOSFETs or something else by now.

I think I posted it somewhere else. I had the tank off the other day and looking at the fuel return to the RH side of the tank (pressure relief valve) I took an L shaped length of automotive brake pipe, 5/16" I think and fastened it into the return valve so it squirts the returning fuel over the hump to the LH side. I figure now if I run out on the left I can tip the bike over so the trapped fuel runs from Right to Left where the pump can grab it.

Sorry, it may be open to interpretation but the Ducati Energia active components (Silicon Controlled Rectifiers) are connected in series with the alternator to battery passing every bit of current the alternator can produce, they open like a light switch when the battery Voltage is sufficient allowing the alternator Voltage to go to 60 + Volts, They are connected in a classic bridge with 2 diodes and 2 SCRs. Once turned On the SCR can only turn off at the end of the current cycle, The battery acts like a large capacitor to smooth out the ripples. I think you may be confusing the regulator with a series linear one where a transistor is turned on more or less to pass current like a variable resistor (producing heat) SCRs are either On or Off, nothing in between A shunt regulator typically has 4 or 6 diodes connected in a bridge with SCRs across the windings to short them out when the battery has enough Voltage The Shindengen probably uses MOSFET transistors which can be turned from full On to Full Off off mid cycle like the switch mode regulator in a computer I suspect the Electrosports are more like the Shindengen ones with MOSFET transistors rather than SCRs as the active component, they wouldn't tell me when I asked. MOSFETs are more efficient than SCRs that have been around much longer.

The regulator sets the Voltage between the black wire and the case to 13.8 Volts. So just suppose the regulator is not grounded properly and the case is 1 Volt above chassis, then the regulator is set at 13.8 in relation to the case but 14.8 in relation to chassis. Years ago I took the time to pull a few regulators apart and draw out the internal circuit, I used to have it posted here but I can send you a copy if you PM me with your e-mail addy IMHO the regulator is a good design but it's let down badly by the Guzzi wiring. The usual fault is one of the diodes overheats and the wire melts off. I think this is a result of the flakey Voltage reference. If you increase the Voltage to a battery the current goes up exponentially.

When it's charging it puts out heat Example 10 A @ 16 V, some of the current will be out of phase but I won't make my head hurt trying to figure that out. Sent from my shoe phone!

The original Ducati Energia is a series type also. BTW shorting out the alternator doesn't create at much heat as you might think since the Volts are low Watts =V*A The worst thing you can do is only half short it, then you get high Volts and high Amps as a Goldwing owner may know. I heard those SH775s were good

I have been suggesting instead of using copper wire and lugs against aluminium regulator and engine case a simple strip of say 16 gauge Aluminium with a hole in each end. This could easily be bent to sit nicely against the frame. I would still use some form of grease between the parts.

You must be coming from a Suzuki Intruder, those guys loved their Magic Star Washers HaHa The problem with the ESR525, if I'm not mistaken it still relies on the flakey Voltage Reference I think it needs to be grounded also.

Bbolesaz said During a night ride the lights got extra bright on a number of occasions I'm a little puzzled as the Voltage reference is taken from the headlight circuit after the relay, it should be quite stable even if the battery isn't Has your bike been modified with headlight relays fed direct from the battery? Pulled the tank to have a look at the regualtor wiring. There was only one (I assume the stock) ground on the regulator bolt. But the wiring has no sign of overheat. So, I'm thinking I need a new regulator. Should I go stock or Electrosport ? The normal path is through the chassis to regulator case, if it has to rely on that long wire all the way back to battery Negative you will lose some Voltage. I would try adding a ground it may solve your problem perhaps it has an intermittent good connection causing the lights to go brighter. You could also try a wire direct from the battery to the regulators Black wire thus eliminating the normal Voltage reference to see if that regulates better but you won't be able to leave it that way (I have used that trick a couple of times on a trip to fix a non charging bike) I went with a direct connected Electrosport ESR510 to eliminate the flakey headlight circuit voltage reference The early ones like my 2001 were particularly bad with 2 relays in series, anything from 0.5 - 1.5 Volt You can measure that directly from Battery + to the regulators black wire, measure it first then try re-seating the headlight and start relays. I now have to disconnect the battery over winter because the Electrosport has a small current drain. Woe betide if I forget to hook it back up, next thing I have a flat battery. Corytrevor is correct there is no need for a supplemental ground with most after-market regulators as the internal components are connected to a dedicated ground wire not the case. BTW our spine frames share charging with the EVs, Jackals etc

Before removing the switch deaden the wiring by removing the battery Negative lead.